The Steel Guitar Forum

This Topic! What is it about New Country? First of all, My Good Buddy " Toby Keith " don't even fit in this topic, because he is not new. With respect to you youngers on this forum who over load your fingers in writting crazy things about talent or musicians, it's the heads of who ever they are, (I know)you need to get to them for what is it about New Country. LJ

Sorry, Dale Watson is not a great singer, compared to others.
That is why, he's not heard on Commerical Radio!

Theresa Galbraith wrote:I guess fans are liking what they hear on the radio today!

I respectfully disagree with you Theresa. The crap we hear on the radio today is a result of the force feeding tactis of those money grubbing folks in Gnashville...who are chasing nothing less than the almighty dollar. I went to see Merle a few weeks ago and my heart broke to hear him say "They won't play my songs on the radio anymore". How's that for respect? One of the living legends in the world of country music and the Gaylords won't allow his music to be played. As you undoubtedy know, they won't even hire song writers over the age of 35.

The writers and singers of today's country sound are but a glimmer in the lives of those that wrote and sang about the lives they lived.

New country is a lot like rap. No one ever heard of it until they were told it was good End of rant.

Theresa Galbraith wrote:Sorry, Dale Watson is not a great singer, compared to others.
That is why, he's not heard on Commerical Radio!

good grief.

Dale Watson is a GREAT singer. All the auto tune in the world does not a good singer make. I suppose Willie Nelson isnt a great singer compared to others either....does it matter at all? not to me..guess it might to some. Perfect vocal pitch cannot make a horrible hackneyed cliched souless song any more palatable for me.

Saying people like new country is the same as saying people like potato chips, MacDonald's and Marrs Bars. Many people don't know what's good or bad for them, especially the illiterate and poor. They have become addicted to crap food - and crap music. It's all about the advertising. Just look at the fat we carry around on our bodies. It's complete insanity. People's minds are just as trashed by this new crap they're playing on the radio. It's the dumbed-down mentality. It's the way big business likes the herd to behave. It is a dangerous slope. Some of us know the difference, but many do not.

Kashi cereal is a lot better for you than Fruit Loops, but who has the bigger advertising budget? Sure, Fruit Loops "tastes" better, but why? Because big business has brainwashed us into it. It's true what others are saying on this thread. We've been brainwashed by big business, and new country is only one small example of it. Just look at how big business and the government interact. They DO NOT want you to think for yourself. If you are an independent thinker, your music money goes to artists like Dale Watson who actively oppose the status quo - something the "machine" does not like. I never underestimate the control the machine has in this so-called "democracy".

Theresa Galbraith wrote:Sorry, Dale Watson is not a great singer, compared to others.
That is why, he's not heard on Commerical Radio!

Theresa, Are you implying that what we hear on commercial radio is great singing? That makes me sad.
Think I'll go somewhere and cry myself to sleep.

The big labels tell the artists what to sing, and how to make it sound. Thats why a real artist like Ricky Scaggs started his own company, so he can produce music the way he wants to, not what others want him to. This is much deeper than around the early 60's where the companies told the artists how they wanted them to make crossover songs, to sound like pop .

In my opinion,Dale Watson is the absolute BEST out there today,Not ONE in the top forty so-called country charts can get close to him,The suits in Nashwood ostracize him because he won't conform and do the pitiful pop rock crap they call country.they say he's [TOO COUNTRY FOR COUNTRY]where have you heard that &^%$ before? Does the name Cash come to mind,Seems years ago there was a couple guys run out of Nashwood because they would'nt kiss the butts of the producers and exc.What were those guys names? Oh yeah,think it was Waylon and Willie.It's a shame they NEVER made it.DYKBC.

Well, I did find a few words of wisdom in this thread...

There's still some good music out there, so let's enjoy what we can!

The golden age of music will always be what you liked and was moderately to very popular when you were 15-25 and everything since then that deviates will always be crap.

Knock it off. Times change. Don't get so bitter. Grow with it, or wither in the corner. I see what choice you've made. I hope I never get there.

I really think the anger at the performers is misplaced - much better to just do what we like and ignore the background noise.

I generally read threads like this just before bed...way better than Tylenol PM...

John,Not as good as Vicadin.

