The Steel Guitar Forum

Richard B.,

I have been rather vague on one or two issues. This I'll admit openly.
One of the issues back in the thread involves my mentioning of an early "brass-bodied" guitar. Obviously, the brass guitar (used as a dobro), would not inspire musicians to call it a steel guitar. I waited patiently for a member of this forum to remind me, by declaring, (Oh, but there was a steel guitar.) Yes, I remember what appeared to be an all steel, nickel plated steel guitar. I knew a family who owned such a guitar, years ago. I only hope that I'm correct in assuming, that it was in fact a nickel plated steel guitar, which was played in traditional fashion, or as a "Dobro". This certainly would account for the misnomer, that has carried well through the years. As far as suggesting that it is played with metal picks... I personally prefer not using them. I watched a "steel" guitarist one evening on set, as he played his instrument with a beer bottle for a bar. He then moved on to using the brim of a "cowboy's" hat.

Richard, have you made any new modifications of late, on your steel guitar? I've almost completed building a lightweight, "single ten string." It's the cutest little instrument, that even a child could easily carry. The "base" is detachable, simply by removing two wing nuts. It's tuned to the standard C6th tuning, featuring no pedals or knee levers. I anticipate having a lot of enjoyment, by having to cope without all the well known advantages, seen and heard, in the standard C6th setup. All of the measurements, such as bridge to bridge, are standardized.

Bill H.

Bill,
The only mods I've done lately are to my ZB. I've made a contraption to greatly reduce the pressure needed to operate the knee lever lowers, whilst still retaining minimum movement of the levers.
R B.

Bill, if you want to see a photo of my ZB, go to the British steelies society site, and click on BSS Merchandise.

Bill: The OED has the use of misnomered as an adjective starting in 1740. I think you are on good ground.
I just call it a pedal steel. Nobody knows what I am talking about any way, and adding guitar to the name doesn't help.
Steve Bailey

It's played with a STEEL BAR! Hence its name. HJ

Dr. Jeffreys,

Actually, the so-called steel bar is merely PIG Iron basically, that has been subjected to the blast furnace to produce refined steel. However, the term "steel bar" of choice is a misnomer, in that good bars are made from alloys. Nickel is the metal of choice to fuse together with refined steel to produce a nonmagnetic, and nonrusting bar. There are many grades of stainless, ranging from poor to excellent. I personally reject any material that adheres to a common magnet. A friend gave me a bar back in the 70's made from monel metal. It is an alloy of copper and nickel. (not "steel")

Dr.Jeffreys, have you seen Alvino Rey recently? I seem to remember that you mentioned his name in an earlier thread.

Bill H.

Steve B,

I feel honored that you would provide me with the input, which significantly frees me from ridicule, for trying to exercise the use of vocabulary that may be uncommonly used here, on this forum. Thanks for the written information. I appreciate your writing abilities. May I hear from you again?

Bill H.
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 01 February 2004 at 02:18 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 01 February 2004 at 03:58 AM.]</p></FONT>

I see Recluse has been to the OED
Office of Education amd Denoument
And so it ends here.

Bill, will you be strangling the neighborhood cats for strings for your steel-less Horizontal Hawaiian Harp??

The gnomes where here, but we missed them. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 31 January 2004 at 02:45 PM.]</p></FONT>

Bill - Right with the bars. I use a plastic bar sometimes, depending on what instrument(s) I'm blending with. I have not talked to Alvino in a coupla months. Last time, he was working on his computer; not practicing steel much, but playing a good bit on the electric Sp. and his nylon-string guitar. HJ

David L.D.,

Thanks for the amusement offered in your last reply, and for the ensuing laughter, created from your comments. My response to your question, which pertains to an alternate means, of finding materials, which would be suitable to replace rusty steel wire strings, commonly used on "steel" guitars, is as such. I haven't considered a cat's whiskers as a possible last resort. However, I did notice a big black cat the other day, with a tail as long as his body, making cross-references through this neighborhood, and cancelling future engagements, made earlier in the winter. No.. don't even think it, David. My wife and I have rescued many starving, and abandoned pets, and placed them where they have a better chance for survival.

More realistically, I have been experimenting of late, trying to conceive variations of replicating the sound of string pitch changes, by glissing over unspecified materials below the "bar".

Thanks again David, for your support of past, and present threads.

Bill H.

Bill: Though freeing you from ridicule, I must expose myself to the same. In the topic sentence,-is misnomered- is a transitive verb phrase in the past perfect tense, not an adjective as I hastily stated in your defense. I defend my self by stating that I haven't studied grammar in 35 years so the internal Warriner's is a little foxed.
Still a good word.

Steve Bailey

...there's no ridicule implied or intended in dicussing the fine points of grammar...

...I believe it's an intransitive verb phrase, as I pointed out earlier in this topic, as opposed to a transitive verb phrase...I see no direct object of an action in the phrase "the guitar is misnomered"..see link regarding transitive/instransitive verbs

...but of course, I've been wrong before...I did finally find a Websters source listing "misnomered" as an adjective, the Merriam Websters Online Dictionary...misnomered

...if you said "he played the misnomered guitar", the word would be used as an adjective...

...if you say "the guitar is misnomereed", or the converse interogative "is the guitar misnomered", the word is used in an intransitive verb phrase form...and I'm still not convinced that it is acceptable to use the word in a verb form, as I originally stated...

...the common usage of the word, especially in legal terms, is as a noun...

(of course, I direct these comments to the nomenclature of our instrument, to keep this on topic!)


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 01 February 2004 at 07:54 AM.]</p></FONT>

Steve B.,

I'm guessing that you may have guessed by now, that future postings will be presented as concise and simplified titles, which will eradicate unnecessary clamor.

