The Steel Guitar Forum

I wonder if we'll all still be reading this same debate between Mssrs. Perlowin and Sliff ten years from now? Can't you guys just agree to disagree and move on? Go have a Pepsi or sumthin'... Sheesh!

Here is Chicago there are 4 or 5 of us in our late 20's or early 30's who are playing now. I'm 32 and I started about 6 years ago with no plans to quit. We all have bands to play in, so it's not that bleak here. It would be nice to have more opportunities to play than we do, but all that said, things look alright.

Gabriel

Let me add my thought. A lot of the orders for new Steels are probably from the older guys because they are now more secure...either retired with a pension or near retirement. These guys always loved the Steel but they did not have the time to play because their jobs may have been too demanding. Now that they are mortgage free, children free and have more time for their hobby they rekindle their interest and order the best new steels without any intention of playing in clubs, for the most part...they do it for theirselves because they love the sound. Only the builders would really know the answer as to what age group buys new steels....my bet is that 80% are sold to guys 50 plus.

Hmmm, you might be right. However, I'm one of the old geezers (66) that love the old buds. My personal collection has 2 buds and 1 Marrs and I serioiusly doubt if I'll ever "uprade".

Brad, I don't think that's entirely true. I'm one of the older dudes. Who bought my steel brand new, (had to wait while it was being built) and played that same steel for a living, and raised a family of four children during that period.

Now I'm more or less retired due to health reasons, but it's not beyond my reach to possibly try a new steel one of these days or simply another steel. Hey! A change is always good at times. Besides this one hasn't sat around idle, she's been worked to death, and well deserves a rest too.

Don

Guys, if you think steel guitar is "dying" now in 2008, I am curious as to when you are comparing. I believe it’s as healthy as it has been in my 49 years if not more so. This is largely driven by availability of mass produced high quality instruments. No one year wait for a Bigsby or fingertip ShoBud!

Maybe lap steel was more popular when they sold Oahu courses door to door? But I imagine steel has never been 10% as popular as standard guitar and even less popular than other popular instruments like….. a saxophone for instance.

Your mileage may vary......

No complaints here

The forum membership is now over 7200 members. It was about half that when I joined about 5 years ago, as I recall.

I have the same experience as John Steele - younger musicians that I run into at shared venues like festivals and variety shows are really attracted to the steel and gather around when they get the chance. I know a couple of younger up-and-coming players in my town, one of whom is a student of mine. And other musicians have told me that they are really pleased to be playing with a steel. I'm not particularly playing country though.

As for the conventions, Chris LeDrew's observation is the same one I have - when I was in my twenties I simply could not have afforded to go jetting off to some far away town, stay in a hotel, etc. In the early days I would hear about the St. Lois convention, but it seemed a complete impossibility to attend something like that.

It's pretty hard to quarrel with the cost of steels these days - adjusted for inflation the five hundred and some-odd dollars that I paid for a new Sidekick in 77 (a large financial sacrifice at the time) would surely buy a good professional model now.

Jim Sliff wrote: Mike my friend, you are neglecting the fact that there are not that many country bands...or gigs...

This unfortunately is true. I don't know where today's younger players can get the kind of learning experience I and so many others had in years past.

George Burns once said that vaudeville gave performers the chance to hone their skills (much the same way I said that playing in bars gave us pickers the same opportunity,) and lamented that with it's death, aspiring performers had no place to do that.

I'm glad I got into playing steel when I did and had a chance to play all those gig where I was able to build up my chops. I think the demise of the club scene is really hurting a lot of musicians in general and up and coming steel players in particular.

I'm 52, A Country steel and 6 string player and getting older each and every day and glad I ain't 18 anymore.. I'm just that much closer to going home and seeing my Dad, and all of my family that left before me..
But not tomorrow Lord Please..... I have a lot of steeling to do.

Mike, thanks for understanding what I was getting at (that Jim Cohen totally missed in his haste to make the inevitable personal comments).

The gigs have dried up, modern country doesn't use steel much. Gee. That leaves a few choices:

1. Do like a lot of guys here seem to , say "the only real steel is country steel", and keep heads stuck in the sand....and watch the market shrivel and die.

2. Continue with the "learn steel and pay your dues the way it's been done for decades" when those learning avenues (at least the live ones) don't exist, making the material irrelevant to players who gig in other styles (again, since country gigs just are not around)

2. Fight the trends and hope things will revert back to 1965.

3. Figure out how to make the steel accessible to players of other styles and open up the market - and be accepting of that change and HELPFUL to players who could care less about country music.

