The Steel Guitar Forum

tbhenry wrote:Donny, I think that you should delete your last statement:

"Man, have you got a lot to learn!"

It smacks of arrogance, is somewhat insulting, and really not in keeping with forum rules and decorem.

Naw, Donny should leave it, because it's his personal opinion. Besides, He might actually be right, and if taken to heart, he will be helping someone he is addressing. Please don't be so thin skinned. Am I the most popular guy , now??

James,

more insults
Please don't be so thin skinned.

Once I asked the late great Jeff Newman why he did not become part of this forum. He said, "too many of the insignificant players spend too much time trading insults, instead of playing music." It might be time for me to follow my mentor and walk away from this forum too!

Sorry you took that as an insult, TB. At least I said please, right? I ment it more as advice, that maybe a few of us ARE a little sensitive. Lighten up a little. I ment no harm or insult to you at all, TB. I hope you accept my apology. You are as welcome here as Donny and Pat and Phred and Richard and-----------------

tbhenry wrote:James,

more insults
Please don't be so thin skinned.

Once I asked the late great Jeff Newman why he did not become part of this forum. He said, "too many of the insignificant players spend too much time trading insults, instead of playing music." It might be time for me to follow my mentor and walk away from this forum too!

And these retorts of yours are likened to what he was probably referring to, In my insignificant opinion..

Mentor ?
"act as a confidential helper and guide to another" so he tutored you and took an active interest in your playing career did he ?

You, me, we all, have to learn to play the steel correctly first, in order to better our music. Developing a critical ear, proper picking technique, bar control, knee lever and pedal choice, volume pedal control, staying in tune, all of these things using a good sound system will make me, us, better steelers. Adding effects of any kind, will certainly enhanse your sound, but, in order to get the full advantage of the effect, you must have all the basics down pat. I, personally, like to use an echo or my ProFex 11, but, after 30 yrs of playing I've accomplished about 95% of the basics, so I guess I'm entitled to use my effects if I want to. IMHO.

I think we ALL need to get out more and just play !!

I AGREE!!!! Keep on picking !

That's pick "on" rather than "At" or is it too "Nosey" of me ? (Maybe I shouldn't pick that) 'snot what one's s'posed to do ..

What's it like up beyond Hadrian's Wall" Lads,? It's getting pretty cold down here !!
Methinks it's time to enliven the brew with a smidgeon of malt !
The tea went cold anyway..

basilh wrote:That's pick "on" rather than "At" or is it too "Nosey" of me ? (Maybe I shouldn't pick that) 'snot what one's s'posed to do ..

What's it like up beyond Hadrian's Wall" Lads,? It's getting pretty cold down here !!
Methinks it's time to enliven the brew with a smidgeon of malt !
The tea went cold anyway..

Once I asked the late great Jeff Newman why he did not become part of this forum. He said, "too many of the insignificant players spend too much time trading insults, instead of playing music."

This might also explain the sparse commentary of the other greats.

I believe that is the operative word in the topic. Whatever makes you feel better about your playing will make you play better. If you are hearing the things you want to hear come out of the amplifier, you're going to be more comfortable be looking to expand on that.

Some players are happy with the bare essentials. Some of us aren't. Because a pro picker can sound good on a barely adequate instrument without any electronics doesn't mean they won't sound better with better gear.

They don't buy things like Brad's Rev and Black Box, Effects processors, Match Boxes, etc. 'cause they want something else to carry. They use them because it makes them sound better.

If you have been playing for a good long while and feel like you're doing everything right, have good gear, but are just not happy with your sound, I say it's time to try something different. If it takes a different guitar, pickup change, better cables, volume pedals, picks, amps, effects or a combination of many things, just keep looking 'til you find it...then weld it in place

Generally, it's a circuitous culmination of many things.....technique, practice, etc. then better equipment.... a mental realization of the sound you want to hear... and round and round. Then one day, you just start hearing it happen.

If you are happy with just an amp and a volume pedal, good for you but don't expect everyone else to stop looking for a better sound through gear. I think it's most player's goal to have the best sound they can find. That's what keeps us going. Perhaps some of us are fanatics about it. You have to please yourself. Noone can tell you whether gear is a waste of time and money but you.

As I stated in my earlier posts, you need to have the basics right first, but there's more. The challenge is finding the things that suit younot everyone else.

By any guage, I'm an insignificant player. I admit that. Nevertheless, when some other insignificant or even significant player comes on here and tells other players that they must use what what he uses to get a good sound, I will argue the matter.

As far as my telling him "you have a lot to learn" being insulting, it would be good to go back and study the remarks that caused me to make that judgement. It was not a snap decision, and it was not done in malice. Rather, it was a "fatherly type" reminder that his observations and opinions may not be anywhere near as valid as he thinks they are.

basilh wrote:... play more with other people as much as you can....

Absolutely. I learned more in a few hours at Basil's place than I did in months of trying to figure it all out on my own.

What would make my playing better would be concentrating on playing in tune instead of getting ahead of myself and bouncing round the fretboard.

Jerry Overstreet said it all and got it right on the money.

It could be because some people don't understand how some effects really works and how to set them properly.

I understand that you don't need to have effects to sound good but with some good effects you can sound better.IMHO

i could respond to some of the last replys but it would be off topic...%$#^&*

i rest my case

Hey tb, When you said:

"too many of the insignificant players spend too much time trading insults, instead of playing music."

Ya don't have to walk away, "they were talking about me.":D

I didn't see where anyone said anything wrong. What I did see, were tons of good information given out on the question asked.

