The Steel Guitar Forum

I agree Deke, that article opened up "a can of worms", so to speak. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was long suspected that PA was like Leo Fender, a non musician who did not play an instrument himself. I kinda thought he did, judging by the photo of him behind Speedy's guitar, the way he holds the bar and the right hand position, and the fact that he wrote the steel guitar tuning booklet. And now the book reveals that he actually was an amateur musician and even listed in musicians union.
Also what's interesting regarding the Travis Bigsby/Fender dilemma; the book clearly reveals that PA actually made not only the Travis solidbody, but quite a few other standard guitars too long before Leo went into production with Broadcaster.

I was lucky to see an advance galley of the book - without the final rock section but having written my book, I know how difficult it is to get a book to press, how many compromises are necessary from what you want, the publisher wants, what photos are available and at what point in the process, etc. In my opinion, Andy Babiuk did a great job and Jussi, Deke and the others deserve a big round of applause for their behind-the-scene efforts.

I wish Joaquin's photos were bigger and that Vance, Tiny and Budd got the real estate on the page they richly deserved but all-in-all, it's a great book presented in very high quality. I was surprised that the book didn't include a listing with serial numbers of every known Bigsby instrument but I suspect there's a reason for that.

Deke, your playing slays me and your unsung work in keeping the history of Calif. players and instruments alive and documented is much appreciated and will be well into the future. I can't wait to read the new FJ interview you did and I wish I had written it!

It is explained in the book that PA did in fact keep extensive files about his customers, no ledger book though, but all the files were lost when the house was sold after PA's passing. That's why there is no definitive list of the instruments. It would have not served the purpose to include a list a few of us have kept because it would've been incomplete, and in some cases probably incorrect.

Deke Dickerson wrote:hey Ron--
That's a great story about the Daily Signal. Do you have any idea where somebody might have an original copy of that 1955 newspaper? MLA only had a xerox copy and that's what we used in the book. The newspaper went out of business a long time ago, right? Seeing that newspaper article was a revelation. It's about as close to a real interview with P.A. that you can get. Plus he reveals that he was a steel guitarist himself and that he built the first Bigsby for his own use. Many revelations from that story.
Deke

I wish I could help you with getting an ancient copy of the Signal, but getting one from any day of that year would be a koup, and one I'd dig as well, as I'm sure the headlines would still be about my birth in January... '55 was the year I was born and I left the SE 'hood' in '75 for the Spacific Islands, not having thot too much about that newspaper since.

I must say, this is a great thread, not the least for the stated fact that PA was indeed a steel player, to some degree. Years ago I'd asked the question here on the SGForum after seeing the picture Jussi mentions, but no diffinitive answer ensued. Now we know! I can't wait to get my hands on this new book and read the article.

Lordie, how I wish I'd known enuf in '65 to hustle over to PA's home and if not at least seen him before he passed on, maybe salvage those records and whatever else of history that went to the dump.
My mom and I always laughed at 'Phlox' Ave.

Ron, I figured as much, but I thought I'd ask in case you knew who ran the paper or that sort of thing. I have "Huntington Park Daily Signal" in my ebay search but that might take 30 years. ha.

Andy, thanks for the kind words, I have certainly enjoyed your Lap Steel Guitars book!

And yes, Jussi and I have compiled lists of the guitars, steel guitars, mandolins, etc. but it's really just guesswork. The thing that was neat about the "Bigsby Brain Trust" guys who got together and worked on the book was that we were all able to compare notes and vintage photographs and rumors and that sort of thing, and slowly instruments began to turn up, or at least photos of them. Although it would be fun to have Bigsby's ledger, it's almost more fun that it's a total mystery--almost like Egyptology, where's it's all just guesswork and conjecture.

I'm hoping that a few new guitars and steel guitars turn up out of the blue as a result of the book. That will be a gas to see.

By the way, one of the Bigsby Brain Trust listed in the book, Bob Guida, dropped dead today of a heart attack. he was a Bigsby fanatic and kept a detective book that was indispensible when we started working on the new book. He will be greatly missed. Glad that he at least got to see the book.

Last thing I'll throw out here....Jeremy Wakefield and I are convinced that we saw the 1945 Bigsby that Joaquin Murphy played in the Three Stooges short. That would be Bigsby #1 or Bigsby #2 if you count the one P.A. says he built himself in the Daily Signal article.

