The Steel Guitar Forum

Calvin Walley wrote:

... we know a "bum" when we see one

I'm sure you think you do, but appearances can be very deceiving.

...and yes many bums can play an instrument...but that does not make them any less a bum...now does it??

Well, I guess it depends on how you define "bum". To me, a bum is somebody who mooches off the rest of the world without trying to contribute. The fact that many bums are disheveled-looking does set that stereotype up, but it's just a stereotype.

Sorry - I sort of knew my post would bring this kind of thing out, but I think it's best to get it out on the table and dispense with it. Many brilliant contributors to the world culture are and have been disheveled-looking and generally eccentric. The examples are so numerous that it's pointless to start to list them. These people don't care what you think about them, nor should they. If you can't see past the wardrobe and appearance to get to the essence, it's your loss, IMO.

Dressing for a gig is a mentally subjective thing for me. I dress to make ME feel good at a gig....

Yeah, I think I do that a lot too. I think a lot of people do what makes THEM feel comfortable with themselves, which really goes contrary to Charlie's "pride in themselves" slam.

I have to admit that the Pedal Steel Guitar really seems to have the market cornered when it comes to attracting the contrarian geezer market.

Yeah, there's an element of that, which I think is OK. But I'm not exactly sure we should be SO all-fired sure of ourselves and proud of that somewhat dubious distinction.

You know - if we could just state our differences without getting personally insulting about how others do things, these kinds of threads would go a lot better. IMHO.

When did they start having live music at Hippie Hollow?

Good one Mike! But it wasn't there. Since this is a family oriented forum, I'll just say, do a google search on Live Oak Resort, Washington TX...

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Vince Gill was asked once about the integration of Black and White musicians. He said it was never a problem for musicians, because musicians see with their ears. I wonder if he is more interested in how one looks or plays?

You know - if we could just state our differences without getting personally insulting about how others do things, these kinds of threads would go a lot better. IMHO.

... ah, but then it would no fun "stirring the pot".



Some folks get insulted simply because you express an opinion different than theirs. One thing that this forum is not known for is "open mindedness". Some here take it as a personal insult if one suggests that music worthy of being played was actually written after the 50's or 60's. Want some fun? Mention that Jerry Garcia was a defining force in your pedal steel awakening. Praise Robert Randolph. Note how good CMT is these days. Suggest that modern pedal steel design is an improvement over old PP or Shobuds. Suggest that smoking should be banned at all pedal steel functions...


that's enough for now... I need to go find my leisure suit for this weeks gigs.

i disagree...i think the forum is, overall, very openminded. i've said whatever i felt since i've been a member, and i'm not your average sheep. some might not be as comfortable with that as others but i'll be however i feel, not how someone else feels. and i think performers should dress with some respect for the people paying ridiculous prices to see a show!

Larry Strawn wrote: I'm not hung up on matching uniforms for bands, however, for my self when I step on the bandstand I want to look nice. I may be wearing blue jeans, but unlike my work jeans these won't have sewn patches or rips or holes, and will be startched and ironed. these along with a nice shirt, [for me the more flashy the better!] And always a hat, I feel good about myself and I'm ready to play music!

I gotta say, I LOVE the American flag shirt you're wearing in your picture.

we know a "bum" when we see one

and yes many bums can play an instrument...but that does not make them any less a bum...now does it??

Who's this "we" you're talking about, Calvin? Your implication is that anyone not "dressed up" to play a "show" (and try to define that in context - is "concert" more correct? Is playing in a dark corner of a bar a "show"?) is a "bum" - and you are calling me and several other (quite a few, apparently) muscians on this forum "bums".

There's another definition for "bum" that describes perfectly where I think those comments should be inserted. For a guy who's never played a gig in his life to have these opinions is a laugh.

Jim

Calvin said
we know a "bum" when we see one

Calvin, allow me to let you in on a little reality.

I was selling computers in the mid 80's at a large Apple store in So Cal. A guy would come in every so often, dressed in a t shirt, ratty jeans, tennis shoes and we would talk shop for some time. I treated him like everyone else.....politely and respectfully. Me, I was in a shirt and tie. The Apple Lisa had just come out (that is a whole other story) and he was fascinated by them. After a few weeks of talking with him he came in and placed an order for 100 of them.

They were 12,000 a piece.

He was the principal partner in the largest lawfirm in the county.

If I had your attitude, I would not have made a 100K commission on that sale.

I am sorry to hear that you pre judge people based upon what they wear. I would imagine that you pre judge people based on other criteria as well (I'll leave you to figure out what I am saying here)

SS

Eh? Why is this hard? Dress for the audience and what you find comfortable and fun. FBB and Marty Stuart pull off the over-the-top bit because they enjoy(ed) it and the audience got off on it. Jerry Garcia in a Nudie suit would have been cool, once, but not creditable more than once. He played most gigs in T-shirt and nobody ever accused him of being a non-pro musician.

I like the "dress a little better than the audience" idea, and in practice it's what I've usually done. I've never played in a band where looking similar was part of the concept, but if we were doing Buck Owens covers we might do it. I've done the jazz combo dress-in-tuxes look because it was fun (and our female singer in a tux was pretty cool ). Country gigs -- often jeans, boots, and your favorite garish cowboy shirt (no hats). Acoustic gigs are often the Neal-Young-jeans-and-a-Pendleton look.

If I ever played death metal.... I dunno, shoot myself?

Hey, have fun with it.

