Page 11 of 20
Posted: 3 Dec 2018 4:42 am
by Russ Tkac
Just Gene's 800. I think Gene pretended he was Sneaky too.
Posted: 6 Dec 2018 7:50 am
by Ross Shafer
Just put another U12 on the assembly bench. This one is for demo purposes...all y'all are invited to stop by the Rockin' Bar L Ranch for a test drive if/when you're in the SF bay area.
Also, I'm working on the details to bring this beauty (and some others) to the Dallas shindig in March. Hope to see you there!
Happy Hot Dang Holidays!!
Great...
Posted: 6 Dec 2018 3:42 pm
by Andy DePaule
Great, we just booked our room for that Dallas show.
Look forward to see you and the steels there.
Guess I better have my Sierra hat to be in uniform?
Best wishes,
Andy
Posted: 7 Dec 2018 7:30 am
by Ross Shafer
No uniforms required Andy
Posted: 7 Dec 2018 10:16 am
by Barry Blackwood
A little nitpicking here. It's such a beautiful guitar, but why the four exposed screws at the corners of the top? It seems to defy the clean aesthetic of the rest of the instrument.
Tone is the reason
Posted: 7 Dec 2018 4:11 pm
by Andy DePaule
Barry Blackwood wrote:A little nitpicking here. It's such a beautiful guitar, but why the four exposed screws at the corners of the top? It seems to defy the clean aesthetic of the rest of the instrument.
Not sure I should answer for Ross who knows about a thousand times more about his steels than I know, but here goes;
Tone is the reason. The "Sound board" (Top Deck in other steels) is free floating on just those 4 screws leaving it free to vibrate with the music and add to the tone. To that end even the fretboard (A solid screwed down neck on most all other steels) is free floating and only touches the soundboard in a few small spaces allowing the top to vibrate more free and add to the tone.
The idea actually goes all the way back to some very early steel guitars built by P.A. Bigsby from 1947 to about 1960. Worked well for Bigsby and also works well for Ross and the new Sierras too.
Ross was a great Luthier for many years before getting involved in building steels. He brought that wonderful knowledge of acoustics in instruments with him to the building of pedal steel guitars.
Hope that is a good answer, but sure Ross could explain it far better.
Nothing on the instrument is just a quick solution. It's all thought out with care and knowledge as well as a lot of experimenting along the way.
Posted: 7 Dec 2018 6:01 pm
by Len Amaral
There is a .100 thousandths gap to suspend the neck from the frame. I would think these Allen bolts are related to that.
That's right
Posted: 7 Dec 2018 6:31 pm
by Andy DePaule
Len Amaral wrote:There is a .100 thousandths gap to suspend the neck from the frame. I would think these Allen bolts are related to that.
That's right Len... As you know it's for the same reason to free up the soundboard.
Almost all other PSG's have the top deck glued to the front and back apron restricting the freedom. Ross avoided this.
I thought to mention that, but was getting too long winded already. Glad you put that in.
Congratulations on your beautiful new Sierra.
Yes I'm a little green but really should get some of my too many steels sold before buying another.
I sure see one of these in my future somewhere in the not too distant time ahead.
Posted: 7 Dec 2018 9:17 pm
by b0b
Yes, the reason for the 4 bolts is
tone. Just yesterday I had a chance to hear a well-mixed, live recording of my steel with a country dance band in a promo video. My playing was average
but the tone of the guitar was incredible. Just goes to show, it's not "all in the hands". I've never sounded so good, and my hands haven't changed.
Aesthetics
Posted: 8 Dec 2018 5:47 am
by Charles Kurck
Posted: 8 Dec 2018 6:12 am
by Charlie McDonald
One thing I like is its honesty in construction, like architecture that expresses its function.
No reason the fastener wouldn't show, part of a design that works in producing tone.
Posted: 8 Dec 2018 6:23 am
by Ross Shafer
Good question Barry, This is something I wrestled with. Given my druthers originally, I'd have preferred the cleaner hidden fastener approach. That said, I'm a HUGE advocate of "form follows function" and the mechano aesthetic of those 4 mounting bolts appeals to me and looks "right" given their functionality.
The 4 bolts are all that holds the deck to the guitar which helps facilitate the "floating" concept of the top that others have mentioned above. Yes, I could have been more clever and come up with a way to bolt the top on from underneath, but that would have made at least one of the bolts very difficult to access without some major dis-assembly. I want these bolts easily accessible so the owner can check them easily and tighten them up if needed.
I've worked on a number of different steels at this point and am no longer surprised at how common loose fasteners are...especially those going into or through wood. I encourage all steel owners to toss their rig up on a bench and do a "tour de tighten" from time to time. Do not mistake this for encouraging super tight fasteners everywhere.
I hope this answers your question Barry.
Posted: 8 Dec 2018 8:15 am
by Ross Shafer
oops, forgot to mention.....Andy is correct that I built some armpit guitars before delving into pedal steel construction...but "a great luthier for many years" while flattering isn't quite the case. Thanks Andy, but I'm truly not worthy.
