Robert Randolph on Jay Leno Monday Night

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 27 Feb 2013 5:49 pm

jay....can i use the 'word' in regard to 'rap'?

....please?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 27 Feb 2013 6:05 pm

In my book, this performance in front of millions on major network TV has served to further reduce the likelihood, when I tell people that I play steel guitar, of having them ask me whether that's "that whiny country music thing"? Anything that breaks the stereotype of the instrument is a very good thing, IMO, as it allows the steel to be seen as an instrument as diverse at least as guitar, violin/fiddle, piano, etc., not bound by any particular style or musical genre. I don't like all the guitar music I hear, and I don't necessarily like all the steel music I hear but I'm sure glad that there are people who play these instruments in every genre; it gives the rest of us more freedom to be accepted for playing whatever we want to on our chosen instruments.

As an aspiring jazz steeler, I can't tell you how many times I've walked into a jazz club or other venue where there were jazz musicians and set up my steel only to have them expect me to play whiny, slidey, slurpy stuff and have very dim expectations of what I could do on the instrument. In such settings I make a point never to touch the E9 neck at all and, even when tuning or warming up, confine myself to a few C6 jazz runs, etc. Immediately the eyebrows go up. Because I know that the minute I play a country or (Heaven-forbid!) a Hawaiian lick, that's all it would take to confirm their worst stereotyped expectations of me and my instrument and I'd never get any credibility after that. As they say, you only get one chance to make a first impression.

The more jazz musicians who happen to catch Robert Randolph and the Slide Brothers on Leno, or who have been exposed to Paul Franklin's playing with Dire Straits, etc., the more their expectations are already changed by the time I walk into the club, and it benefits me directly even though what I play bears no relation at all to sacred steel. For me, it's all about busting stereotypes and creating a genre-free space for an instrument to inhabit. So bring it ON!!

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 27 Feb 2013 6:57 pm

I love the stereotype that the instrument has. I hope that it always keeps it's country music image. I love that "whiny" or "crying" sound that only a pedal steel guitar can make while under the hands of a skilled player. Mr. John Hughey was a MASTER at it. I love the old standard country music licks that the more "open-minded" (and that's a matter of opinion) seem to hate. I'm glad that the steel has such deep roots in country music because if it didn't, it would have developed a different sound and I wouldn't be playing it. If I'm on stage and the lead singer want's to try Mustang Sally or Sweet Home Alabama or a blues song or maybe a Gospel hymn, I'll play it and do my best. But when it comes to packing up, loading it in the truck, and pulling out the driveway, I'll be going to a country music gig. I'm country to the core, clean through. Country music is what I like, and it's what I want to play.

Mitch

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 27 Feb 2013 7:03 pm

Oh, for the record Mitch (and anyone else), I love John Hughey's playing and he was a dear friend. By no means do I "hate" country music or E9-type country steel guitar; I've happily played a lot of it over the years and still do, on occasion. My point is simply that I want to see steel guitar accepted as a "musical instrument", not only as a "country music instrument" so people can be accepted for playing anything they want to on it (as long as they do it well!), just like with piano, guitar, violin, or any other "mainstream" instrument. That's all.

Wally Pfeifer · Post by **Wally Pfeifer** » 27 Feb 2013 7:08 pm

Nick Reed,- considering your job at two different TV stations,- can you give us a clue as to why the programs like NCIS, NCIS-LA, The Good Wife, Person of Interest, Hawaii 5-0 and now Golden Boy have the music so LOUD that it drowns out all the dialogue. Several people have complained to the networks and have sent feedbacks but nothing is ever changed. What do you think we could do? Boycot the sponsors?
Thanks,
Wally

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 27 Feb 2013 9:29 pm

Some guys play steel on tv and some guys watch guys play steel on tv.

