Playing what is on the original recording

Adam Moritz · Post by **Adam Moritz** » 20 Mar 2011 2:44 pm

That's an interesting tidbit Paul. Do you ever go back and listen to your "play it like it is" performances on recording? I just wonder how amiable certain performers are when they have to deal with such situations. I record my rehearsals nearly every time now and go back and listen to them. I have found it very useful for many things (not only assessing the note-for-note aspects).

Buck Reid · Post by **Buck Reid** » 20 Mar 2011 3:25 pm

I think we gain alot when learning another players parts. It gives us insight to their approach and let's face it... who ever played on the record is there for a reason. Ultimately it gives us more to draw from when we are allowed to do what ever we want. It comes down to either a group concensus, or whatever the writer,artist and/or producer wants... depending on the situation.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 20 Mar 2011 5:27 pm

I already know I'm not the right guy for the kind of gigs where I'd be expected to play someone else's parts night after night, so I tend to stay away from those gigs (not that anyone is beating down my door trying to hire me for one). My greatest joy in playing music is trying to come up with my own parts spontaneously--I'm a perpetual improviser--I don't want to grow up!

Truthfully, though, I love to pick apart stuff like that and find out what makes it tick. I love transcribing and do it almost daily.

Robert Jette · Post by **Robert Jette** » 20 Mar 2011 6:18 pm

This thread has completely twisted off from Gordon's original post. He respects signature licks, but in the confines of his band, he doesn't play every song note for note. He's not auditioning for the Opry, Garth Brooks, or a Tribute to Hank Williams. I agree with Mike. I love to learn the ins and outs of a song, but if you want to hear an exact replication, I'm not the guy you need. The only way a player can develop a style is to take a bit of this, a bit of that, and make it his/her own. Different strokes...

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 20 Mar 2011 8:55 pm

Again, "it depends."

I did read an interesting statement years ago from a lead guitarist, and I'll paraphrase him: "When I was starting out, I learned every Chuck Berry song note for note and sounded just like Chuck Berry. And I learned every B.B. King song note for note and sounded exactly like B.B. When I started playing B.B. King licks on Chuck Berry songs, that's when I started sounding like me.

Not for everyone, but good for many of us. Your mileage may vary, and we should all be cool with that.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 20 Mar 2011 9:44 pm

Tony P. I thought I put in my post that I was kidding. No bad thoughts were meant.

Sorry.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 21 Mar 2011 1:38 am

Richard, none taken, all is good...I got it !

t

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 21 Mar 2011 7:07 am

One of the things "it depends" on is whether you're on the clock.The story goes that Buck Owens fired J.D. Maness for not covering Tom Brumley's parts live.I think there's a lesson somewhere in there for the player who'd rather be paid for his work than pay to do it.

David Griffin · Post by **David Griffin** » 21 Mar 2011 7:48 am

Some of the most miserable times in my career(as far as my playing)were when I was working w/ "label" artists & theater jobs where you had to play the same intros & fills every show.(if you didn't you'd get the white eye from the MD,or worse)

Especially the theater jobs where the show never changes.You could set your watch by what song you were playing!Sure,it was required & I learned a lot copying. But it wasn't much fun!

One of the many reasons I love Merle & Willie is because they let the songs evolve & change the arrangements to keep the band from getting stale. They are having FUN & IMHO that's what music is all about.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 21 Mar 2011 8:18 am

To reiterate the point of the thread, or at least my position..it is to be able to PLAY the parts as required and also ad-lib, not be stuck in one world or the other.

There is a ton to be learned by emulating what we hear, and then there is the fun of add lib...if the gig calls for playing it like BUCK wants, then that's the gig ! But the fact still remains that you gotta be able to do it, so keep both techniques in the arsenal.

You will never "NOT" get hired if you can actually play the song.

t

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 21 Mar 2011 9:13 am

Dave Hopping wrote:One of the things "it depends" on is whether you're on the clock.The story goes that Buck Owens fired J.D. Maness for not covering Tom Brumley's parts live.I think there's a lesson somewhwere in there for the player who'd rather be paid for his work than pay to do it.

And yet, somehow, I think J.D. survived and prospered just fine notwithstanding.

I completely agree that it's very useful to dissect and learn how other players - especially master session players - do things. I totally agree that this will not harm anybody's creativity - in fact, I think it adds to it. I have plenty to learn, and the best way to learn is to really sit down and listen carefully, figure it out, get it under my fingers, and figure how to incorporate it and other variations into my playing.

I also know that certain gigs - some name-artist gigs, some theatrical gigs, and so on - require learning and playing very particular parts without fail. When in Rome ...

But what to do on a gig still depends on the situation. There are plenty of paying gigs out there where you not only can improvise, but you are expected to improvise. There are even people out there who think if you play something just like the record, you must not be very creative - I completely disagree, but that mentality exists.

Examples - it drives me nuts, but when some people I play with play "Mama Tried", they're going Grateful Dead, not Merle Haggard. I play Roy Nichols' intro as close as I can (either guitar or steel), but I doubt anybody else cares. When I play "Straight, No Chaser" or "Well, You Needn't" (guitar), if I play Monk's head, I may clash - some are playing someone else's head (there are various well-known ones out there) and others just make up their own. When in Rome... goes both ways.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 21 Mar 2011 11:33 am

I'm knocked out when I hear a band playing it like the record.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 21 Mar 2011 1:06 pm

I agree, Theresa, especially when there is some particular thing on the record I really dig, and I want to see and hear it recreated.

