A word of warning - my bank's error!!!

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 28 Jan 2009 5:02 pm

Call them?? Yeah, well what do you THINK we did??

We called and fought Paypal for about 2 weeks. First, we fought like heck just to get them to acknowledge there MIGHT be a problem. NO, first just try to even FIND a phone # to call them!! This was a couple of years ago, they may be more accessable these days, I don't know. But then to motivate them to actually do something was an act of congress. Hope your streak of good luck continues with them, Keith.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 28 Jan 2009 5:24 pm

I know I may not have had the same experience, James. As to finding the phone number, if you have the debit card it is right there along the top edge of the back of the card. Their VRU sucks- I hate it and generally just give it gibberish til I get a person- but once I get them they normally take care of me pretty well. Not knowing the details of your issue, I can't say what would help but I would be the first to recommend them for more-or-less trouble free transactions under almost all circumstances. Using that service has literally saved my ### a few times.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 28 Jan 2009 5:45 pm

Well, Keith, I DO know that nobody on this thread has come up with a totally safe way of doing transactions. It's a little like falling, find a soft way to land so it doesn't hurt too bad, huh??

Jon Jaffe · Post by **Jon Jaffe** » 28 Jan 2009 6:31 pm

There is no absolute zero. There is no way of doing business without some bad debt. PayPal is like flying. It is the safest way mile for mile. Most of what they do is done electronically. All of the transactions are recorded. Patience and emails will usually sort out the problems. I am sure if you asked they could tell you their rate of error per thousand transactions. I doubt they can tell you if the person on the other side of the transaction is a jerk. A testimonial bad experience does not make PayPal bad, nor bank tellers, checks, money orders, or $20 bill.

I do require buyers to become Forum members if they found the item from a Forum ad. Five bucks keeps a lot of jerks away.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 28 Jan 2009 6:58 pm

PayPal is so far ahead of any other method, it's not even funny. Instant payment, verified addresses, you don't have to give out your credit card info, you get more buyers, you don't have to take a check somewhere to cash it. I have about 450 PayPal transactions and not one single problem.

Greg

Jon Jaffe · Post by **Jon Jaffe** » 28 Jan 2009 7:17 pm

Exactly

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 28 Jan 2009 8:21 pm

Jon and Greg, I'm proud for ya, that you didn't have my experience with paypal. Your viewpoint might come from a little different angle if you had. A man's got to stick with what he believes, Good luck.

Stan Paxton · Post by **Stan Paxton** » 29 Jan 2009 5:58 am

Greg, are we talking about the same Paypal? Instant payment? It took me weeks to get all my money from them on a psg sale. They would let me have a little bit by sending it to my bank, where I would have to get the bank to acknowledge & certify they had put the money into my acount. Then PP would let me have some more, etc etc.

I eventually got all my money, but meanwhile my $ were tied up and needed it to send a personal check to a great Forum member to pay for the psg I bought from him. ... So, it looks like there are too many variables for me to believe in Paypal again. ...If these banks, Paypal & PO were run by our good Forum brothers/sisters probably would not have the problem.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 29 Jan 2009 6:07 am

I have received payments to my bank of up to $3000 from Paypal. If it was your first transaction with them the I can see why- they get defrauded a lot by people that open accounts just to rip them off; it is an instant payment if you get the debit card. I have been paid to my Paypal account and had cash in hand 15 minutes later. thousands of times.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 29 Jan 2009 8:01 am

It takes about 2 or 3 days for funds to make it from PayPal to my bank. I do this regularly - 2 or 3 times per month - and have been doing it for many years. I've never had a problem with that process.

I think that if you understand their system and use it regularly, you have much better results. Their security procedures for new members are probably pretty strict, as they should be.

I have a PayPal debit card that uses funds from the account. I use it to pay for postage when I mail out goods from the Forum Catalog, and often walk away with $50 "cash back" from the transaction. When I get back to the office, I see that the funds have been subtracted from my PayPal account.

When you consider that some of this money comes from Europe or Australia, it's hard to imagine a faster cash delivery system.

Andrew Kilinski · Post by **Andrew Kilinski** » 30 Jan 2009 8:57 pm

Buying goods from fellow forum members is the *only* time i've ever used money orders. I hate it.

Between the half hour it takes to drive to the bank, withdraw the cash, then drive to the post office and wait in line for at least 20 minutes, then hand over the cash to them for a little piece of paper...it makes me nervous every time.

