Link to Sho~Bud Forum Deal Gone Bad

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 21 Jul 2008 7:36 am

I think that Danny is right on target here.
I just got an email from Mac less than 5 minutes ago and the steel has been boxed and shipped by UPS to Danny.
As far as Paypal that is still being persued by Mac's wife as the Paypal account is in her name, but I think Danny is right there again and I doubt little if anything will come of it.
As far as the threats to Mac, "they are real."
God bless Danny and Coop and you fellow members for helping out my dear friend Mac.
Don

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 21 Jul 2008 7:53 am

wouldnt threats of bodily harm also be actionable?
Im not a letigious person but its seems like this guy is dangerous and needs a "time out" (at best) before he gets himself or someone else hurt.

Jim Simon · Post by **Jim Simon** » 21 Jul 2008 3:24 pm

This is not the first time that Danny has jumped in to help in a crisis. My hat is off to both Danny and the Coop. Donation on the way. You are a class act Danny.

Danny Hullihen · Post by **Danny Hullihen** » 22 Jul 2008 1:21 pm

As of today, the following people have sent donations to help cover the shipping costs on Mac's guitar.

Daniel McKenna, Daniel Bates, Leslie Spieth, Eric Dunlop. Peter Lenz. (some contributors have asked to remain anonymous)

In total, we have received $150.00, which I believe is more than enough to cover the shipping on Mac's guitar both ways.

A special heart-felt thanks to all of you that have made donations to help Mac with this, and I'm sure Mac appreciates this very much too.

Mac's guitar should arrive here this Thursday, and I will get working on it for him right away.

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 23 Jul 2008 12:50 am

Danny, If you have a camera, please take some before and after pics.

You and Coop are great men for doing this. Thank You

This forum is great. We can't let one person spoil it for any of us.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 23 Jul 2008 4:07 am

Don Sulesky wrote:As far as Paypal that is still being persued by Mac's wife as the Paypal account is in her name, but I think Danny is right there again and I doubt little if anything will come of it.
Don

I don't know why you have this opinion. I went through this. It works...you just have to jump through all the offical Paypal hoops. If you will follow my suggestions I gave earlier this will be a done deal.

Brian Kurlychek · Post by **Brian Kurlychek** » 23 Jul 2008 4:28 am

Paypal works on the buyer's side if you know how to do it.

Normally, In order to get your money back a couple of things need to happen. The first is the item needs to be certified by an "expert" that it is not as described.

The second thing is that the unit would need to be returned to the shipper with proof of return. UPS tracking number would suffice.

This should get you "ALL" of your money back.

Since it seems you are deciding to keep the guitar and have it fixed:

I would suggest that the purchaser keep reciepts of the costs of shipping the item to the tech and have the person doing the repair work write up an invoice of cost of parts and labor.

At least then, you might be compensated from paypal for it. If not by Paypal reversing the funds from Darts account, Paypal self insures their transactions, and this avenue should recover some if not all of the expense.

Like Bob said, everyone is quick to jump in and help and that is wonderful, but you can work the system. Having paid by Paypal is better than having written a check, or sending a money order where there would be no way of recovering your money.

Remember, there are two ways to get things done. One way is to return it asking paypal for a full refund, and the other is asking for a partial refund to offset the cost of repairs.

No one on this forum should have to pay money so that Darrt can keep it.

Dealing with Paypal is like dealing with a computer, not a human being. You can (almost) never contact anyone directly. They have policies and procedures (they are Ebay after all). You need to do your research and then do exactly what they require in order to get compensated.

Also, their policies will change on a whim. How it is done today may not be the case tomorrow.

I had a good friend who worked on the inside of Ebay for a few years so I know how they operate.

Edited to add: When you make a fraud claim, paypal will freeze the amount in question in account of the seller. It will put a hold on the money while the case is being investigated. They suck it right out of his account. If the seller has already removed the money, the account will go into the negative. If it is ruled that you are to be awarded your money back - you get it back, and he gets a negative balance. So even if he spent the money you can still get it back.