Around this area, folks seemed to be starved for live dance music. A lot of older folks don't want to go to the bar/clubs at all, and don't care much for the private clubs either. What has happened around here is that little "shows" have started popping up over the last few years. A guy or a group will find a building, get a band together, get some kitchen help to sell a few dogs and soda, and go at it. The majority of these little shows will feature local talent that get up and sing a couple of songs at a time. It is an "Opry" style of format. Some of these shows feature really good bands and performers, and some not so hot, but it must be entertaining because they are doing OK. I have talked to two different private club owners lately. They are bemoaning the fact that now they cannot find GOOD dance bands (country and 50's rock) for the older members. I reminded them that THEY are the ones that caused this problem. Hiring bands that could only play loud loud loud and not much dance stuff. Plus the fact that they went "on the cheeeeep" and would hire in groups who would work for next to nothing. Then they also opted for disc jockeys and karaoke crap. Now, a good many of the older local musicians, the ones who KNOW how to play that mucic, have retired and refuse to go out any more. There are those that have passed on also. One of my gigs is a monthly get together like this. We have a six piece band, fiddle, guitar, steel, drum, bass, and a rythem/front man. The place we play has a dance floor and food. We have been there three years and due to fire laws, are only allowed 250 (smile) bodies in the building. We have had to turn away folks at the door when there just was no more seating or standing room. The dance floor is almost always packed at every song, and there are still some line dancers even. We play the older country, mixed with some grass and 50's stuff. All of the pickers belong to other bands also. So my point is this....there IS a market for live, good country music it seems. It's just an older crowd, like us, and they need catered to. If we are waiting for these folks to show up at the local dive or the Moose on the week end. Forget it. Oh, BTW, many of the local entertainers have made CD's which they sell themselves by going to the different shows around, and some do OK with this. We would last one time if we went to "modern country" because NO ONE would come back.........

I play in a classic country band here in Newfoundland, and we regular play to sold out shows and big festivals. People here love the old country. We just released a CD of classics and had about 400 people attend the release party just two nights ago.

This success playing classic country makes me even more appalled at the crap that passes for country music today. In fact, if you just sit back and take it, you're contributing to the problem. The whole attitude of "times change, move on" is just keeping your head in the sand and not trying to upset the apple cart, especially if it's a source of income for you. If somehow one thinks that Kenny Chesney is our modern Hank or Waylon, you gotta be deaf. How do you grow with something that has no roots? A genuine concern for the demise of country music cannot be passed off as bitterness. Most of us here who dislike new country are not going around all day angry at it. We're just stating a point that the lyrics are weak, the melodies overdone, and the production cookie cutter.

All you have to do is go see Jones or Haggard to see what they think of the new country. They are very vocal about the quality of what passes for country today. I value their opinions highly.

Chris LeDrew wrote:I play in a classic country band here in Newfoundland, and we regular play to sold out shows and big festivals. People here love the old country. We just released a CD of classics and had about 400 people attend the release party just two nights ago.

This success playing classic country makes me even more appalled at the crap that passes for country music today. In fact, if you just sit back and take it, you're contributing to the problem. The whole attitude of "times change, move on" is just keeping your head in the sand and not trying to upset the apple cart, especially if it's a source of income for you. If somehow one thinks that Kenny Chesney is our modern Hank or Waylon, you gotta be deaf. How do you grow with something that has no roots? A genuine concern for the demise of country music cannot be passed off as bitterness. Most of us here who dislike new country are not going around all day angry at it. We're just stating a point that the lyrics are weak, the melodies overdone, and the production cookie cutter.

All you have to do is go see Jones or Haggard to see what they think of the new country. They are very vocal about the quality of what passes for country today. I value their opinions highly.

Amen.

RC Antolina wrote:

Theresa Galbraith wrote:I guess fans are liking what they hear on the radio today!

I respectfully disagree with you Theresa. The crap we hear on the radio today is a result of the force feeding tactis of those money grubbing folks in Gnashville...who are chasing nothing less than the almighty dollar. I went to see Merle a few weeks ago and my heart broke to hear him say "They won't play my songs on the radio anymore". How's that for respect? One of the living legends in the world of country music and the Gaylords won't allow his music to be played. As you undoubtedy know, they won't even hire song writers over the age of 35.

The writers and singers of today's country sound are but a glimmer in the lives of those that wrote and sang about the lives they lived.

New country is a lot like rap. No one ever heard of it until they were told it was good End of rant.

Amen again.

