The Steel Guitar Forum

How about Kika Kila, just to bring it full circle.

I for one like the "Qualifiers" like "pedal" "Lap" "Slide" "Hawaiian" "Dobro" etc.

I always ask band leaders, event organizers and record producers to specify what they want me to play. And it often becomes a "teaching moment" as I have opportunity to describe the differences in sound.

Dom

Dom Franco wrote:I for one like the "Qualifiers" like "pedal" "Lap" "Slide" "Hawaiian" "Dobro" etc.

How do you qualify the misnomer 'slide' in the context of labeling steel guitar?

If you're a steel player of any kind and someone says they need 'slide' guitar on something, i'd take that as them wanting a performance along the lines of regular guitar slide players (Allman, Cooder etc).

Kelly Joe Phelps plays lap-style but i'd never describe his sound as being steel guitar- it's slide guitar played horizontally! Or otherwise known as lap-slide guitar.

In my previous post I mentioned that it's all slide in one form or another (refering to pedal, non-pedal and bottleneck, etc)because after all, aren't we "sliding" the steel? In that sense, IMO, anything that slides falls under the umbrella of the term "slide."

I'm just sayin'

Mark Mansueto wrote:In my previous post I mentioned that it's all slide in one form or another (refering to pedal, non-pedal and bottleneck, etc)because after all, aren't we "sliding" the steel? In that sense, IMO, anything that slides falls under th
e umbrella of the term "slide."

I'm just sayin'

It's all about the context I guess

Mark Mansueto wrote:In my previous post I mentioned that it's all slide in one form or another (refering to pedal, non-pedal and bottleneck, etc)because after all, aren't we "sliding" the steel? In that sense, IMO, anything that slides falls under th
e umbrella of the term "slide."

I'm just sayin'

It's all about the context I guess

Premod got it !
just wear the t shirt

Hal doesn't want a non-pedal slide lap-steel:

I found the answer!!! Its been here the whole time:-)

I play steel guitar in various forms and consider each instrument and technique to be tools for expression. As far as describing the instrument I use the blanket term Steel Guitar but when communicating with artists, producers and such I specify or try to describe the various steel guitars and the type of voice they have.

One interesting thing to me is "Dobro". I own a Dobro brand dobro square neck and a national copy round neck with a Hawaiian nut. I use standard bluegrass G with the squareneck and a bluegrass tone bar. I use those techniques that "dobro" players use but if I were to tune it to C6th and use a bullet bar then I guess I wouldn't call it dobro playing. Just a destinction that I like to make to clarify what I'm doing I guess. As far as this forum is concerned "steel with out pedals" seems descriptive enough to help me find the info I need in that area.

Just my thoughts on that subject.

Historically, during the many years before the first pedal was installed, the instrument was identified only as a "steel", and the musician was a "steel player". When the name "Hawaiian steel" was occasionally used, it identified the music played, not the guitar.

The majority of players today began after the pedal steel was fully mainstream, so I suppose the many name designations in use today are necessary for identification and communication.

Ron Whitfield wrote:What's with the rediculous recent influx of misusing/abusing/ignoring/forgetting the simple time-honored term of STEEL GUITAR by some?

To me the term "Steel guitar" applies to a family of styles and instruments. However within the the family are a lot of disparate styles and instruments.

When I play Reso I rarely pick with my pinky but with PSG I pick with all 4 fingers and my thumb.

Newgrass style resophonic/Dobro players tend to make heavy use of hammer-on/pull-off technique with the bar. Most PSG players utilize hammer-ons and pull-offs far less.

With a PSG concurrently doing a raise and lower is pretty easy. With non-pedal I almost never see a player do a concurrent string-pull with one finger while doing a string-release with another finger. At best non-pedal players will use a bar-slant to realize this musical nuance.

In the world of tires: track slicks and agricultural herringbone-pattern tires are both tires but they are very so very different.

I do not see most of us as reinventing the wheel by using terms other than "steel guitar"; instead I see it as clarifying or being more specific about which form of the steel guitar we are discussing at a given moment in time.

I play my steel guitar with a steel and I play my slide guitar with a slide. I pick my Spanish guitar, often with a plectrum. Your pedal steel has both pedals and a steel and my amp and pickups determine the sound of my electric guitar. We all know what I'm talkng about. Language doesn't change by force or by willing it to change, it sure doesn't change by committee. Language is like Billy Gibbons: It changes when it wants to change.

Here's an additional can of worms for us to open up, since we might be running out of windmills to tilt against.

"Spanish" guitarists play either with a straight pick (plectrum) and/or the fingers of the right hand. This is called plectrum style or fingerstyle guitar.

But wait! There are 4-string guitars that are called plectrum guitars AND also tenor guitars, which are different instruments in and of themselves, depending on the tuning used and their scale lengths.

Madre de Dios!!

How does the poor, unsuspecting public ever know to which guitar the musician is referring when he says "hey, I'm a guitar picker."

This of course ignores the fact that steel guitarists codify our styles by what we do or don't do with our feet, whilst standard guitarists (BTW, how did Spain get into the act?!) use the fingers of the right hand to differentiate between plucking styles. Except of course for those who play slide guitar on a standard guitar, either with straight pick or fingerstyle.

I can only imagine the consternation the unfortunates amongst us must face who play both Spanish/standard/plectrumstyle/fingerstyle guitar as well as Hawaiian/straight/lap/non-pedal/pedal steel guitar.