-eric

Calvin once again put his foot in his mouth when he said...

i think some of you are forgetting that people come to SEE a show and not just to listen to music
i don't give a rats a-- how great a musican you think you are, if as some one said, you look like you just craweled out of a dumpster. you are disrespecting your audence
its called a show for a reason

Calvin, welcome to the new millenium....they are often referred to as concerts, not shows. If you want to see a show, go to the circus. I go to hear the music, and yes see the band playing and the singer singing...and being one of those 50 somethings myself who was out helping change the world in the 60's, I could care less what they are wearing. I suppose you would sacrifice good music as long as they are all dressed to your chauvinistic standard.

SS

I'll just say, do a google search on Live Oak Resort, Washington TX...

Uh Glenn... before I do that, there aren't any pictures of you, Kevin and the boys are there???? I gotta draw the line somewhere.

Calvin,maybe they got dressed in the dark and just didn't notice.

One time years ago I was going to a sales call but had gotten dressed in the dark that morning. I had driven almost 45 minutes when I looked down and had on one black and one blue loafer so you never know.

It could happen.

i think having so many loafers that you don't even know which color you put on might require a little call to the old therapist!

Uh Glenn... before I do that, there aren't any pictures of you, Kevin and the boys are there???? I gotta draw the line somewhere.

Hey Bill, no need to worry. I had the "morality police" remove any suspect pics before you accidently burn your eyes out. (Seriously, if nudity offends any forum members, don't look at the pictures at the resort website. There is skin showing.)

I enjoyed your MySpace site. That's some fine steel pickin'! One of these days we'll have to get together for lunch. Next time you see Lealean, say howdy for me.

Keep on pickin', amigo!
Glenn

Guess I'm just an old anthropoid living in the past,Can't see into the future,the present SUCKS,so I chose to live in the past,I refuse to conform[to be similar or identical]to what I see around me,no matter how HIP it's supposed to be,don't you know.

These guys were probably frickin' awesome...



A wise man once said that it's better to keep quiet and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Good advice for all of us at times, I expect.

I was in a surf band once that wore gasmasks and used fogmachines with old film projecting through the smoke. crowd loved it. Next show it was clown gettups and sombreros. Had a go-go dancer serving chips and salsa the whole time. Crowd loved it and we sold a lot of cd's. Really works with surf music. Wouldnt do it with the bands I play with now. I dress ACCORDINGLY. Whatever connects to the audience is part of showmanship. I think for some of us dressing up would be inappropriate for the bands we play with. For others not dressing up is bad. Dont play in overalls with chamber music. Dont wear a tux to a bluegrass banjo competition. Dont wear a monkey costume to a funeral... It just wont work. Theatrics are part of live shows in my opinion.
Stage = theater. I think Calvin's point is to be aware that people are watching you, and judging you, when you play partially on the image. whether or not its right or wrong they are going to. Whether or not WE judge each other is irrelevant. The crowd WILL.I think the music should speak for itself, but playing to the MTV generation means we have to think about the visual as well.Give the crowd their moneys worth and they will come back.

One funny thing to think about,,the last on air radio show I did, I was gettting ready and I decide to slum it since no one would see me,,They posted photos on the KEXP web-page and I was pretty embarrassed.
MY GOD<<I LOOK LIKE A BUM!!

I don't judge musicians based on appearance as long as they're not 10 or more pounds overweight. Fatties on the stage are just inexcusable.

Some of the comments on this thread brought to mind the memorable words of Marty Robbins:

The moral of this story - never judge by what they wear
Underneath some ragged clothes could be a millionaire
Ev'rybody, listen - don't be fooled by this galoot
The sure enough bronc-buster in a Continental Suit.

Myself I tend to be kind of dressy these days - generally a pinstripe or plain black jacket with maybe a black turtleneck and either black slacks or, if the gig's a little more casual, embarrassingly expensive black jeans. And good-looking black shoes. But I've been doing theatre gigs and things that seem to call for a little dressing up - on an outdoor show this summer on a really hot day I went for a silk hawaian shirt. I never could stand the shirts-all-the-same schtick, though I put in my time doing it - found an old suitcase full of the worst cowboy shirts imaginable (inherited from a predecessor steel player in a Toronto band I once joined) while cleaning out the basement awhile back, and tossed them in the dumpster with no regrets.

I don't recall the Buckeroos or the Texas Troubadors looking or playing like amateurs. Jody.

You got that right Jody,Two more of the great acts that had self respect and PRIDE in not only their music but their appearance.don't you know.

I don't recall the Buckeroos or the Texas Troubadors looking or playing like amateurs. Jody.

They didn't play like amateurs, They dressed for what worked for them at the time, and for the audience they were catering to.

Pictures of them now look laughably dated.

Buy a calendar - you'll find they don't have 1-9-5 or 6 as the first three numbers in the year. The Helms Bead truck isn't driving down your street any longer. No more Fuller Brush man. And note most ladies in the audience aren't wearing beehive hairdos, nor do they wear aprons and bake cookies every afternoon. Golly - TV's even are in COLOR nowadays!

Again - if you suggest that the only way to have self- respect and pride in oneself is to dress like the Buckeroos or Texas Troubadours, I have to disagree.

Please understand - I love the Buckeroos and Texas Troubadours. I personally don't find it dated or corny, and I think it's great to dress up like that if that's what you want to do. I keep a couple of western suits and a bunch of western shirts just for that purpose. Truthfully, some people find it a bit corny and dated, and wonder why I don't always just bring out the ripped jeans and t-shirts - but I don't worry about it a bit. When I do it - I do it because I want to and I think it fits.

But I just don't get why anybody thinks that dressing differently - either for their own reasons or for a different audience that prefers a different approach - is any less valid. To say - "This is what I like" - that is totally reasonable. If you state your preference without denigrating other approaches, I think most here will respect that. But to routinely diss other musicians as being amateurish or poor simply because they don't dress as you prefer - I don't get it and never will.