John Coop · Post by **John Coop** » 23 Jul 2008 5:35 am

This guy has another Super Pro listed on E-Bay right now Coop

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 23 Jul 2008 5:52 am

Bill & Bryan
You may be right that he may get something back from Paypal but as far as seeing a dime back from the dart he told Mac outright he won't give him back any money and threatened to bring Mac to court.

I just looked on Ebay and the steel he has for sale is the same one he was selling to Mac.
The exact pictures Mac has on file in his computer.
Yet, this dude switched steels and sent him the one with a painted black bottom.
Don

Updated to add Ebay info.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 23 Jul 2008 6:31 am

his ad even mentions his previous misdeed:

1973 to 78 Sho's (out of tune) MY ORIGINAL 1979 Sho-Bud Super Pro 8p 5k Ser.13130 "Standard" E9th Cromatic / C6th min7 #2. w/Original Tweed Case(like new) #3. w/Original first Narrow Volume Pedal made,not like you see and have bought "bait and switch" on the Steel Guitar web.site's.

cant this guy be stopped somehow?...this just isnt right

Danny Hullihen · Post by **Danny Hullihen** » 23 Jul 2008 6:49 am

Brian, that is some very good advice you have shared here for Mac, and from what I understand, Mac is working on doing that. Although Mac may or not be able to get all his money back, or at least a portion of it, personally, I would much rather see criminal charges being brought against this person. I don't believe a person who committs these sort of crimes would really care much about any negative balance on his Paypal account, as he could easily find ways to get around that. However, if a prosecuting attorney can be convinced that a crime has been committed here, (which I believe is quite obvious) then he would eventually be brought to justice which would indeed cost this guy a lot more than any refund would have. This is an obvious "bait & switch" and was committed intentionally!

In any event, if Mac discovers he needs receipts on this for any reason, I can provide him with that too on legal letter head. My only goal here is to provide Mac with a guitar he'll be proud to own and play, and hopefully put all of this behind him so that he can get on with enjoying his life.

For the record, I do not personally know Mac. I've never met him, and in fact, I've never even talked to him on the phone. Nonetheless, I would be happy to do the same for ANY fellow steel player who was in need of help.

bob is right, this is all moving forward pretty fast, and for that I say great! The sooner this gentleman can put all of this stress and sadness behind him, the better.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 23 Jul 2008 7:18 am

JOHN COOP wrote:This guy has another Super Pro listed on E-Bay right now Coop

Dardeman told me via email last week that he sent Mac pictures of both of his Super Pro guitars, and that Mac picked the lesser of the two. The misunderstanding probably arose from Dardeman's poor communication skills. If things happened as he claims, it's likely that Mac didn't realize he was looking at two different guitars in the pictures.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 23 Jul 2008 7:28 am

if that were the case , it seems odd that he would mention "bait and switch" in his ebay add.
he seems to be taking a back handed stab at the forum and almost bragging about the bait and switch that he pulled here.
guess its none of my business...just irksome to see such a brazen crook seemingly get away with it.

Lonnie Zsigray · Post by **Lonnie Zsigray** » 23 Jul 2008 8:27 am

That still doesn't explain selling a guitar that needs extensive surgury right off the bat,especially for that kind of money.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 23 Jul 2008 8:27 am

Mac
Received only one set of photos which I reduced for him to see on his computer.
They were NOT of the steel he received
It was a "bait and switch" deal.

Update to post below.
The photos I see on his Ebay site now are the same photos I have and the steel that should be owned by Mac now and not up for sale on Ebay.
Also if he has been selling on Ebay for 8 months then I'm quite sure he knows how to post the right photos.
He's not as dumb as he wants us to think he is.
Don

admin · Post by **b0b** » 23 Jul 2008 11:11 am

The guy isn't good with a computer. I think he believes his own story, even though Mac didn't receive pictures of both guitars. He didn't understand how to post a message on the Forum, so it's easy to see how he could botch email attachments.

I'm not saying that he's "innocent" here - he should have made it right long ago - but I do think that he's a very confused person who should not be allowed to do business via the Internet.

