Sho Bud Permanent

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 13 Dec 2007 4:47 pm

There are suppliers on the net that will sell you only as much as you need. And there's no need to buy a 4X8 sheet! When I consider the time required to do a paint job, and the difference between a paint job and veneer, I'd go for veneer. Order finish supplies from Reranch and go to it!

Chance Wilson · Post by **Chance Wilson** » 15 Dec 2007 3:28 pm

This is the only Birdseye maple D10 I have seen. It's pretty much a Fingertip without the end plates and the changers.

Neil Lang · Post by **Neil Lang** » 16 Dec 2007 1:38 pm

John,
I have a fingertip exactly like the one you have pictured here. Same binding etc. I played that guitar from 1970 until around 1990 then went to the newer style Buds. I haven't played it for a few years now.
Neil

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 16 Dec 2007 4:47 pm

Whit, that is a beautiful Bud. I have to inject though that your guitar is a Permenant not a Finger Tip. The Finger Tip guitars had a different changer and the pullers were not welded on the cross shafts. The permenant that I have has the same changer as yours but has aluminum end plates and pullers that can be moved.

I grew up at Sho-Bud and those old guitars hold a special place in my heart. One thing that may be interesting to Sho-Bud fans. In 1969 Sho-Bud was building four models of D-10 guitars. Harry Jackson built Perms and Finger Tips at the store on Broadway. David Jackson was heading up the factory (Music City Manufactering) on Dickerson Rd. building the Baldwin Crossover and introduced the Professional that year. I was so fortunate to be around all of that at the ripe old age of 12. I sure wish I would have had a camera then.

Jeff Bradshaw · Post by **Jeff Bradshaw** » 16 Dec 2007 7:37 pm

Whit, your guitar is very beautiful...it is hard to beat some of those old Buds for looks...that's for sure!!! Best regards. ..jeff

Steve Waltz · Post by **Steve Waltz** » 20 Dec 2007 11:02 am

I get the newsletter from Steel guitar Nashville. This week Bobbe was talking about collectable guitars. Sho bud permanents were listed but only until 63'. I wonder what the thought is behind that? I kind of like the ability to change your set up with the full crosshafts on the later custom Permanent guitars. What makes a pre 63 sho bud more collectable?

Last question: what's the radius of the changer finger and the axle of the changer. Just curious how it's different than mine.

Thanks,

Steve

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 20 Dec 2007 11:22 am

Steve Walz wrote:I wonder what the thought is behind that? I kind of like the ability to change your set up with the full crosshafts on the later custom Permanent guitars. What makes a pre 63 sho bud more collectable?

I think what makes a guitar desirable is not how easy it is to change a set up, but what it sounds like when you play the guitar.

I own one now and have owned three Bigsbys, one of which is considered by folks who should know to be one of the best sounding Bigsbys made. But when I first played my 1957 Sho-Bud (the one with green necks and pickups pictured near the bottom of page one of this thread) I knew why players were trading in their Bigsbys for Sho-Buds in the late Fifties.

Steve Waltz · Post by **Steve Waltz** » 20 Dec 2007 11:31 am

What are the differences in the pre 63 sho buds that would make it sound better?

BTW I'm not arguing in any way, just curious.

I had the same thought about the Bigsbys. It does seem that many people that owned bigsbys were trading in for sho buds. That does say something. Unless the sound was just newer or the tuning issues with the metal necks were unwanted. New buyers didn't have to wait for ever with sho buds so I see that as a big plus.

steve

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 20 Dec 2007 11:53 am

I am not knocking the Bigsby sound -- from my limitd experience, it is on of a kind, and fantastic for Swing and C6 and when played by players better than I. It is just not the E9 sound I prefer. I happen to prefer a cutting, very bright, edgy, piercing tone, and that to me is a Wraparound Emmons with 14.5 K pickups. There are a couple of other features I have discovered about some of my oldest Emmons guitars besides the unusual changer fingers that I believe lend to the unique tone -- features that you won't find on any but the earliest Push Pulls.
My old Sho-Bud has split coils tapped at 8.5K and 15K with pretty conventional pickup construction and coil shape for nine strings (converted in 1959 from eight strings). It has a solid bridge, and not a lot of mechanical stuff bolted to the body. I think that is a key right there. Old Permanents don't tend to be loaded up, have lighter wound pickups, and no roller nuts, and have bolt-on changers.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 20 Dec 2007 5:22 pm