This will be my last rant on this issue :

I've played with alot of bands that did the older traditional country and some of it was great yet some boring and overplayed.

At the same time I've been with bands that play the Top 40 new Country and this is either BAD or also overplayed (note: I did not say Boring but Bad).

How come in order to play the bigger (250+ people) clubs we need to play the newer country ??
If you did the older traditional all you get are the smaller dumps that don't appreciate a good band ??
At least it is this way in Dallas but yet in Ft. Worth the traditional/swing music is a hit ?? HMMMM

Like everyone said " it is the brainwashing from the radio and the video channels".
The younger generation haven't heard or know the traditional songs are older and won't give them a chance, hence this is why we need guys like Alan Jackson, Blake Shelton, Dwight Yoakum, George Strait to keep this bridge open and lure the younger generation to open their eyes & ears.

When I play to the younger / bigger crowds I use alot of my effects because the song calls for it or I do my own thing and the younger crowd love it to see a steel that is able to immitate other instruments and are genuinely interrested in steel then. Maybe that is what it takes to help the know about of steel out there is to do such things and get EVERYBODY'S attention.

I'll go out on the limb here alittle and say this, boy I know I'll hear it but oh well it will make good discussion.
When I go to the steel shows and walk from room to room all the steel playing I here sounds like the guy in the previous rooms - same licks/style/songs etc...
I love it when I see steel being used in newer music becasue it is still alive and getting bigger and more wanted but the player needs to conform for this music to keep it there.
This is where the older and younger steel player and the older / younger listener are different !!
It is totally a generation gap of thinking.
I've seen Buddy Emmon, Paul Franklin, Rusty Young use effects and sounded great.
In today's music the steel has to be more verstile instead of the clean sound only.
Please understand I love the clean sound also but it only will not feed today's market only - sad to say.

What would happen if you took a old traditional country song and changed it's listening approach to the current listener ??
It has been done in the past but you rarely here it now - remember Sawyer Brown re-doing
"Six Days on the Road" , there was a remake of "Going with the Flow" that was re-introduced and the young crowd loved it, it played alot on the radio !!!

Maybe it all comes down to the approach/delivery and better talent to do so that will make everybody happy.
Why do we have to do the traditional EXACTLY like the original back 30, 40 or 50 years ago ??
Why restrict good songs to this - perform a re-birth to them to make them appealing again !!

I completely agree with just going out and playing some classic country music (and some good old rock and roll, blues, jazz, or whatever else you want, too). I'm doing the same - I play periodically with some folks who normally play old-time country music, in the sense of the Carter Family, Uncle Dave Macon, the Fruit Jar Drinkers, Possum Hunters, and more. But when I join them, we play classic country from the 40s through 60s, nothing newer. Hank to Lefty to Ray Price to Merle to Jones and so on. We get great crowds and a lot of local interest outside of the college music scene. They have a good following for the old-time stuff, and increasingly, people are asking specifically for the pedal steel classic-country version. There is definitely an audience out there, at least here in Central PA.

But I like to listen to, and play, lots of other styles of music as well. I'll speak my piece on the state of a lot of commercial music, including some aspects of modern country. But it isn't all garbage - I hear interesting things sometimes. Music, and the cultures it comes out of, get new influences and move in new directions.

You don't have to like any of this, and can just go your merry way. But the personal invective I hear a lot on this forum is completely uncalled for, IMHO. There is a lot of music in the world. Not all of it is, nor should it be, based on the same musical and cultural values of traditional country music. I think a lot of people, not just here, confuse a different form of music - based on different musical and cultural values - with "bad" music. It's one thing to say "I can't relate to this music.", but quite another thing to say "That music is garbage, and the people playing it are talentless degenerates."

As for Dale Watson - IMHO, he is the best of the best of living country singers right now. He's in his prime, and has a tremendous voice. I hear a lot of great influences, including Merle, Ray Price, and others in his inflections, but he's made it into his own. He has a good range, and good classic country singing skills. Like anybody - he may not be someone's taste, no problem. But he has the courage of his convictions to do it his own way, mainstream success or not. I'd like to see 100 more like him.

But that doesn't mean that all the modern country singers who go the commercial route are talentless hacks. Not everybody is willing to eschew commercial success for their pure artistic concept. Country music has been, for many decades, a largely commercial style which has moved with the times, leaving a long wake of people bemoaning the changes for a pretty long time now. Nothing new here, the way I see it.