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 27 Feb 2013 10:24 pm

Jim Cohen wrote:Oh, for the record Mitch (and anyone else), I love John Hughey's playing and he was a dear friend. By no means do I "hate" country music or E9-type country steel guitar; I've happily played a lot of it over the years and still do, on occasion. My point is simply that I want to see steel guitar accepted as a "musical instrument", not only as a "country music instrument" so people can be accepted for playing anything they want to on it (as long as they do it well!), just like with piano, guitar, violin, or any other "mainstream" instrument. That's all.

I understand what you're saying, Jim.

The steel guitar can certainly handle any tune.

Mitch

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 27 Feb 2013 10:35 pm

Bob Hoffnar wrote:Some guys play steel on tv and some guys watch guys play steel on tv.

That's very true, Bob. I'd be willing to bet my Stetson that I'll never get the chance to play steel on national television. I'd also be willing to bet my Stetson that not doing so will ever worry me.

I'm at peace with myself, my fellow man, and with God. I'm very happy with where I am in life.

Mitch

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 27 Feb 2013 11:10 pm

ok...i'm having a weak remorseful moment. i want everyone (especially the slide bros.) to understand my snarky criticism is largely for fun and doesn't indicate disrespect for them personally or a put down of their talents. this forum is lots of fun for me and i say what i do with alot of love.
there are lots of examples of my style of playing over on the 'annoying troll' thread. you are welcome to go criticize my lame crap all you want. it happens to be what i do fairly naturally and it is what it is. we all honor our own god the way we see fit. and i'm a bit too lazy to ramp up my ability to anything amazing.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 27 Feb 2013 11:27 pm

Wally Pfeifer wrote: Nick Reed,- considering your job at two different TV stations,- can you give us a clue as to why the programs like NCIS, NCIS-LA, The Good Wife, Person of Interest, Hawaii 5-0 and now Golden Boy have the music so LOUD that it drowns out all the dialogue. Several people have complained to the networks and have sent feedbacks but nothing is ever changed. What do you think we could do? Boycot the sponsors?
Thanks,
Wally

Home TV sound systems vary quite a bit. On shows with a 5.1 soundtrack, sometimes the producers don't pay enough attention to the stereo or mono mixes. Some systems have a bass box, others are using a sound bar. Some people set up their living room with surround sound. Others just use the speakers in the TV set.

I'm sure that the music didn't drown out the dialogue in the production environment. They just never listened to it on a system like yours.

Jan Viljoen · Post by **Jan Viljoen** » 28 Feb 2013 12:23 am

I like Jim Cohen's approach. Advance the instrument!

My question though, do players of other instruments have the same problem? Do they have to promote their instruments to being played?

Are they satisfied with the TV exposure they get for their instruments? Examples, French horns, double basses, dulcimers, sitars, etc?
I must admit I don't know what the US status quo is regarding ordinary country or bluegrass instruments.

We, here in South Africa are so starved for country music on national TV, that any program we get to view, is a bonus. If it contains steel, it is a double bonus.

Fortunately there is You tube to sooth the hunger pains somewhat.

Steel on!

Jay Fagerlie · Post by **Jay Fagerlie** » 28 Feb 2013 12:47 am

Bud Angelotti wrote:
Wow, another RR topic that get's the blood pressure rising on some folks!!!
Why is that?
Jay - That is because some folks presume they can tell other folks what they are supposed to think. They take it past the point of opinion. It's as simple as that.
We can agree to disagree, but please don't tell me what I'm supposed to think. There are plenty of adjetives to describe that behavior.

Sorry Bud, I missed the part where someone told you what to think- where was that?

"Out of touch" = "not on the same wavelength" or at least that's how I take it-

I don't believe for a second it was a demeaning statement aimed at you or anyone else. You shouldn't have taken it that way.

So, can I be offended that you were offended?

It's about STEEL GUITAR!!!

IT'S ALL GOOD!!!

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 28 Feb 2013 4:47 am

"You shouldn't have taken it that way".
I'll take it anyway I want.
Is that ok with you ? Or am I supposed to think the way you want me to?