I was supremely lucky to apprentice with Taku Sakashta back in 2000 or so, under his tutelage I built 4 F5 mandos (first real woodworking project ever...talk about the deep end!) and a couple 335 ish arch tops. I've subsequently built one flattop acoustic. I'm a mere babe in the armpit guitar construction world.
I'm impressed
Posted: 8 Dec 2018 4:04 pm
by Andy DePaule
I'm impressed, Working and learning with Taku Sakashta.
Seems to me like a day with him would equal about a year with most other luthiers.
I only met him and saw his work in person once at one of the Healdsburg shows in the 90's.
Was an amazing luthier and no doubt one of the best there ever was.
Very sad what happened to him.
Armpit Guitars? Now there is something I never heard before!...
F5 mandolins are just about the most difficult instrument there is to build without pedals and knee levers.
Posted: 14 Dec 2018 7:57 am
by Ross Shafer
a blast from the past....from bikes to steel guitars? They've both got pedals!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHUi2cO2kik
Posted: 10 Jan 2019 7:35 am
by Ross Shafer
For you SF Bay Area guitar nuts...I'll be showing some new Sierra Steels at this weekend's Vintage Guitar Show in San Rafael. Come by say hi and take one for a spin!
Posted: 10 Jan 2019 8:05 am
by Jeremy Threlfall
I wonder if there would be an optimum or 'standard' torque for the four screws holding the top down, that you could measure as a starting point for those 'tour de tightens' (?)
As I posted in the Emmons Tone 13 thread (with a picture), my 70s Anapeg has a top that apparently slides into the channel which makes up the side of the frame. I can see only one fastener locating it (there's probably more too it than that) Provision also for another that Noel didn't use on purpose when he rebuilt it a few years ago (if it was ever used). Guitar rings like a bell - harmonics are easy and clean
Posted: 10 Jan 2019 8:11 am
by Charlie McDonald
Now that's a pig. A very enjoyable video, and of course a beautiful guitar.
Posted: 10 Jan 2019 8:19 am
by Ross Shafer
No torque figures for you I'm afraid. With all the different fastener sizes, types and applications on top of the differences in guitar designs, coming up with a "standard" torque would be difficult at best and more likely impossible.
Optimizing a guitars tone through fastener torque would be a trial and error effort on any steel...especially those (most) using wood as part of the load bearing/tone transmitting structure, as every piece of wood is different.
My tour de tighten exercise is more about maintenance and finding fasteners that have worked loose (pretty common with wood fasteners). I have corrected tuning problems on a few guitars by simply making sure all the main structural fasteners were adequately tightened.
Posted: 10 Jan 2019 8:26 am
by Jeremy Threlfall
great video, thanks
there are some funny things in there
Posted: 10 Jan 2019 8:37 am
by Jeremy Threlfall
Ross Shafer wrote:.. coming up with a "standard" torque would be difficult at best ... as every piece of wood is different.
I reckoned that would be the case. I don't have the facility (or the inclination) to do that on my guitar, but wondered whether you would if you could. I suppose you might tune it up sort of like a snare drum.
and theres the sound post, which might make the above less critical?
Posted: 10 Jan 2019 8:52 am
by Ross Shafer
Your comparison to tuning a snare drum is pretty right on....
The tone post concept is yet another adjustment in the mix....I feel adequate tightness on the main structural fasteners is necessary regardless.
This kind of thing can be a rabbit hole of monstrous proportions! I applaud those with the ear and patience to dive in deep.
Re: Aesthetics
Posted: 10 Jan 2019 9:51 am
by Ian Rae
Charles Kurck wrote:Some might find this an easy aesthetic fix.
That's the prettiest thing I've seen. I wonder if they're available over here.
The Wright Brothers also started with building bikes.
Posted: 10 Jan 2019 4:57 pm
by Andy DePaule
Jeremy Threlfall wrote:
The Wright Brothers also started with building bikes and I just flew home across the Pacific last night... That was a fun video. Don't clean up that wall of bad jokes, you gotta keep humor and forget the PC stuff.
I had a great Bianchi racing bike in 1981 with the sew up tires, bought on Van Ness avenue. It was a thousand bucks which was a lot to pay in those days for a bike. Was also impossible to ride it slow... Just made you want to go as fast as possible.
Also had an older English Raleigh 10 speed that I decided to convert to a cruiser because the Bianchi was "Too Fast" for just riding round Golden gate Park watching the ladies.
I converted my old 10 speed into a "Mountain Bike" before I'd heard of mountain bikes.
Spread out the front fork and the rear where the tire went so I could put on heavy knobby tires. Put motor bike handles on for the brakes and a saddle that was easy on the bottom.
I didn't know it was a mountain bike back then (And really it was not) because I used the Bianchi for racing to the top of Twin Peaks once a week and then back down again.... Too old and fat for all that now!
Posted: 11 Jan 2019 7:42 am
by Ross Shafer
Alrighty then....its official. Sierra will be attending and showing at the upcoming Dallas soiree. Please come by the booth say hello and check out these new rigs!