There are serious structural problems in the communications and entertainment business. The FCC has allowed an oligopoly of communications companies to exploit OUR airwaves and destroy the commercial potential of anything outside the purview of the 10-35 year old demographic they are trying to reach. But it does absolutely no good to complain about the people who are just out there making a living in that realm. The problem lies elsewhere.

All my opinions, of course.

for me, its not a question of singing talent or skill. i just cannot deal with the SONGS in new country and more specifically its the lyrics that make it cringe worthy and unbearable for me.

Dave - it seems like geography has alot to do with what a crowd wants.

I'm from PA also (born & raised)and from 1976 to 1990 I played in Philadelphia area but all the gigs and audience were in New Jersey (all Southern NJ)!!!
Only during "Urban Cowboy " craze was it in the city of Phila.
What I said about the difference between Dallas and Ft Worth, not far apart geographically but musically is.

I plan to move back to PA with in the next couple of years - I miss the beauty of the state, I'm melting now in Texas.
I hope the music market stays tuned to real country such as your area so when I return i'll have more to look forward to.
I was thinking in the Williamsport area , don't want to go back to Philly !!
Before moving to Texas in 2001 we lived in Northern PA towards Corning , NY like I said ""BEAUTIFUL" !!

Enough talk about "old country", "new country" etc... either it's country or it ain't, and what they play on the top 40 radio ain't. Thank God for XM and Willie's place. I'm glad to pay $12.00 per month to hear what I want to.

To my ears, Texas Swing full of C6, is not country either. Neither is bluegrass, and old time music is not bluegrass because it contains a fiddle and banjo.

It's not worth debating on how it ought to be. It is what it is and we have no choice but accept it and listen to what we want and turn the rest off.

I thought when Flatt and Scruggs played with Bill Monroe that was considered bluegrass.Wasn't there a fiddle and banjo in there somewhere?I'll have to listen again real close this time.

Sex appeal quarterbacks will come to pass....
you can't beat that!
TW

Lonnie,

You missed the point. My statement was confusing. Yes, Bill Monroe was bluegrass. He invented it. The point was that old time music is NOT the same thing as bluegrass music just because it uses a banjo and fiddle. Both are acoustic, but that's where the similarities end. Folk music is not bluegrass either. Bill Monroe had a very limited defination of his music, he didn't mean for it to exceed the boundries he set for it. I worked for him in 1994 and I can tell you first hand that he was very cautious that he kept his sound the way he intended.

In my opinion, The Beverly Hillbilly's and HeeHaw are the two worst things that ever happended to bluegrass and country music. It presented the image that we are all a bunch of uneducated, backward, hicks. Almost every week someone ask me if I'm "picking and grinning" this weekend. That makes my blood boil, but they don't know any better...it was programmed into them by Buck and Roy's skit. Bill Monroe despised that attitude and always insisted that his band dress in suits and ties and present a professional image to his fans.

Don't mean to get away from the country discussion. So, to put it back on track. What is referred to as country on today's TV and top 40 radio....sucks as far as I'm concerned.

One of the best things about living in Seattle, is for the most part people reject mainstream media influence. You get laughed at for trying to be on mainstream radio. Its one of the few holdouts where local is better than mass produced. You can go out and see very good examples of just about any style of music you can think of here. You wont get rich, but you can have a good time with a great community of people. Those of you in classic country bands should try and get a show at the tractor tavern up here if your touring the west coast. Youll have a great time and play with some great bands that appreciate good music. The bad part is that people up here have not figured out how to fry chicken yet. Once that happens Seattle will be a great place to live.

I think Chris nailed it, marketing sells things to us now; Not quality, but brand placement and repetition. Let the lemmings jump of the cliff. Do you really want those people coming to your shows anyways?

When I have kids, Im gonna take em to live shows. No radio or TV. I dont want them thinking mountain dew is a sports drink, or that McD fat-burgers is a playground, and I dont want them listening to Murder-rap, watching people get seriously injured with a laugh track in the back-ground for entertainment, playing video games where punching women and stealing cars gets you points, or listening to phonies pretend to be southern.

To make a buck the mainstream media is polluting our minds with garbage with no regard to the consequences.

Hows that for a rant

I love it.I'm out breath just reading it.

Now I understand what you were writing Rick.Thanks for clearing it up for me.We are in agreement.