Jay Fagerlie · Post by **Jay Fagerlie** » 28 Feb 2013 4:53 am

Bud Angelotti wrote:"You shouldn't have taken it that way".
I'll take it anyway I want.
Is that ok with you ? Or am I supposed to think the way you want me to?

Well, you were supposed to, but I guess that just aint gonna work....

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 28 Feb 2013 4:56 am

Jay - Friend - I agree with you.

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 28 Feb 2013 5:37 am

More steel on TV ! More steel on TV ! More steel on TV ! More steel on TV !More steel on TV !......

......Steel on TV !! Rats, wrong guys...

More steel on TV ! More steel on TV ! More steel on TV ! More steel on TV !More steel on TV !.......

Edited to add

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 28 Feb 2013 6:34 am

Anybody know of a link to this performance that will play in Europe?

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 28 Feb 2013 7:20 am

Wow...I loved that performance!!

I loved seeing all of those steels on stage too.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 28 Feb 2013 9:00 am

Quite often, music is for the players. I've played with half a dozen steelers and no audience and it was wonderful. We sometimes forget that we actually play to satisfy something within ourselves, not to please a listener.

The climax of this tune, where all of the steels converge to that high note in rhythmic unison, sounded cool. I bet it felt incredible to be one of the players, experiencing the full impact as part of the ensemble. It probably more than made up for the frustration of the chaotic part of the tune.

But the bottom line here is that there was a steel guitar band on The Tonight Show. Now that's cool!

Jay Fagerlie · Post by **Jay Fagerlie** » 28 Feb 2013 9:51 am

I just watched that video yet again and have the same opinion.

It kicks butt.

Period.

I just read this great quote attributed to Beethoven:

"To play a wrong note is insignificant,
To play without passion is inexcusable"

Sums it up for me- for the genre, it really doesn't get any better than these guys...IMHO.

And I missed their show here by a week!!! I thought it was in March...I'm so bummed.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 28 Feb 2013 10:05 am

'to post without passion is inexcusable'

that's cosmic,jay. we must have been revisiting the song clip at exactly the same time. this time i dug the vocals and the groove...just not the everysteel shouting-at-once sound.

i'm getting new chemo now, how's your health my younger smarter brother?

Jay Fagerlie · Post by **Jay Fagerlie** » 28 Feb 2013 10:31 am

I'm good...the belt line is still increasing at an alarming rate...yikes!!! half my clothes do not fit anymore...

There is a lot of 'chattering' if you will in that video, I agree with Terry- a lot of talking going on.
But EVERY time I have listened to it, I come away being inspired and exited about music and especially about guitar....
It touches me in a good way...
the same way "Bitter They Are" by BE does...like a bunch of other music.

What more could someone want?

When are you going to be up for a visit?

j

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 28 Feb 2013 10:35 am

A Scottish friend of mine once told me that bagpipes were the missing link between noise and music.
But after listening to that clip from the Jay Leno show, I think we just discovered another link!

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 28 Feb 2013 11:36 am

Firstly, the use of quotes here does not indicate an attack on your person, your mind, your playing, your dog or your cow or your spurs or church or race or anything, it indicates you have summarized a certain position succinctly! Congratulations!

If the Pedal Steel is going to survive, we had better pray that new players come along and create new music with our instrument...

- Wally Moyer

If the steel guitar isn't used in more contemporary musical settings, it WILL become an antiquated, irrelevant instrument limited to a dwindling audience. The steel could become a throwback like the frailing banjo. But with its huge sonic range, and ability to use modern effects, it has far more potential to grow into music of the future.

- John McClung

This is where I go blank - I thought that the steel guitar WAS being using in many fascinating, diverse, and even... weird ways.