The steel was at a vintage guitar show in L.A. probably about 1993 or 1994. The guy wanted 400 bucks for it, and it was painted grey or green housepaint, we both commented that the shape of the body reminded us of Chas Smith's Bigsby doubleneck lap steel, but it didn't look right to us because it had Rickenbacker style horseshoe pickups on it. I'm almost positive that was Joaquin's original guitar. No idea what happened to it.

Deke

I think I'll play one tonight on my Bigsby for Bob, RIP my friend!

Michael Simmons at Fretboard Journal tells me this DVD includes a Spade Cooley movie called Everybody's Dancin' and it has a clip with Noel Boggs on one side of the stage with his Fender and Joaquin Murphy on the other with his Bigsby. Michael says, "Sadly there are no close ups of Joaquin who seems to spend a lot of his time wheeling his steel around to get out of the way of the acrobats Spade's band is playing for..."



http://www.amazon.com/Showtime-USA-Vol- ... B000WPE8NI

Deke Dickerson wrote:Last thing I'll throw out here....Jeremy Wakefield and I are convinced that we saw the 1945 Bigsby that Joaquin Murphy played in the Three Stooges short. That would be Bigsby #1 or Bigsby #2 if you count the one P.A. says he built himself in the Daily Signal article. The steel was at a vintage guitar show in L.A. probably about 1993 or 1994. The guy wanted 400 bucks for it, and it was painted grey or green housepaint, we both commented that the shape of the body reminded us of Chas Smith's Bigsby doubleneck lap steel, but it didn't look right to us because it had Rickenbacker style horseshoe pickups on it. I'm almost positive that was Joaquin's original guitar. No idea what happened to it. Deke

Man, the PU's alone on that sucker would have been worth the asking price! At least there's a chance that priceless/historic guitar is still sitting safe somewhere. I'm a big fan of painted guitars that no one wants, and this would be THE ONE.

Hey Deke, check your PM...I sent you note RE something.

Speaking of the D-8 lap's that Bigsby made. There is a lot of similarities to Rickenbachers aluminum D-8's. I am sure he got his design influence here:

Hey y'all--don't worry, Jon was emailing me about Gino King, not about finding the lost Joaquin Murphy lap steel!

And yes, Todd I think that the Rickenbackers were such innovators back in those days, any inventor like Bigsby would have had to copy their designs at first in making a steel guitar, don't you? Especially with P.A.'s proximity to Rickenbacker in those days--I doubt many of those Epiphones got to the West Coast, probably all he saw were Rickenbackers and mail order Oahus. Those first few Bigsby steels are extremely Rickenbacker in design. I think it was only when Joaquin requested the Triple 8 console that the whole Bigsby concept of a steel guitar started to evolve. Anyway that's my take on it.

I also think he got away from the horseshoe pickup because Rickenbacker then, and now, own the patent for horseshoe pickups, and nobody else is allowed to make them without infringing the patent!

I think JW found the guy who was selling the lap steel that could have been joaquins, and he had sold it. So--it's out there somewhere, if you see a homebrew looking double neck steel with horseshoe pickups, let us know!

Deke

The mind wobbles just considering that those two vitual Holy Grails are floating around somewhere, and the owners probably don't have a clue what they've got...

Yes Ron, and I'm wonderin' how many "under the bed" Bigsbys are still out there, I myself owning a classic example of one! I haven't told this story here before and I hope you don't mind me sharing it; Had it not been that Buddy Emmons kept that Q&A on his website for a short while years back, my guitar would probably still be in a closet in Alabama. I was watching that Q&A closely at the time and happened to see this guy inquiring from Buddy some info about his dad's Bigsby, not knowing really anything about it. I thought, wow, never heard of that guitar before and just for the heck of it emailed him. To my surprise he emailed right back and I gave him the best info I could about PA and his guitars. A week or two later he emailed photos of the guitar and those old b&w photos of PA and the guitar that are in the book. I pretty much fell off my rocker and I knew I wanted to get that guitar. I gave him my offer and explained that it probably was worth a lot more that I can offer. He said he hadn't really considered selling it, it was his late dad's prized guitar and an important memory of his dad, but he said he'll think about it. He thought about it a month, then another, the longest two months of my life! Then finally I got an email that he agreed to sell it, on terms that I travel to AL, spend the 4th of July with them and play the guitar for them. That suited me better than fine since I was going on a tour in US around that time anyway. Fast forward to July 3rd 2002, I'm in a small town in AL opening a case of a -63 Bigsby and find it to be totally original and like brand new. Everything was there, even the cigarette butts in the ashtray. Pedals were stiff due to being in the case for 23 years but it was in perfect tune! During that weekend I played that guitar there ( the owner's mint condition blonde Fender Showman was at hand too ), had some real southern bbq, gallons of beer, talked and listened music and just had generally h...ll of a time. I not only bought a guitar but found a bunch of nicest people that became my dear friends for the lifetime.
I also would like to say that all photos and documents that are credited in the book to me, should actually be credited to Michael and Joni Gabbard, they are the ones that searched the house, found them and actually still own the originals. Their enthusiasm helped to shed light on things by finding these documents. And actually there's lot more of them, what was included in the book is just a tip of the iceberg.
Anyway, sorry for the long rant, I just love telling this story!!!

