The Steel Guitar Forum

I own Tommy White's '76 Black 8 & 6 P/P that he said was the best sounding guitar he's ever had except the restored Sho-Bud that Teresa bought for him. The shame of it all is, I never play it. I bought it for a gig that I decided to let go by and my time is spent on my Mullen D-11 9 & 8. I just like that extra string.

Bobbe Seymour - what do you know about steel guitars? You play these old cranky things that are about 40 years old and that have seen better days. You would be much better off playing a nice new shiny modern all pull guitar with quadruple raise and triple lower changers, instead of poking around underneath these old push pulls that are difficult to maintain and keep in tune.

Hey Pat,
I hope you don't mind. I borrowed your head shot and mixed with one of my pics.

...heh heh heh, nice pic, Jay...actually, it just looks like any bar in Sussex County back in the early 70's...or Port Jervis today..

David
the 12 string uni is a blond
the s10 is a red/wine/purple refinished by jerry newbury i believe. they sure are pretty next to my 76 ldg......funny thing is....most "normal" cavemen would use them for firewood......i like to play them.

Pat,

Ummmm, over here at Edison, Middlesex County, we just came out of the "Dark Ages" a few weeks ago. We're now in the "Renaissance" period.

Still have a few dissidents left here & there though at a local bar....

I'll go against the grain, I have an "83" Emmons D10, SKH, All Pull, set-up by Bobbe Seymour Hisself....Sound is absolutly pure joy!!

Why? It's the only one I got!! TX

Rgds,

Ron

Ken Byng! Funny post! Actually the P-P Emmons guitars are my newest ones! My Bigsbys are a lot older!
However, there is absolutly no question which guitars sound, respond, and feel the best. This is why after owning thousands of guitars, I still play these silly P-P guitars. Feel and tone, gotta' have it. But this is just me, not so for everyone. You guys play what you like to play, and I'll sell it to you! Ha!
I seriously don't think this is the guitar for everyone, and this forum proves it. We don't all even start to drive the same brand cars either! (And I DON"T like P-P cars at all!)

Bobbe

I need to say one more thing about the Emmons P-P guitars that has never been said, on this forum anyway.

That is: It's not just the tone of these guitars, it's something in the feedback into your hands and arms, the "psycological" aura that comes from the total being of what these guitars do and are, they just have a quality that goes beyond tone and a player needs to "be involved" with one for a while to know what I'm talking about. Rest assured my friends, the magic IS there.

It took me a good five years in the begining of this companys reign for me to start feeling this magic. But then, it also takes a player with enough experience to recognise this quality in a guitar. It took me a while!

Different qualities affect different players differently according to how long they have been playing. We all change.

And on another note:

Worry kills more steel players than work does. Why? Because there are more steel players worrying than there are working !!!!!!!!!

I would like to think mine but I have to say the best sounding Emmons guitar is Rosie, played by Dickey Overbey.

I sure can't argue with Dave here.He nailed it for me also!!! Ron

Bobbe, totally I agree with your last post...the "sound" itself, is not all it's about. It psychological as well as a physical "feel" of the guitar. The way it resonates, etc. Plus, for me personally, the Emmons knee lever spacing is always perfect for my body (ergonomically speaking); and most I've played (I've owned 7) are very consistent in the KL spacing straight from the factory.

JC

Different qualities affect different players differently according to how long they have been playing. We all change.

Dead right Bobbe - it's all in the hands . Seriously, I know what you mean. The more experienced you become, the more you appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of your guitar. I am a lover of the archetypal ShoBud tone and I'm very comfortable with what comes out of my amp.

I tried Emmons p/p's earlier in my career and found that they had a 'livelier' quality than my SB with a natural sparkle and bite to the note. I found this a bit disconcerting, and decided that they weren't for me. I recently played a push-pull again after a 30 year break, and perhaps because my playing technique has changed over the years I was very pleasantly surprised at just how good it sounded to me compared to the first time I tried one. Maybe my ears now appreciate the subtle differences that these guitars possess. (More worryingly, maybe as I head rapidly towards old age I just can't hear the sparkle that I could hear in my 20's).

Ken, you have reminded me of when I first tried switching to Emmons guitars in the "60s, I had been living with Sho-Bud guitars for a few years and the Emmons was very strange to me at first, but after 6 months, I was deeply loving the Emmons sound. My appreciation also lingered for the rich full Sho-Bud sound, and does today. However, my preference is Emmons P-P. Time means a lot in this business, amazing how we learn and WHAT we learn.

Bobbe

Bobbe all I heard was that the pp emmons broke 3rd and 5th strings like crazy.All that said and done the old black 67 you set up for me not only sounds better than my other guitars,but has yet to break a string,after 5 months hard playing.Thanks for fixing her up. Gordon Sharp Kingston Tenn.