Bill H.

A misnomered instrument with sustain and an associated copedent. Let it slide, Webster!

Hi Bill, I'm glad I can get you laughing.
I am glad you take care of cats too.
I have bad allergies to long hair cats, but short hairs are fine by me.
But cats do have a certain cool, many people could use a bit more of.

And for the records in NEVER use gut strings on my contrabass!

We need to find a good glasblower to makes some glass bars...
and maybe a whole glass acoustic steel guitar body too.

Hey guys,
aren't you afraid such preposterous perambulations about the suburbs of veracity and relevance may diminish the availability of actual 4th dimensional units to digitally stimulate the horizontal strained cables on the upper surface of your ...whatever you want to call it ?

My kids call it a dent in their inheritance.

Michael

Michael,

No Michael, there is nothing to fear, when a minimally applied exercise in vocabulary, contains only redeeming references. The affable approach, which has suggested that certain changes are possible, does not signify an attempt to place original concepts in jeopardy. I haven't called my steel guitar anything to date. I do however, enjoy mentioning that my 3rd string of the E9th neck, no longer breaks, due to the application of the "Lucky 7". The short pedals mounted slightly above and behind the ABC pedals, work like magic, while the front mounted fretboard has increased sight advantages, far beyond all expectations. Further, any detuning that may occur, due to physically distorting the cabinet, is easily managed by the use of what I call, the "Golo".

Michael, have you seen Winnie Winston in your travels? He is an authority on "What do you call it?"

Bill H.

I have a lap and a PSG.

The lap stands on it's legs and they are both made out of wood. I call both of them "steels".

Try explaining that to anyone!

The second you play Aloha Oe, EVERYONE knows what you mean, though.

Bill,

I agree that the PSG is not very "guitar like" when compared to it's 17th century spanish relative. But then again, neither is a fiesta red Fender Stratocaster with a floating tremelo bridge.

If the modern pedal steel guitar had just been invented one day out of the clear blue, it would seem a strange name to choose. It is such a unique instrument that a completely original name would be fitting. But because of it's slow evolution it is called a pedal steel guitar.

I will try my best to justify the name Pedal Steel Guitar word by word:

1. Pedal.

Well, I don't think you can disagree with THAT part of the name. Oh well, moving on.

2. Steel.

Today I went shopping for a pair of glasses, and overheard a salesperson explaining to another customer that quality glasses these days use space-age plastics for the lenses. I chuckled at the thought of my great grandchildren wearing "plastics" and "sunplastics" to correct their vision in the 22nd century.

Though "true" steel is not the substance used in quality modern tone bars, it WAS at one time, and that just happened to be the time that that name "steel guitar" came about and for some reason stuck, much like glass used to be the best material for making lenses, and we still say glasses.

Also, steel string Spanish guitars where not the norm when the Hawaiian guitar first came into existance in the late 19th century, and Hawaiian guitar was the first guitar family instrument that required metal strings to achive tone and sustain.

3. Guitar.

What defines a guitar? Is it the shape of the body and neck? The E,A,D,G,B,E tuning? The act of fretting the strings to the fingerboard? To justify the use of the name "guitar" with reference to the PSG, I will ask the following questions:

If a PSG is not a guitar because of it's non-guitar-like tuning, then is a guitar with the low E string dropped down to D not a guitar either? How about the five string open G tuning Kieth Richards uses? Also, if a diffeent tuning constitutes a different instrument, then a D-10 PSG would be a totally different instrument from a U-12 PSG.

If the shape and asthetics of the PSG makes it not a guitar, then is a Gibson Flying V a guitar? What about one of those keyless Stienberger guitars from the 80's?

Is a PSG not a guitar since you do not fret the string to the fingerboard? If that's the case, then a delta slide guitar is not a guitar either.

I geuss my point is that it IS completely different than a "standard" guitar, but it is still a member of the guitar family. An unconventional one, but still a member.

I vote we change it to the "Okie Organ".

Chris S.

P.S.
If everybody called a doubleneck steel a singleneck, would the steel guitar then be "MISNUMBERED"? <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Chris Scruggs on 02 February 2004 at 11:44 PM.]</p></FONT>

Chris S.,

I am very pleased to open my thread, to find that you had commented on what you, as an analogist, have thought, in regard to the underrated, and undervalued instrument that we play. The common Spanish guitar can be purchased for less than $ 100 at a tag sale, or from an individual who no longer wants to experience the frustration found in the process of learning to play the instrument. For those who have no idea of what a steel guitar is, in reality, they would be amazed to find that there is a world of difference in market values. Let it be known, that I'm not making references to collectible Spanish guitars, that have "increased" in value, according to price listings. I speak of the imported lots that quite often flood the music stores.
I wouldn't want to make any such analogies, linking my instrument to such simplistic workmanship found in much of the multi-assembled guitars hanging from, or on walls.

Bill H. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 03 February 2004 at 04:31 AM.]</p></FONT>

Huh?

I guess over here I am playing a

Fretless Hawaian Pedal-Harp...

This they can understand apparently.

It just keeps getting closer to something...
I just have no idea what!

Chris S.,

Could you explain the quizzical stance you've assumed, by resorting to brevity? I tried to be complimentary in my response after reading your very interesting input.

Bill H.

From this obscured vantage point his stance seemes to be :

Standing on his right foot, a Fender 1000 balanced on his nose and a pack-a-seat in each hand with an inverted banjo on his left toe.

But I could be mistaken.

"producing a wailng sound that is modulated by use of a foot pedal"

My cat produces wailing sounds which can be modulated by stepping on his tail (accidentally of course...)

Will somebody please straighten those Webster people out!!!<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 04 February 2004 at 12:19 PM.]</p></FONT>