Note:

It seems (at times) too many folks get their feelings hurt too easily. It's a forum and as such, people are people, and each have varying opinions on things, "just as it should be."

What bothers me more, is to hear someone say things such as, "It's against the forum rules."

With all due respect, I haven't seen anything said to anyone that would indicate that at all. Simply people voicing their own opinions on things.

I'd much rather have someone speak out exactly how they feel about things, (or me) and tell it straight up, as they, see it to be. That's what folks are suppose to do. Not telling anyone straingt up, (is to me) being less than a truthful answer, as to how they really feel, on whatever subject it happens to be.

Don

Basil, forgive me for any confusion regarding my mentor. According to dictionary.com


men·tor /ˈmɛntɔr, -tər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[men-tawr, -ter] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a wise and trusted counselor or teacher.

That is what I meant. I spent many hours with Jeff Newman. Sometimes in his classes and, sometimes alone with him at his mountain hideaway about 60 miles from where I live. Yes, he taught me and counseled me regarding pedal steel guitar. I hope this clarifies my comments.

Mr. Newman was MANY steel player's mentor. His contribution to the steel community was great.

Having a good mentor is a very good thing to help one excel on the steel guitar.

Sorry about that TB, over here we interpret "Mentor" slightly differently..as a teacher and one who PROMOTES the student to the world in general and particularly within their peers.
As in Simon Cowell being mentor to his protégé's

But having lessons from Jeff Newman AND being his confidante in matters of steel guitar I would have thought that you also wouldn't have placed so much importance on ancillaries as being necessary "Tools of the Trade" and interjected with some comment on THAT subject rather than lambaste Donny for exercising his right to say what are his impressions of the merits of other posts... Isn't that what forums are for ?
Forum

Since you can ADD effects, but not REMOVE them, doesn't it make more sense to record each instrument on a different track and without any processing, and then process them during the mixdown ?

I realise that you can't always do that when you're performing on stage, and you might not like the way the guy with the mixing board is changing your sound.

Some good ideas here.

I think a very helpful thing is to practice with a metronome. Start out at a very (painfully) slow tempo and slowly increase your speed. Practice with both light picking and hard picking.

I think this is the most important (yet the most overlooked) thing that really helps a musician become accomplished on his instrument.

If you don't have a metronome, a drum machine works too.

Just 15 minutes a day (of this torture) will make a big difference in your overall playing.

Take two aspirin and call me in the morning.

Billy, I've told this befor BUT, I did a showcase one time and my rack was stolen. I had to go right from my volume pedal to the board. Of course I thought it sounded awful. However, everyone in the band came up to tell me they didn't really notice any big difference. I even had another steel player in the crowd ask me what I used to get that GREAT TONE. I told him my hands. Literally that's all I had.

Forgive my impertinence, but aren't we all missing something here? We're all inwards-looking at effects, attack, bar-technique, volume-pedal settings, amp-settings etc - all of which are highly contributory to great playing - but as far as I have seen no-one has mentioned something which can really extend your playing - being versatile!

Listen to different musical genres, especially those without pedal steel, Then imagine how you'd play steel in that music to add to it. Or, take your favourite piece of music which has steel-guitar in it and try to think of a totally different way of playing the steel parts. Different licks, grips, voicings. Try it "dry" and with effects. Learn to think about how the steel can improve the music as a whole entity, not just how you can make your own sound better within itself. I'm willing to bet that if you do that then your own playing will improve dramatically anyway.

Put the totality of the music ahead of your own sound, and make your playing contribute to enhancing the total sound. After all, isn't that really why we play this incredible instument in the first place; we have this deep desire to augment and enhance the music as only the pedal steel guitar can.

When I think of versatility I think of the great session steel-players. Rugg, Myrick, Green - and I think of the versatility each has. My 1970s copedent was Lloyd Green's because of what an incredible variety of sounds he got from it. I knew the limits were in my own mind and that listening to different styles and genres of music would force me to expand my limits and hopefully make me a better steel-guitar player.

Sure, it's nice to have the great choice of digital effects in a rack to choose from, but thirty years back a lot of those didn't exist and yet the players were still making great, one might almost say "classic", steel sounds with just the volume pedal, amp and whatever the engineer was able to do in the mixdown before it was mastered for vinyl (when everything below 70Hz was ruthlessly filtered out to prevent the groove excursion eating up too much of the precious 12" vinyl real-estate!)

I'm not saying don't use effects, what I am saying is being versatile could be considered one of the finest effects available - and it only costs you your time and practice to achieve it.

Excellent points Ned and Whip.

Ned,

Creating fresh new ideas to expand the unlimited potential of this great instrument is a formidable goal. Of course,some guys have taken the instrument to new levels. Your reminding us that we all have the possibility to break the barriers if we can just practice on creating some fresh new ideas.

Your post is something that we should all take to heart. Thanks for the inspiration!

Whip,
Your post says a lot about your ability to pull off the showcase even though the odds were really stacked against you. It proves that you're a total pro. You showed that you were able to pull off your part even though you were dealing with a major setback. Losing that rack sure must have been a severly depressing issue. Kudos to you!

but as far as I have seen no-one has mentioned something which can really extend your playing - being versatile!

I think that saying diversify would probably qualify as similar. Did you read ALL the pages of this topic ?

Back one page :-

basilh wrote: As for the original question, Billy, play more with other people as much as you can.... Have you wondered why the top players are so good, one of the reasons is that they are constantly diversifying stylistically as they play varied sessions, and have to remember the stylistic nuances they have applied to each performers records.
Practising MEMORY is quite relative to this discussion.