Tuner Out For Your Volume Pedal

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 30 Dec 2009 6:09 am

Tommy did say it works. I did the pedal for him while he was down for a visit.

Interesting, the input impedance of the tuner must have been very low to drag down the signal so bad!

Putting that 1 meg in series would put a much higher impedance in parallel with the signal going to the amp's input.

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 30 Dec 2009 12:12 pm

Ken, even when my Strobo-Stomp 2 is in the so called "True Bypass" mode, and the tuner is switched off, it drags the signal down some and changes the bass response. Is the low impedance the cause?

Thanks,
Randy

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 30 Dec 2009 1:01 pm

Without seeing the circuit I would suspect that would be the cause.

Gianni Gori · Post by **Gianni Gori** » 30 Jan 2010 2:03 am

I had modified my Goodrich in order to get a direct tuner out instead of one of the two output jacks.
It was quite "tone sucking" and I could hear a "pop" while switching the tuner on...

I have just followed Randy's directions and put a 1 meg resistance on the pedal's tuner out.
It works wonderfully, I got all my tone back and lost the noise!

Thank you Randy!

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 30 Sep 2010 8:13 pm

For what it's worth:

Putting a 1 meg ohm resistor in series with the input to a tuner is robbing that tuner of most of the signal from the pickup. This COULD cause irratic tuner behavior in some cases, particularly on the bottom bass strings. The following gets around this and I believe, it is the best of all worlds:

1. Buy a simple small switch box. Radio shack sells them. Make sure it is all metal.

2. Install 3 jacks in this box. I would suggest:

A. Input jack on one side.

B. 2 output jacks on the other side.

3. Buy a mini ON-ON-ON*, DPDT switch; and install it in the box. (I believe Zum and Mullen sells them, but you can buy them from Newark Electronics or Atlas Radio. I would suggest you install the switch on the top of the box.

4. Label Jacks as follows:

A. From Guitar

B. To Volume pedal

C. To Tuner.

Wire all parts thusly:

1. Solder the ground side of all jacks together with short wires.

2. Wire and Solder BOTH center connectors of the Switch to the hot connector of the "From Guitar" jack.

3. Wire and solder ONE of the end connectors of the Switch to the hot connector of the "To Vol Pedal" jack.

4. Wire and solder the other end connector (on the OPPOSITE corner) of the Switch to the hot connector of the "To Tuner" jack.

Done!

What is the advantage of this?

1. You can have the PU straight to tuner ONLY.

2. You can have the PU straight to vol pedal ONLY.

3. You can have BOTH.

You simply mark the toggle handle of the switch:

1. Tuner (handle to left 'or right' position)**

2. BOTH (Center position)

3. Vol pedal (handle to the right 'or left' position)**

There is NO loss of signal, except when the Switch is in the middle (center) position. The slight degradation of signal when using the BOTH position, you would not care about since you would probably ONLY use this position when you are tuning the guitar, AND you wanted to hear it through your amp (like when changing string while bringing them up to pitch).

C.

* This is a special 3 position toggle switch for JUST this type of situation; that not all electronic supply houses stock.

** BEFORE you label the switch, determine when the signal is going to the tuner or the Volume pedal, by placing the switch in either end position.

This is determined by how you wired the "end" connectors. It does not matter which, as long as you label it correctly.

Finally, Make SURE one of the connectors on each end of the switch has NOTHING connected to it. This is important. AND that you soldered the wires on OPPOSITE connectors at each end of the switch.

I know it sounds terribly complicated, but if you follow the steps, you will in all likelyhood say, "That was simple"

Promise

color]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 1 Oct 2010 7:22 am

There is a fellow on the Forum here who makes a box like Carl is talking about. It is called a "Jerry Rig". I have one on my steel and it works great.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 1 Oct 2010 7:46 am

But there's something to be said for 100% hands free tuning, and tuning while you play, just to check every now and then. A tuner getting signal while your volume pedal is muted, or not. No flipping switches or temporarily disabling your signal to the amp while you tune. It's always there, always reading, no matter what your volume pedal is doing. And you don't have to lift a finger to tune, just simply glance at the tuner and that's it.