Brad, I don't think that's entirely true<<

Don, If you reread my statement you will see that I was not talking about people who played Steel for a living and I also said "for the most Part". I still contend that many of us older guys that made our living in the trades or the professions and loved the Steel but did not have much time to devote to it but loved the sound and are now retired with pensions and are mortgage free, children free, now find the time to rekindle our passion for our hobby and purchase New Steels. We, for the most part, have no desire to play in smoky clubs or tote a steel around at 2am but we love to be able to have a great Steel to pick on. I love the new Steel I just got in July...it is a Williams Series 600 S10WB..what great tone and it does not break strings or pins because it has a great changer design..yeah, I still have my Mullen D-10

Or JS # 4, in my case I found that a learning a "new instrument", the Tele, ( though I've played guitar for 50 years) gave me the satisfaction I had on the first years of pedal steel. Plus it keeps my nerves and mind active. It'd been a LONG time since I'd put in an honest hour a day on PSG. It helps my PSG chops too just for the time spent blasting music through an amp.

I look at my old newspapers from 20 years ago when we all say it was 'So good', and remembering how really slim the pickings were when you discounted all the cheap work, "house gigs" held by trios and family, and tons of other things that I'd forgotten about.

Mainly that I lived in and just this side of a car during all those "good times".

Those are the seven years that showed up as goose eggs on my SSGLI readout...

This year, maybe by accident, I worked slightly less steadily, and even putting in about 2800 hard hours on construction jobs, made over 5 grand that I had to claim on music. The whole time, I was buying Squiers, Amps, and Brent Mason CDS, and practicing an hour or more a night.

If I'd known earlier I'd be Laid Off permanantly from the company that almost killed me last year, I could be going on a USO tour for three weeks that I passed on.

My "success" is directly porportional to the amount of excitement I get out of playing.

Always has been.

I'll take #4, and go over and plug my PodxtLive, Classic 50 and BlsJr for a couple hours and get ready for the gig I've got the next couple weekends..

I might even go out and look for another "day job"...



EJL

Well, I'd better consider myself lucky and in a rare situation here in Eastern Canada to have a steady steel gig, with a country band, making more than I ever have as a guitarist or published songwriter. And I'm not talking "pocket money"; this as good as any fair-paying day job, albeit not quite as steady.

I don't think the country scene around the world is as dead as some of you say. And there are many steel guitarists paying the mortgage with this instrument. It is not on the endangered list, not by a long shot.

Jim, I agree with some of your points. But if you think there's a small market for country steel, just look at the market for unconventional steel. Now that's small for ya. If it wasn't for country, pedal steel would have died long ago. Like it or not, country and steel are permanent bedfellows. Real country, that is.

Barry,

The Carter Starter web site list 28 dealers in California.

There are six GUITAR CENTER's on that list: Bakersfield, Fresno, Hollywood, Lawndale, Modesto, and Sherman Oaks.

That's not to say that these store all have a Carter Starter on the showroom floor, but they can get them. The GC in Boston does have a Carter Starter on the showroom floor.

Guitar Center - Carter Starter

Carter Starter - California Dealers, page 1

just look at the market for unconventional steel. Now that's small for ya.

Absolutely no doubt Chris.

But it's a market that has potential - times and musical trends change and you can change with them or not...those who don't end up kind of lonely.

I still remember the late 60's/early 70's when 6-string magazines considered jazz the only "real" guitar music (apart from classical, which was a whole different world) and rock was just noise...it took a while, but they changed with the market.

Obviously much of the steel guitar market is regional in nature - but even taking that into consideration, there just aren't as many popular songs using steel as much in ANY market as there were 5-10 years ago.

So if the instrument is used less, and the music played on it becomes older...what happens to the players and the manufacturers? They get older as well, unless there's a shift in instrument usage that moves the steel into modern musical applications - something for which it is well-suited, given its versatility.

But all it takes is a casual glance at this forum to see how firmly pigeonholed steel is. And until that "country stigma" is broken down, it's a dying instrument. Oh, it'll still be played. So is the harpsichord....

...I'm not talking "pocket money"; this as good as any fair-paying day job, albeit not quite as steady.

Enjoy it while it lasts, Chris Many times in my life I've had great playing situations that lasted for a few months... and then fell though. In my opinion, the best security for a full-time musician is a combination of teaching-sales-gigs. That's what works for me.