Mike Perlowin recently alerted me to the music of Ned Selfe, who isn't involved in our moist-leg club but plays steel in the service of some interesting music. As does, surely, Mr. Perlowin himself. And Susan Alcorn, Mr Cohen, a whole raft of people who are, right now, not later, using the sonic range, use of effects to play interesting, even powerful music. There's a steel guitarist named Greg Leisz who apparently hires a six-stringer named Bill Frisell to twank away on top of his foundations, though IMO they could use just a little twink of the animation of the big-network "sacred" steel club.

Pete Burak -

Just watched the vid. I thought that was great!!!... My brain heard four steels rippin' from start to finish on a song I've liked since jr high.
Those guys take no prisoners!!!
What's not to love!

Well, mostly, it was really dull music. I have this weird idea that if you're going to sing a song, you should try to find some sort of emotional connection to the lyrics. Why were this group of people singing a song by Greg Allman? About a girl....(?) They could have been singing the phone book. And unlike the originators, the Sacred Steelers don't play into and out of the key changes, just find a riff and beat it to death. Making faces, being "exciting" and "entertainers" is, in my experience, what people do when they can't play anything that will either pay them as well as they think they deserve, get them hot young nookie (surely no churchman would... oh no!) or get them attention.

We sometimes forget that we actually play to satisfy something within ourselves, not to please a listener.

- b0b

Whoa! Huh! I though it was all about succeeding, and entertaining, and hot youn... oh. So You won't be burning your Susan Alcorn CD's, getting a white suit and "learning" how to play one riff for ten minutes while executing an array of "entertainment faces?" But it's all about attention to the pedal steel! We could rig them to shoot flames! We could drop them off of skyscrapers and see how many people we kill!

Now, I don't watch television - that clip won't be having me calling Comcast, either - so it would be silly for me to call for "More Susan Alcorn on Jay Leno!" I wouldn't be watching it because Jay Leno is an ass, Susan Alcorn might do it, but they wouldn't like it - too many chords! Not enough faces! But it does raise the simple question, what is music for? What is it for for you, and do you shape what you play because of a belief that you either know or wish to control what music is to your (ahem - potential) listeners?

Now, what RR does is fine for him, and it's attracted him enough listeners and fans that he hasn't had to move off his starting peg. When I first read of him and heard him, Stevie Ray Vaughan had been his catalyst, and I read that he was listening to Coltrane, Miles, Duane... for whatever reasons, (success?) nothing seems to have taken hold. He's got his nitche, and that's fine. But they seem supremely, musically, phony to me. The "gospel" music in the "Blues Brothers" movies was a parody, and to become your own parody, yikes.

And to try to crawl under his tent - "Hey look at me girls! I'M a steeler too!" That's only going to work if you pursue it wholeheartedly - throw out your Buddy and Beethoven CD's, get that white suit, learn that leg-twirl thang - but the kind of skank you might catch with that honeypot (metaphorical skank...); though you might just look like an idiot, success would make you wish you had your mental standards back.

Mick Jagger quite openly sang "Country Honk" and "Faraway Eyes" and "Dead Flowers" in a exaggerated Texas Twang and he said he felt it wasn't insulting because there was a great strain of self-mocking, parodic behavior within the country tradition itself. Minnie Pearl, Buck Owens, Hee-Haw... I thought there was actually an uncomfortable tension at times between the "countrypolitan" strain and the darker, simpler stuff, but it was (luckily?) washed away in a tide of money. It's all good - if it gets you rich.

What is music for? I mean, I can hear far more interesting, greater and more important music being played on steel guitars anytime I want to, and I don't have to worship at the Altar of Buck or the "Sacred" Steel Church to do so. Performing backflips (watch it, Gramps) because a bunch of steels materialized before your eyes - on television - is telling alone, because only old people watch television anymore! Is a personal and social interest in promoting quality entirely out of the picture?

The Steel Guitar Forum

Robert Randolph on Jay Leno Monday Night

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Re: Music too loud

Pedal steel guitar as an instrument