I'll pay the 3% paypal fee til i'm blue in the face to save myself the heartache, and know that if something goes wrong, the money is not gone.

*poof*

Tommy Shown · Post by **Tommy Shown** » 30 Jan 2009 11:26 pm

Greg, that is down right rude for that man to slam down that phone.And the Postal Service is always asking for a rate increase. That's customer service these days.
Tommy Shown

Dwight Lewis · Post by **Dwight Lewis** » 31 Jan 2009 1:58 am

I just cashed in a postal M.O. and tried to do it first thing in the morning but they didnt have the cash available. The window clerk said to come back later in the day. So I went back in the afternoon to a different Post Office and they cashed it no problem. That's just my particular case. I am an eletronic technician for the P.O. and would like to apologized for the misrepresentation that some people have recieved. I understand totally. There are some UNIQUE

individuals working there. I have to be very understanding at times. But there is no excuse for bad service given the vintage status of the P.O., not to mentin we depend soley on the people for our existense. Much apologies to everyone and remember it's not everyone but just a few bad seeds causing a few bad incidents that make a whole body look very bad.
Thanks

Eric Philippsen · Post by **Eric Philippsen** » 31 Jan 2009 5:32 am

I am a postmaster of a large post office. I have worked for the USPS for 29 years.

First, Greg should never have received the rude and unprofessional treatment from his postmaster or any other postal employee. If I might, I apologize on behalf of the Postal Service for that.

In regard to Postal Money Orders, they are a very reliable and excellent method of payment and transferring money. It is true that counterfeiting exists, but it is very rare, and any post office is able to verify the authenticity of any MO.

As for the cashing of a MO, it is true that a Post Office is not required to cash one if it does not have sufficient funds available. This is often the case in small offices and early in the day. Of course, those MOs for larger amounts (as was the case in this thread's original transaction) are harder to cover.

So, why doesn't a Post Office carry over or have on hand sufficient cash to cover any MO presented for redemption? There are two reasons for that. 1) The security and safety issue of it being known that a large amount of cash ($$thousands$$) would be kept on hand in every single post office in the United States and 2) the huge loss of interest that would be earned for the sum total of all offices' cash if it were not banked.

What to do? Most larger post offices are able to cash MO's, especially later in the day. Or keep looking for a good bank that you can work with. In this thread it appears that much of the the problem was with Wachovia. When I first read that they had stated the Postal MOs were "counterfeit", when they were in fact genuine, I immediately sensed that something wasn't right.

Again, my apologies on behalf of the Postal Service.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 31 Jan 2009 6:20 am

Eric

Thanks for your post.

My experiences with USPS in this particular case (I started the thread) were all good. It was irritating that they didn't have enough money on hand and, on reflection, I wish now that I'd asked that clerk to confirm the checks were 'good', even if he couldn't cash them. That would have lessened my anguish enormously.

I can see your point about a 'float'. In this case, there wasn't any particular rush for me to get the cash (what's a few days 'interest' for someone like me at the bottom of the financial 'food chain'?), but I did need to know that they were valid so that I could send the steel guitar feeling secure about the funds.

Wachovia are the villains here.

Do you know, I'm STILL getting the run-around from the manager at that branch? A letter of apology to my buyer and myself was promised two weeks ago yet, when I called again yesterday asking where they were, I was given yet more eyewash about postal delays, problems with their telephones that prevented them from keeping me informed, etc, etc. When they tried to tell me that the letters had been dispatched, therefore must have 'gone astray', I said: "BOTH of them?"

Roger (Guyett): Please let me know when, or if, you hear from them...

Mike Bowles · Post by **Mike Bowles** » 2 Feb 2009 12:29 pm

you guys got me worried now i just sent ray walker a money order for my new seat every one that i have dealt with here on the forum are real honest people i guess its up to us to look out for each other if we know for sure someone is dishonest i think we should expose them

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 2 Feb 2009 12:40 pm

Mike

Read my first post again. There was no dishonesty here from either buyer or seller (both of us, incidentally, Forum members). The fault lay with my bank - Wachovia - who scanned the Money Orders and declared them 'counterfeit'. They then carelessly mailed the MOs to my home address, leaving me exposed to the risk of them going astray and losing the money I was paid for the guitar. (I've said all this already!!!)

The MOs were NOT counterfeit. The point of my warning on this thread was for everyone paying Money Orders into a bank account instead of a US Post Office to proceed with caution. If possible, always cash them at a Post Office and don't run the risk of encountering the problems that I did!