Well here is my fingertip.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 20 Dec 2007 5:51 pm

Hey Craig, What a beutiful fingertip you have there!! Did yours come stock with 9 floor pedals, like mine did? I guess it was an option back then, huh?? Someone for some reason removed the card cluster logo on the front of my '67 fingertip, but Coop made me a new one to put back on the front. Thanx John!! Here's a few pics after a little "elbo grease" and "TLC". Enjoy.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 20 Dec 2007 5:59 pm

James your changer is different from mine.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 20 Dec 2007 6:02 pm

James! A stunner! I find the differences between yours and mine very interesting. If it's warm where you're at, I'm comin' for a visit, cuz it's most unpleasant in Cleveland!

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 20 Dec 2007 6:27 pm

Craig, There were always new ideas that were introduced. And that's what makes the cool old 'buds so facinating.

John, Your right, It's warmer here today---60 degrees. But we will be back to winter after this "station break". Thanx for the kind words on my fingertip! Mine looks kinda plain next to yours and Craig's and the others shown in this thread!

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 20 Dec 2007 6:38 pm

It would be kind of neat to know which guitar is newer. I have room for a ninth pedal, James, but it didn't have one I don't think. There is a cross rod there but the second string lower lever is hooked to it. Years ago I had a maverick with the barrel nut ends on the endplates like this has. Yours has knurled knobs. I wonder the age of mine. Ricky Davis and I once took a guess at it being a 68. Lloyd told me his fingertip was a 68 and didn't have the lip on the pickup housing over the screws.

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 20 Dec 2007 7:37 pm

Craig, what a beauty. I wish I had mine back. Or I'll take yours. Ok guys I am looking to purchase a Perm or Finger Tip. So if anyone is interested or knows where I can find one let me know.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 20 Dec 2007 7:43 pm

Thanks Johnny. I wish I could bear to part with it. I did that with a ProII once and wished I had it back two weeks after it was gone. The mechanics underneath are kind of funky but they work. When Jeff Surrat gets my RNL done I will feel better about the way it plays. I do like the tone. Like I told you Harry Jackson rewound the pickups for me. He wound them the same way he did when the guitar was built. Your permanent on My Space is pretty cool too.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 20 Dec 2007 7:49 pm

All you guys, I'm really enjoying all the new postings about old guitars. I'm a nut about restoring these old axes, and it's been a long time since I've seen this much interest shown on the Forum. I'm lovin' it!

Jay Yuskaitis · Post by **Jay Yuskaitis** » 21 Dec 2007 5:36 am

I agree with John about the early Sho Bud steels. I have more or less stuck with the 8 string permanents. Will try to post some pictures in the near future.
Jay Y.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 21 Dec 2007 5:52 am

Ok, you eagle-eyes, did you happen to notice the weird "double row" shobud pickups in my pictures?? At the time of those pics, I was trying them out, but put my original fingertip pups back in by the time of my last photo. Anyone have a clue about them?? I inherited them in an old Professional a couple years ago.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 21 Dec 2007 5:56 am

I figured they were 'Seymour Duncan Death Metal Head Crusher' pickups, cuz I know you're a "Head Banger!"

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 21 Dec 2007 6:02 am

John Billings wrote:I figured they were 'Seymour Duncan Death Metal Head Crusher' pickups, cuz I know you're a "Head Banger!"

Uhh--no, they are not Seymore duncan--blah blah blah
Uhh--yes, I am a head banger, but not like you think----------------

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 21 Dec 2007 6:04 am

James, are those the original fingerboards? Didn't some late model Shobud have pickups that looked like those?

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 21 Dec 2007 6:10 am

John, I have only seen THIS pair of pickups, that's why I wonder if anyone else has an idea whats up with them.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 21 Dec 2007 6:16 am

I've seen them on another Shobud, and recall being surprised. Can't remember where though. They were on a much later model guitar. I'll go get some coffee, maybe that will wake up my brain.