The way I see it, a 1Meg resistor as described in Randy's circuit mixed with the 1M (or so) input impedance of a tuner attenuates the signal by 6dB. Or in other words, cuts the level in half. But steel pickups are often way more than twice as hot as guitar pickups, so in a way, you're doing the tuner a favor by feeding it a padded down signal that it's more likely designed to see.

This method Randy describes, so far, has worked well with every tuner I've tried. It's as minimal and elegant as it gets, keeps the tuner garbage safely out of the signal path, and really works like a charm. I don't see the benefit in a switching device when this works so well. All you need is a 3rd jack on a volume pedal, a 15 cent resistor, minor soldering skills, and you're there.

Brad

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 1 Oct 2010 8:50 am

I can't speak for other tuners, but the signal through the 1Meg resistor is plenty hot for my Strobo Flip... And like stated, always at the ready. Modded both my primary and backup volume pedals iaw the suggested pedal mod info here. Works like a champ.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 1 Oct 2010 11:51 am

I made a George L's cord with a cheapo plastic jack on one end and put the 1 meg resistor inside the plastic housed jack between the positive jack post and the positive wire in the cord. It eliminated the distortion and worked great. However, when I was at the St Louis show I left the tuner with Mary and she removed a diode so now I don't need to use the cord with a resistor in it. I had damaged the Stroboflip by stupidly plugging a Hilton pedal power supply into it and burned something out and Sue fixed that "no charge". Amazing!!
Jerry

Butch Pytko · Post by **Butch Pytko** » 1 Oct 2010 4:10 pm

After reading C. Dixon's thread, I yelled out loud--"You mean to tell me I got it ALL WRONG?" Back at the beginning of this topic where Randy laid down the TUNER-OUT PROCEDURE with Brad Sarno giving his blessing on it--I went ahead & did the procedure. All this time, as far as I can tell, it has worked perfectly!!

Brad Sarno, I'd like to give you a big huge THANK YOU for coming back & giving a SECOND BLESSING on the validity of the procedure, plus, your nice long involved explanation of WHY IT WORKS!!!!

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 2 Oct 2010 5:32 am

I never imagined when I posted this thread that as many people would listen to what I said... I've talked to many who have told me this has been a cure for their tuner problems. For me, it works every single time, in every situation, perfectly! I can pick the string soft and the tuner gets enough signal to read it.

These days I tend to look at my gear as tools rather than the instruments they are. What's the difference? For me my equipment lets me perform what's in me, (good or bad) without having to worry about its dependability, sound, etc. My instruments, I put up on their own pedestal in a somewhat less than "Holy" position. I always want to be thinking about what I want to play musically, rather than what I'm playing it on or through. When you get the right "tools" to let this happen it's a great thing! The importance of the sound of my equipment is "all important" to be able to let the music flow.

Simplicity is also huge! As a touring steel player I can tell you smaller and lighter are better! Just try going on a week of fly dates through airports and you'll decide what's really important to you. I have all this really cool gear I'd like to have at every gig, but it's just not practical. It would be like a mechanic making house calls to change spark plugs in your car. He doesn't need to bring his whole shop of tools.

I think it would be a good idea for the volume pedal manufactures to include this tuner out in their products. Ernie Ball does have a tuner out, but it's incorporated in their buffer, which changes the sound of your guitar.

Thanks for listening...
Randy

Rob Fenton · Post by **Rob Fenton** » 10 Nov 2010 6:33 pm

I've been considering getting a new Hilton Volume pedal for a while, and have read this thread, and others about the Strobo-Flip distortion problem.