Deke Dickerson wrote:Ron, I figured as much, but I thought I'd ask in case you knew who ran the paper or that sort of thing. I have "Huntington Park Daily Signal" in my ebay search but that might take 30 years. ha.

Yeah, if you're talking about finding one for purchase that might be your only hope. There's a chance an original's buried in a Regional Archive somewhere, but unless you put it in your coat and walk out they'd never let you borrow it...

Deke Dickerson wrote:And yes, Jussi and I have compiled lists of the guitars, steel guitars, mandolins, etc. but it's really just guesswork. The thing that was neat about the "Bigsby Brain Trust" guys who got together and worked on the book was that we were all able to compare notes and vintage photographs and rumors and that sort of thing, and slowly instruments began to turn up, or at least photos of them. Although it would be fun to have Bigsby's ledger, it's almost more fun that it's a total mystery--almost like Egyptology, where's it's all just guesswork and conjecture.

I'm hoping that a few new guitars and steel guitars turn up out of the blue as a result of the book. That will be a gas to see.

As I am primarily a mandolinist and a great fan of Tiny Moore, I was saddened to see so little on him in the book. Oh well - maybe in the next edition? Still, as an admirer of all Bigsby designs this book is truly a treasure. Thanks Deke!

I can relate to your "Egyptology" metaphor - as I consider my own role as a junior researcher for another long-gone LA luthier, Chris Knutsen. Every little clue you find leads to more and more tantalizing tidbits of info that need to be tracked down... Every instrument has its own story and lore, and it's own set of clues. And every year more and more instruments turn up, which is great fun.

I'm sorry to hear of the passing of your friend; at least as you say he got to see the fruits of his research. A cautionary tale, I would think - that reminds me, I better get back to work on my article...

ps. First it was All-Bigsby, then All-Rickenbacher, then All-Mosrite. Next year? All-Gibson? All-Fender? All-Carvin?

Jussi Huhtakangas wrote: Anyway, sorry for the long rant, I just love telling this story!!!

Don't be sorry, I love stories like that.

And we need an all-Carvin band!! Where the heck are all the Carvin console steels anyway?? ...hiding in southern cal basements/garages I suppose.

Ha! The problem with an All-Carvin band is that we'd have to represent the company from the beginning until now. So we'd have guys playing little blond wood steel guitars and then guys playing heavy metal on those hideous PRS-style guitars they make now! ha.

I don't think Carvin made very many console or pedal steels. They were in their catalog, but considering how few I've seen in person and on ebay, they must not have sold more than a couple dozen every year, maybe less.

I guess we'll milk the "All-_____ Band" until the well is dry. I'm thinking about the All-Gibson Harp Guitar band, or the All-Danelectro Band...

Hey, maybe we could do one of those "Hawaiian Steel Guitar Orchestras" like they used to have in the 40's, with 30 teenage kids all playing Oahu lap steels! ha.