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 22 Mar 2011 8:07 am

The amount of $s involved can sure change a mind.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 22 Mar 2011 8:14 am

Roual Ranes wrote:The amount of $s involved can sure change a mind.

Abso-freakin'-lutely!!

If it's a serious gig with a serious singer, for serious bucks, I'll do whatever it takes and wear a purple polyester jump suit and clown shoes if that's what the gig requires.

But if the front man is a no-singing so-and-so interviewing me beforehand about a $50 upcoming gig, I sure won't be doing much... if any... homework.

I did enough of that in my 20's and 30's. It's a different story in my mid-60's.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 22 Mar 2011 9:50 am

With Ron Rogers we are writing and arranging all-new material and I am in the (to me at least) delightful position of creating the "signature" lines for each song that I must then re-create every time we play the tunes live. I'm OK with that....

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 22 Mar 2011 9:57 am

Dave Grafe wrote:With Ron Rogers we are writing and arranging all-new material and I am in the (to me at least) delightful position of creating the "signature" lines for each song that I must then re-create every time we play the tunes live. I'm OK with that....

Dave,if one of those tunes ends up being a hit,players will be woodshedding YOUR lines.So be merciful!

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 22 Mar 2011 12:13 pm

I must admit that I don’t know how this thread got to be so confusing within its many crossovers.

Ninety percent of musicians are amateur musicians (say steel guitar players) who play just for the fun of being able to play chords or to pick out the melody of tunes using one or two strings. Sometimes they have orgasmic ecstasy if they can play a string of chords or the melody with a three string harmony. These people enjoy their playing just as much as the perfection driven professional.

Then, there are those who have moved up to a small band setting where practice and rehearsing is a haphazard event but everyone knows what everyone else is going to do, or almost knows. These people try to lay on signature licks, intros or wraps but can’t quite get it. They are happy with what they are doing just the same.

Then, there are those who are serious musicians and put everything into learning; the full range of their instruments; then the music they are playing; then, fall victim that terrible drive to push their ability to the absolute limit every time they hear a musical note.

Fortunately, or maybe unfortunately, I fall into that third category. For fifty-five years I have been driven to see how close I can get to the original recording or composition; then, move into explore mode to find out just far I can push everything but stay within the envelope of the original. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Not all musicians want that nor do they care or worry about it. They just love the sound of music, simple and/or complicated.

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 22 Mar 2011 1:41 pm

I've been playing steel for a lot of years. More than I'd like to mention and I always tried to play it like it is on the original cut. In the beginning it was real difficult, but, I made an attempt. There are so many great steel parts, that, are worth knowing, lick for lick. There are also, many steel parts, that, in my opinion, make a tune sound great. Those particular licks, whether, intros, breaks or endings are usually what attracted me to the song. There's also a great wealth of knowledge to be had figuring out these parts. After all, didn't we all copy somebody elses knowledge when we learned to play? Playing the original part adds to your bag of tricks. Sometimes, you can use these parts in different songs or build onto them or even rearrange them. All of these parts can be used in total or broken up in segments for your own improvisation. As to playing correctly for a particular venue, I say, do it! When the spotlight comes on,it's a great time to shine and play like a professional. Of course, all of this rhetoric is mitigated by your ability to play the steel. But, you can't go wrong in trying to emulate a master and his work.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 22 Mar 2011 2:32 pm

Tony P.

On the sunnier side, thanks for the links to your "Working Man Blues" & "Silver Wings".

I had no clue you have this great playing and instructo
on YT.

I enjoyed and gleaned much from your effort(s).

I liked, especially, the way you complemented the lead guit-work in SW. Great fills, and you just never got in the way. The fast pickin' in WMB wasn't too
chabby either.

Bravo!

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 22 Mar 2011 2:51 pm

Bobby Hearn, I "seriously doubt" you know my resume. But I can assure you that both Paul Franklin and Buck Reid both know the requirements of playing in a Nashville road band.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 22 Mar 2011 3:47 pm

Chip, you are my new best friend !

thanks for the nice comments...

but shamelessly,

those vids are plugs for instructional programs that I have published..
They are well detailed in the use of levers and such...

I've been fortunate, they have been well received. It takes a great deal of time to arrange the tracks so the parts don't step on each other, thanks for "hearing" that and mentioning it. Kinda like a real band !

t :

Steven Pearce · Post by **Steven Pearce** » 22 Mar 2011 3:53 pm

Guess it depends on if were playing "Hey Good Lookin" or "Willin"

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 23 Mar 2011 3:03 am

Herb Steiner wrote: I'll do whatever it takes and wear a purple polyester suit

here ya go Herb ! ( just tryin' to help a buddy )

You can get this on the net I'm sure...

Buck Reid · Post by **Buck Reid** » 23 Mar 2011 4:27 am

Playing your parts like the record is like a 'tip o' the hat' to the musicians and producers who contributed their time and talents in creating the song. In my experience I've found that once you establish this, the handcuffs come off and you're given more freedom to play your own ideas... provided it's within the style and attitude of the song, as Paul mentioned. I understand there are situations where this is not required and I like to do my "own thing" as much as anyone.