Gordon
I can say from a string breaking perspective my P/P is better than my previous Sho-Bud. I've been using a 74 Pushpull as my main guitar for the last year plus. I practice about an hour a day, plus rehearsals 2 times a week for 3-4 hours with a band and about 50 gigs. I've broken one 3rd string. Pretty good I'd say.
I replaced the rest because they were getting dull sounding recently.

Speaking of Great Tone, I just got this one from Bobbe. Thanks Bobbe



Tone "to Die for" as we say here in California. Its a 72 Bolt on w/ wood necks with BL pickups. I did a side by side test of this guitar with my 74 Alumimum neck P/P also with BL pickups
Also setup by Bobbe before going to Joe Long then to me.


I ran both through a BF Twin with JBLS and both sound really good but the Wood neck 72 stood out, It has better sustain and a richer overall sound, a little more high mids which make the high strings stand out with more definition against the low strings. If anything I would have expected the Alum neck guitar to have better sustain and more highs but it was the reverse. Not sure what other factors there are, but both had new strings and the same pickups and amp settings, on the same day with the same guy missing notes. I'd never really taken time to do a real side by side on 2 similar guitars before. It was a fun test. The only problem is now I'm trying to think of things I could do to make the 74 sound better

Thanks
Bill
72 D10 P/P
74 D10 P/P
68 ZB Custom

Bill M - you raise a good point. I wonder if Bobbe has any preference concerning wood or metal necks on the push pulls.

Well I talked to Bobbe about the 74 Wood P/P yesterday and he claimed it was one of the best he had heard. Of course we were all probably some what biased. I didn't ask the question the alumium vs wood neck, but would say that at least based on these 2 guitars the aluminum 72 is a mellower sound than the Wood guitar. The wood has more bite but not shrill. I recorded with the wood and it really stands out in the mix. Interesting how some guitars have a natural tendency to find fequency holes in a band mix while others get buried. I could run the track much lower overall and still hear the wood Emmons vs the metal on the same mix A/Bing the 2 steels with same gain and compression, same mic, same pre, and amp setup etc.

It could of course be many many other things besides the wood vs aluminum guitar but these are at least two data points, One Geek's experience.

Thanks
Bill
72 Wood P/P
74 P/P
68 ZB Custom

67-68 Cut Tail....MMMMM Push-Pull-lectable..

john widgren wrote:67-68 Cut Tail....MMMMM Push-Pull-lectable..

Those Emmons Originals...still the Stradivarius of Steel Guitars!

It's interesting reading all the post about the pp Emmons guitars. I sold my last pp guitar back in the 80s and have always used those guitars as the bar for tone.. I think Bruce has gotten closer than anyone on matching it with his hybrid ZUM. In some ways my Mullen G2 reminds me of my pp guitars even though they are a more modern sounding guitar... To me it is a compromise which ever way you go... I remember many a night laying under my pp during breaks readjusting parts that had slipped during the last set. I don't miss that but I still miss that sound and how it felt paying those great instruments.. In those days I practiced 4 hours a day, played 5 nights a week and had band rehearsal 4 days a week. The pp is still the Stradivarius of Steel Guitars...

ive been blessed to have had many emmons guitars
my 2 favs were a SKH legrand which is my fav legrand and back in 1985-86 I came upon a green Laq pp d-10 man that guitar sounded so dang good
one day a smart a.....s sound guy came in and said where you get that steel out of a cabbage patch?
I didnt like that joke and still dont
wish I had that steel back....
wish I had a pic too!!
Mike

The tension on the neck screws is a big issue---at least it was on my '68----

I posted earlier my LeGrande III plays good but did not sound like a push pull model. I had the 705 pickups installed last year and what a difference that made in sound. That being said, it still does not sound like a push pull steel.

My Universal 12 String

Bobbe really said it all when he said "It's not just the tone of these guitars, it's something in the feedback into your hands and arms, the "psycological" aura that comes from the total being of what these guitars do and are, they just have a quality that goes beyond tone and a player needs to "be involved" with one for a while to know what I'm talking about."

I've not yet owned an Emmons P/P but I bought 3 guitars in my first year. All were fine instruments that stayed in tune well and played well. THEN, I bought a 1977 Clark D-10 that was "just different". I can't explain it and I hate to say it playes itself but I can find notes, tunes and tones on it that don't seem to exist on my other guitars.

The grips are easier to get, the wonderful tone makes up for my lack of finesse and my confidence is greatly enhanced. Greater confidence leads to greater risk taking which results in a greater contribution to the overall sound of the band.

The mecanics of the Clark are different than any modern guitar and it too requires some skillfull tweaking, but once you've got it there... Well, you get the idea.

Someday, I will vist Bobbe and pick up one of his P/P's and perhaps I will find my next great love.