My hat's off to Danny, Coop, and all of the forum buddies who are making the repairs possible. You guys are great!

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 23 Jul 2008 12:12 pm

These are his current business accomplishments on the Net:

His eBay Store
http://stores.ebay.com/thedartt65save-the-steels

Check the seller's reputation
Feedback Score: 29 - 96.8% Positive
Member since: Nov-26-07

Carl Vilar · Post by **Carl Vilar** » 23 Jul 2008 3:24 pm

B0B there is something wrong with that guy mentally just for the hell of it I emailed him from Ebay and told him I was intrested in his Bud but would like to see better pics because they were dark and for almost 3K I would like to see better pics. I also said that I was concern about the negative feedback he had gotten on Ebay from his last sale. And asked about what was he talking about bait and switch here is his answer to me copied and pasted from my Ebay mail. sounds like he's off the wall...What's up with taking paypal tommorow ONLY??????????

I don't know if I want to sell the Super to you? Why? cus I sell to musicion's that know me and trust me and pay a little more for the good shi. You pay for what you get,right? We all have known that,if your wize. I have a cling,clinic,clinical,clinician,clintel prigram, that works in this game of "bait and switch". That BS don't happen on a trusted site. ebay,"the only steel guitar trusted web. site left", where to buy and from who you know.I'm known. If your not a spoof or phishing,then buy from me, because I would ketch you and let abay and paypal and others know. I'm a steel guitar investigator. I don't know you yet?,but I will,If you are a spook.I have bought from steel players with 6 negatives and more.Us seller's have to deal with that,like the 1 negative you say I got.?.If I got 1 neg.,it din't come off ebay.You got to get up real early in the morning to beat me. ebay and paypal,trust. You understand,Bro.? Don't buy pre. 79 Sho-Buds. If you do,then you have to get into "there" game and beat them at there OWN game to give back to them what you bought from them.whew! Tricky,huh!,ain't it. I did that long time ago.PS: This Super Pro(the only and best model)is $2900. Now,your buying something that will stay with you for a long time.It's been cared for and pampered.These other brands,(Corter,fuzzy Bud,kekhnzhske,"new",$5,000 and amore a,that don't live up to this name: 79 Sho-Bud Super Pro.,by far out play's and shines. and you fesl kool,dignafied on a band stand with an Sho-Bud or 65emmons. I believe you know that.I only take paypal.tomorrow.Thanks Bro....thedartt65

Lonnie Zsigray · Post by **Lonnie Zsigray** » 23 Jul 2008 3:51 pm

Uh,um,

what did he say in all that?Sounds like the nurse should be gettin' him back to his room.

Lonnie Zsigray · Post by **Lonnie Zsigray** » 23 Jul 2008 3:54 pm

Is that Uri Kehnzhske,the russian steel builder?

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 23 Jul 2008 3:58 pm

Carl
This answer looks almost 100% like the email response he wrote to Mac when he said he was interested in his steel guitar.
He must lay this same line of crap on everyone who writes him.
He mentioned the phishing line etc. to Mac also.
Who's really doing the phishing here?
Thanks for the inquiry. You have made our point or should I say he has with his own words.
He's a sick puppy!

Don

Carl Vilar · Post by **Carl Vilar** » 23 Jul 2008 4:20 pm

Yeah Lonnie remember him from the old USSR great builder

Don I would have ran the other way so fast. I love that he says he's a steel guitar investigator

and a well known seller with that 29 score with 96.8% I got 644 100%

Well I emailed him back and told him he sounded more like a steel guitar A$$%#%# than an investigator. Anyways they shouldn't let the guys in the psychiatric ward use the computers. Too bad Mac fell for it. Danny and Coop are a great bunch of guys and should be commended for their generosity we have a great community here that will reach out in a time of need to help out a fellow steeler and brother.

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 23 Jul 2008 7:41 pm

I removed my post because I felt like I was adding too much "fuel to the fire".

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 23 Jul 2008 7:54 pm

sumpthin phisshy bout him...an he'z a lowsy spellerr!!

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 23 Jul 2008 10:13 pm

He stinks like a 3 week old dead fish.

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