This thread is NOT about the honesty of Forum members - far from it.

Russell Nugent · Post by **Russell Nugent** » 2 Feb 2009 1:52 pm

Roger: I had a very bad experience with Walkoverya a few years ago. I now do business with a credit union where decisions are made locally and the management assumes responsibility of the operation. Great service, personal attention and little or no fees. Plus, it's solvent and isn't whining for a bailout. I really don't see any advantage with huge banks.

Mike Bowles · Post by **Mike Bowles** » 2 Feb 2009 2:55 pm

Roger im sorry i didnt mean either one of you guys were dishonest its just that i hope ray doesnt have any trouble with the money order i sent him i hope it doesnt get lost i have been waiting 3 weeks on a package from nc thanks mike

Roger Guyett · Post by **Roger Guyett** » 2 Feb 2009 3:33 pm

Roger Rettig wrote:
Roger (Guyett): Please let me know when, or if, you hear from them...

Sadly....nothing....I'm standing by for that big compensation check I know theyre going to send us

Then I can get those PSG lessons I need.......

R

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 2 Feb 2009 4:09 pm

Mike

From your first post it didn''t read as though you'd understood the problem here.

Roger

That Audrey North woman 'phoned me yesterday asking if I'd received the letter. Of course I hadn't (and, I guessed, neither had you) and I hope I sounded as sceptical as I felt. I don't think for one moment that she'd sent anything. However, she 'phoned me today, saying she'd been to the Post Office herself to do the mailing. It all sounded like a complete 'blind' and I didn't believe a word she told me (apart from today's letter - I thnk that'll come).

I'm seriously thinking of looking for a Credit Union. I don't know the technical difference between the two, but Russell's post isn't the first I've heard about CUs being a better bet for 'little people' like us.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 3 Feb 2009 5:52 am

I guess it's different strokes for different folks here !!.....I agree with another poster that this is probably one of the safer forums to deal with since a good majority of the guys and gals that deal here are very stand up folks that you end up being friends with , not just business partners .... Some folks have problems with Postal Money Orders , and others with Banks, and still others with Ebay, Paypal , etc .... Here's my take ....

1) Ebay and Paypal are one of the same ...They are owned by the same company ....Easy to send money , but exremely hard and lengthy to get you money back ....They will side with the larger corporations like Overstock.com or the like before they will side with you ....I had an order that was never shipped, and a letter stating that they did not have the merchandise to ship it ....I wanted a refund .....I had the letter from the company, that stated that they did not have the product and that I should expect a refund ...Not only did I not get the refund, but I had proof that the money was never returned to my PayPal account !!.....It took me over 2 mos and a threat to turn them into my Attorney Generals office before I got my money back into my account ..... Don't be fooled by PayPals guise of backing you up when a problem surfaces ....I know , I know , I hear all the time about how folks have NEVER had a problem with PayPal and have used it for years ....I am happy for you if this is the case , but everybody is your friend when you're sending money to them ....Try getting it back and see how friendly they are !!...

2) I have been sent BAD Certified Checks on more than one occasion . and I have gotten many more personal checks that were bad .... I will not accept either one .....

3) I have not had a single problem with a Postal Money Order and ANY bank will cash them ....They are cheap, safe , and the best currency that I have both sent and recieved for any of my dealings ....

I am speaking only for myself here ....Roger has had issues with a Postal Money Order because his BANK was the problem , not the Postal Money Order .....So the bank was at fault here .... In another case , his bank might have accepted a bad Certified Check and not carefully checked it out ....What would have happened then ? ....Who would he have turned to ? ..... There would have been no actual true bank to go back to ...... Banks can make many mistakes and will be backed by our government ..... They have safegards in place that protect them from various issues .... I won't get started on the Bail Out issue ... I'm the little guy like most of you out there ....We don't get bailed out ....We pay for big business to get bailed out ....Have a nice day !!....Stay Warm !!!....Sincerely, Jim

Tom Keller · Post by **Tom Keller** » 3 Feb 2009 7:03 pm

I have used PayPal for at least the last l0 years. I have it found it to be for my uses by far the best method of transmitting payment. YMMV

Tom Keller · Post by **Tom Keller** » 3 Feb 2009 7:05 pm

Ooops

Tom Keller · Post by **Tom Keller** » 3 Feb 2009 8:37 pm

Sorry for the double post. The Forum was having problems as I was posting. I guess I hit send one time to many.

The Steel Guitar Forum

A word of warning - my bank's error!!!

P.o.m.o.

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