As far as Country steel guitar... I do Not think the future of steel is in Country. I think the future of steel lies in alternative-Americana-Blues-Folk-Rock, etc. All of my "younger" steel guitar students (under 40) are into those styles and that's what they want to play on steel. My older students are into traditional country steel guitar or top-40 country, in general. For the past couple of years the majority of my steel guitar students have been under 40, some under 30, and they don't care about "country music". Of course, I'm in the 5-college area and there are a lot of young people around here. Also... there is a lot of interest in Lap Steel now. I have a lot of lap steel students. I think non-pedal steel will be around for a long, long time... maybe longer than pedal steel.

I'm a country steel player too, but I love to add steel to songs that don't really feature steel, for example, my friend Katie Cook did a version of the eighties song "Time After Time" and I like to add some good steel to it. I also like to add steel to Bonnie Raitt's song "I Can't Make You Love Me", and I've also done an instrumental version of "Under The Boardwalk" by the Drifters and "Yesterday" by the Beatles at shows.

Brett

Doug, you're right, on all accounts. I've had lots of good-paying gigs fall apart underneath me, so lessons, sales, and showing up at friends' houses at suppertime ,kept me going.
As for the kids, that whole alt-country thing is rife for steel players. I see lots (well, not LOTS) of youngsters wanting to be the next big alt-whatever band. And like him or hate him, Robert Randolph has exposed a TON of kids to the steel guitar. And lap steel is just flat-out FUN to play!
Keep them young'uns interested! The next steel guitar hero is out there somewhere!

Brad Malone wrote:Let me add my thought. A lot of the orders for new Steels are probably from the older guys because they are now more secure...either retired with a pension or near retirement. These guys always loved the Steel but they did not have the time to play because their jobs may have been too demanding. Now that they are mortgage free, children free and have more time for their hobby they rekindle their interest and order the best new steels without any intention of playing in clubs, for the most part...they do it for theirselves because they love the sound. Only the builders would really know the answer as to what age group buys new steels....my bet is that 80% are sold to guys 50 plus.

You would lose that bet.

I also do not think Country Music is dead, I think that a QUALITY Country Band that can rock the House is rare and thats the biggest problem.

Folks show up to dance to a good band and mediocrity show it's ugly face.

I'm not saying I am any better or worse than others, what I am saying is that there is some pretty poor music taking place in some of the EMPTY clubs under the guise of Country Music.

It's the Guitar Center syndrome, buy a guitar and learn 3 chords on the way to the gig.( oh and the words to a few songs )

Many singers in the so called local Country bands spend more time on there hair then they do on vocal technique. Harmony is two people singing at the same time,even if they don't know all the words.

I still think there is ROOM for a good Country band with Steel Guitars and Telecasters a' blazin'...

There seems to be more interest in pedal steel among the french speaking Quebec population lately and I believe it can be traced to one guy in particular. That would be Jean Guy Grenier. It seems that anyone here who can identify a pedal steel guitar knows who Grenier is. He's a multi-instrumentalist who appears on Quebec based t.v. channels often and has toured extensively with the very popular Quebecois singer/guitarist Patrick Normand. Normand does a lot of country flavored music but often crosses over into pop and takes pedal steel along for the ride. Whether or not that's where it got started, I notice pedal steel showing up more and more Quebec pop music the past few years.
In keeping with this new awareness I find I'm often approached by younger six string players who would love to get into pedal steel. So far no one else has. The closest place to buy a new one is 1000 miles away and there are certainly no used ones locally. Not many people are going to send away for an expensive, complicated instrument which they know nothing about. In the past year I've met three local guitarists (all francophone) who talked seriously about buying a pedal steel but so far no one has. If you could rent or buy an inexpensive used one nearby they'd all have one.
In the meantime I enjoy the notice the instrument gets. I sometimes I feel like a total fraud though. I'm a very mediocre player with no knowledge of theory but because of the caché or mystique of the instrument itself I've found myself at the center of attention among far superior musicians.
I'm glad to hear John Fabian say that they're selling to plenty of younger people.

Bill it sounds like you have an untapped market there.
Students and rental income,
just get a couple of steels up at your place.

Doug B., I'm sure what you say is right, however, being able to get a steel as opposed to having one in stock are two different things, I lived in L.A. for fifteen years and during that time visited many GC's in the greater SoCal area. Of course, it's only my personal experience, but never once did I see a steel of any kind at a GC, nor did I see or purchase any accessories for steel either. Go figure .....