I'm not mechanically, or electronically adept, so I am quite excited to have found a company that sells them already modded, if one so desires...

http://www.tonetronix.com/mm5/merchant. ... gory_Code=

Justin Douglas · Post by **Justin Douglas** » 17 May 2011 5:43 am

Thought I'd chime in on an old thread here.

This will absolutely work on a Hilton and is very easy to do. I did it yesterday, here's how:

- Open the pedal up

- Remove the jumper wire (mine was green) between the 2 outputs. There's only one wire connecting the 2, so that's it! The rear output will remain your main AMP out. The middle out will be your TUNER out.

- Connect a jumper (short wire) from the ground (sleeve) of the input jack to the ground (sleeve) of the middle jack.

- Connect a jumper with 1M resistor inline from the hot connection (tip) of the input jack to the hot (tip) of the middle jack.

Done!

Now for some reason the output jacks aren't grounded on these pedals (or at least on mine). Not sure why, but that's just how it is. Only the hot side is connected.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 18 May 2011 9:36 am

Justin, all the jacks are grounded through the metal frame....no separate ground wire is needed.

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 7 Apr 2012 9:36 am

Wow, I went to do this mod on my L120 "low" pedal and it looks like I've got to take the pedal completely apart to get to the jacks. It was easy on the regular 120, I might pass on this one.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 7 Apr 2012 12:50 pm

What about splitting the signal after a "matchbox" device and before the volume pedal?

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 7 Apr 2012 1:24 pm

Lee Baucum wrote:What about splitting the signal after a "matchbox" device and before the volume pedal?

Yep, that's my "plan B". : )

Jerry Tillman · Post by **Jerry Tillman** » 9 Apr 2012 4:53 am

Get a Snark tuner and clip it to your tuning keys.They work great and you are looking toward the tuning keys and the tuner at the same end.

Jack Stanton · Post by **Jack Stanton** » 9 Apr 2012 7:02 am

I had this set up done to my Emmons VP minus the resistor, and had notice a slight distortion in my signal, but never associated it w/ the tuner input.
Installed the resistor and notice a definite improvement in signal clarity this weekend.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 9 Apr 2012 8:10 am

Here is my opinion: A guitar pickup produces a really low level signal. A low level signal is easily degraded. Any type of tuner requires a certain amount of current. If really high resistance is put in the feed line, the tuner is not going to get enough current to operate correctly. I can install a dedicated tuner output in new or old Hilton pedals. The cost is $10.00 plus return shipping. My tuner output will not degrade the quality of the signal to the tuner or the amplifier.

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 4 Jun 2012 4:17 am

Has anyone performed this mod to a Goodrich L120? It looks really difficult.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 4 Jun 2012 4:40 am

I did it on mine. I didn't have any problem, although I did take the pedal apart. That's not a big deal: open, unstring, loosen the set screw with your 7/64 Allen wrench, slide the axle out..
Do what you need to do (I skip the resistor, haven't noticed a problem) inside.
To quote Chilton, not Hilton, assembly is the reverse of disassembly.

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 4 Jun 2012 6:25 am

Thanks Lane. I'll give it a shot. I was not wanting to unstring it, 'cuz I really like it right now, but I guess I shouldn't be so afraid of messing with the string.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 4 Jun 2012 7:25 am

Here, have a pic just to remind you,or take your own.

Boo Bernstein · Post by **Boo Bernstein** » 7 Jun 2012 12:08 pm

Okay, I'm not the sharpest electronics person but can use a soldering iron. Can someone please give me very simple step by step directions to make Randy's mod to a Goodrich pedal? I assume I have to detach the second output from the first output and then add the 1 meg resister, but would greatly appreciate it if someone could give me the quick, specific "Tuner Mod For Dummys" overview! Thanks so much. Boo

The Steel Guitar Forum

Tuner Out For Your Volume Pedal

Tuner Out Signal!

Hilton

L120 not so easy

tuner cure

Step by step instructions