Upon reflection, it's enough to make me want to take up harmonica.

In all seriousness now, when someone asks my profession, I say I'm a professional musician. When they ask the instrument, I say "I'm a guitarist." If they ask further what type I reply "pedal steel primarily, but also non-pedal upon occasion." That usually gets an "oh, okay... like for country western?" response. I then reply affirmatively and that generally ends that topic in the conversation and we proceed to more important matters.

Chromatic harmonica or diatonic?

whats all the hubbub about how its defined in b0b’s forum sections -- if you look at b0b’s -- For Sale: Steel Guitars its up to the seller to define what it is --- first and foremost there all steel-Guitars .

Maybe we should talk about - Ford - Chevy - Kia - Toyota
Their just all cars

I recently heard someone ask our harmonica player what instrument he plays and he responded "I play the harp" and the person who asked got a very surprised look on her face and asked "You play a harp?" thinking that he played the large sringed version.

At one time I played with a drummer that refered to the piano as a percussion instrument (mainly to upset the keyboard players). He made that claim because acoustic piano strings are struck with a hammer.

Herb Steiner wrote:... If they ask further what type I reply "pedal steel primarily, but also non-pedal upon occasion." That usually gets an "oh, okay... like for country western?" response. I then reply affirmatively and that generally ends that topic in the conversation...

Yeah, Herb, in my neck of the woods, telling someone you play "country western" is also likely to lead to a blank expression followed by a rapid change in the conversation (indicating that we had hit a 'blank spot' in their mental apparatus). Somehow, I thought Texas would be different...

Would a harpist playing with a BIG BAND like Spade Cooley, Lawrence Welk or whomever......

describe their instrument as an "Angelic Harp", or "a western-swing Harp' or a "Gospel Harp" to describe what kind/style of music they play?

I really doubt it.

It's my belief for what it's worth, that the term "Hawaiian" and/or "Spanish" clearly defines the KIND of GUITAR it is, not what is going to be played on it.

Gene Jones wrote:Historically, during the many years before the first pedal was installed, the instrument was identified only as a "steel", and the musician was a "steel player". When the name "Hawaiian steel" was occasionally used, it identified the music played, not the guitar.

Much of the early sales literature I have seen (like Gibson) called it a Hawaiian guitar as opposed to a Spanish guitar. I don't know when they first started calling it a steel guitar. However by the 50's I agree that Hawaiian referred more to the music played than the instrument itself which was called a steel guitar.

Another question: I wonder when the term "lap steel" was first used.

Steve Ahola

P.S. In the 40's most electric guitars sold were lap steels. I would guess that the lap steel was probably the instrument most likely to be found in someone's house back then. Salesmen would go door to door selling Hawaiian guitars- almost giving them away if the customer signed up for lessons which was the big moneymaker.

EDIT practically all of the musician credits I have seen for the Western Swing bands and others simply say "steel guitar" without any kind of modifier.

Jim Cohen wrote:Yeah, Herb, in my neck of the woods, telling someone you play "country western" is also likely to lead to a blank expression followed by a rapid change in the conversation (indicating that we had hit a 'blank spot' in their mental apparatus). Somehow, I thought Texas would be different...

lol Jim, in our neck of the woods, "CW" will get you that blank stare....but "David Lindley" will get you an "oh...OK, that dude rocks".

My intro to lap steel.....08/1978....Mann Music Center in Fairmount Park, Philly. Jackson Browne show and Lindley just tore the place apart.

Ray Montee wrote:Would a harpist playing with a BIG BAND like Spade Cooley, Lawrence Welk or whomever......

describe their instrument as an "Angelic Harp", or "a western-swing Harp' or a "Gospel Harp" to describe what kind/style of music they play?

I really doubt it.

An ironic parallel is that the 2 primary categories of harps are essentially pedal and non-pedal.

Harpists do not typically describe the type of music which they play when they describe their instruments. They do however use terminolgy which describes the mechanical attributes of their instruments.

The term they would typically use is "concert harp", pedal harp, or "concert pedal harp." The last term seems to have fallen out of favor.

Concert harp distinguishes the instrument from a plain diatonic harp and the harps which have sharping levers. The latter category of harps can only play in some keys while concert pedal harps can be played in every key.

Why not just playing it instead of finding the perfect name for it?

I talked to someone recently who told me "when you're cleaning it, you're not riding it" referring to bikes (he was talking about "bikes without pedals" but I was talking about "bikes with pedals").

I personally call it a "guitar" but I use "lap steel guitar" to people who doesn't know about that kind of guitar.

It doesn't matter if it's with pedals or not, as long as you're adding something to the band and play the best you can, you could play accordeon that I couldn't care less.

Just one more observation I would like to add to the already lengthy discussion-

I have noticed lately in most modern Country music, the pedal steel is usually mixed way back, just playing pads and background chords, and I hardly ever hear a pedal steel solo!

But the Non-pedal (Lap steel or slide guitar)often plays a prominent role in the hook and does most of the fills, as well as some solos.

I guess this is due in part to the more "Rock" nature of the modern country sound, and the fact that the non-pedal lends itself more to distortion/sustain and single string melodies rather than the cleaner and sweet multi-note bends of the pedal steel.

I am sad that the clean sounds have been lost, and the wall of distortion now fills pop country music,
so that perhaps the only thing "country" that is left is the Southern accent on the vocals.

Indeed sometimes I am not able to tell if it's a standard electric guitar bend, a slide guitar, or a non-pedal steel.

Dom