Deke

F.Y.I. The original snapshot photo of Murph playing the backwards single 8 w/pedals was loaned to me by Bobby Black in 1999 when he was staying at my home during the days surrounding Murph's funeral. Bobby told me his dad took him and his brother Larry to see The Western Caravan at a gig in central California in 1951 and they were able to speak to Murph and Tex. Bobby's dad took a few pictures and this is one of them. I scanned that photo and cropped it down in photoshop as it is seen in the Bigsby book so what appears in the book was somehow derived from that. I probably posted it on the forum somewhere along the line and someone picked it up from there. The original shows Johnny's face and about 20% more all around but for my purposes I wanted the cropped version. I gave a copy of the full shot to Johnny's son Danny Wiess who's had quite a career as a funk rock guitar picker in his own right. Danny's got lots of stories to tell.... Also I have the original of the "fringed jacket" shot depicted in the book. The one in the book that is signed "to Moe" was one of the copies I made for Murph to sign and sell as a way to make him a few bucks when he was ill. That one went to Moe Kabir in the UK.
Long before I saw a picture of that backwards Bigsby,Murph told me about a strange Bigsby he briefly had and said he only played it onstage one night - so it's a minor miracle that there's a photo of him playing it. Murph alludes to it in the taped interview I included on the CD that I recorded called "Murph". In the interview he tells of taking the guitar back to P.A. and telling him "Christ Bigsby,you can do better than that!" Tex confirmed that fact to Bobby - he only played it once and then gave it back to P.A. because it broke too many strings. The last time that guitar was seen was in San Diego a few years ago.
BTW, I have another interesting shot of Murph playing a Dual Professional while jamming in Jerry Compton's living room which I posted in the thread about Jerry's recent passing under "Gone Home".

Does anybody know how many necks the Bob Meadows Bigsby guitar had?

The Carvin Company's story is yet another of major historic value that hasn't been told yet, other than on their own website... They were one of the first parts suppliers, and many top players like Travis and Maphis had some of their great guitars outfitted with Carvin PUs, which are still some of the best sounding around.
I think they did sell a substantial number of steels, tho not anywhere like Fender of course, as I've seen quite a few, and interesting models, over the years up for sale/auction, but it's their early model spanish style guitar's and basses that are super rare. While neither are of the highest Bigsby type of quality, I know for sure the steels rank as some of the '2nd tier' best ever made. I once had a mid 60s era dbl. 8 that was real good, and I still have a dbl. 6 from the 50s that is simply great. And it can be easily converted to a 7 or 8 stringer should I ever lay hands on the correct PUs. Anybody have one or a pair of old 8 pole Carvin PUs and/or 4 on-a-side tuners? The tuner holds are already factory drilled to accept the mod and can be fitted with 4 on-a-side's, and the cast aluminum nut comes pre-grooved for extended stringing capabilities and the bridge is set up for it too.
A 'vintage only' all-Carvin band would be quite something, maybe even a rarer sight than the phenomenal all-Bigsby bands Deke has incredibly assembled occassionally.

BTW, Deke, you don't get the accolades deserved, and it's great that you post here for all to enjoy the terrific music and inside knowledge/info/history you provide.
If I still lived in LA, it would have been my ultimate dream to do what you've been doing for many years with all the retro-Cali focus, but you're doing it far better than I ever could. Even your name fits perfectly, many thanx!

Jim, I tracked down Bob about 15 years ago at his Western wear store in the Phoenix area.
He was a very amiable guy, I believe he told me that while playing with the Jack Parsons group he used a T8 Bigsby.
Its hard to tell in the photo I posted, but Im pretty sure its a Triple(see front legs).
I kind of remember him telling me about having two T8s?, or having the one in the pic retrofitted with pedals?.
He did however tell me that later on that he had PB build him a D12, I was surprised to hear him say that, and asked him to repeat the statement.
He was very adamant that he had owned a Bigsby D12.
Lee

Did Meadows then have 3 Bigsby guitars: T 8, D 8, and D 12??

Here are two pics of what I assume is the same guitar. The color pic was posted on this forum in 2007 by the current owner--New York? New England somewhere? Recently discovered I think?

Does anyone know who's band this is in the black and white photo?

Bobbe Seymour converted that guitar from T8 to D8 back in the early 60's I think. He told me the whole story when this guitar turned up some time ago. I can't recall the details anymore but I might have the email archived somewhere. And you can clearly see that he made new endplates for it at least. C'mon Bobbe, chime in!!

Deke, you don't get the accolades deserved

Here, here!! Love the Guitar Geek Festival DVD's!

This is the only photo I can find of the D-8 that was converted to a D-10. If memory serves me well, it was converted back to a D-8, because I have the 10-string headstocks:

While we're at it, ever see a Bigsby 9-neck? 8-8-8-8-8-8-10-10-10 with pedals on the middle necks. You had to have "knuckle-draggers" to play the 10's.