The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **3 Jun 2003 8:59 am**

Rick and Andy, as I've said before, "Finger Pattern Memory" is what this all turns into for me with a little thought thrown in. One of the things that got on my nerves about playing Bebop, was the guys who were choice and correct, but they didn't have a lot of Garlic to their playing. Little things add Garlic like, sliding up or down into target notes and changing your phrasing around. I like to steal things from Motown's great bass player "James Jamerson", the way he breaks up a measure has a lot of groove you can use in your solos.

Orville, following the melody of a song is how early jazz players would improvise in the beginning era of jazz.[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 04 June 2003 at 07:19 AM.]

Posted: **3 Jun 2003 10:08 am**

that's exactly what i like, Jesse, is what you call the "garlic". taking a limited number of note motif and using phrasing and timing to play with the ways it can feel over the time is much more interesting to me than clouds of "gnat notes" (zappa's term) over the changes. much more like a singer would sing a tune rather than a manipulation of a musical appliance. just a matter of taste but i definately go for groove and phrasing over the "gnatnote" approach.

Posted: **3 Jun 2003 11:30 am**

On the PSG for the C7 that Gm is convienently 2 frets back, add P5 and your in that exact place described.

I have played and recorded Rachmaninoffs 3rd Piano Concerto with William Wolfram on P piano.. yes huge hands and extra long arms.

Orville the Finger Pattern Memory is the way to have those garlic notes close by without thinking about them when doing variations on the melody.
I am pattern oriented, buyt try mightily to be fluid and not locked in to any one pattern, unless, on bass for example, it is absolutley the only correct part.

And I been groovin off "Mr. James" for decades on bass.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 June 2003 at 12:36 PM.]

Posted: **3 Jun 2003 12:10 pm**

I have an excellent instructional video by Emily Remler, the late jazz guitarist noted for her swinging, melodic style largely free of cliches. She worked out a way to play jazz with just two scales - major for major chords, jazz minor for minor & dominant chords.

As for reach, Tal Farlow was noted for his enormous hands that could reach "impossible" chord forms. To this natural capability he added a tremendous ear for reharmonization and recorded two handed techniques 30 years before they occured to Eddie Van Halen.

but I digress ... I agree with Orville and Jesse about "spice" and simplicity. After years of listening to bebop, it just started to leave me cold - all that running the changes. You contrast that to Louie Armstrong or Sydney Bechet's playing around the melody - so much personality and expression! Still, there are times when I'm playing lap steel that I hear Joe Pass in my head playing "gnat" notes but all that comes out my steel is Kenny G! (Sigh).

The templates that got this thread-a-polooza off the ground offer a fundamental map for taking things from the simple to as complex as one's ear and chops can handle. All the other approaches are valid too. In the end though, we're just making sounds and listeners couldn't care less how we arrived the sounds we make. All they care about is: "Do I like the sounds I'm hearing or not".[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 03 June 2003 at 01:12 PM.][This message was edited by Andy Volk on 03 June 2003 at 01:13 PM.]

Posted: **3 Jun 2003 3:06 pm**

I always remember something that Bob Hofnar once said on a thread that was complex and became convoluted (I'm not saying this thread is convoluted).......

"It's just notes".......

Posted: **3 Jun 2003 8:40 pm**

Where is Bill Hankey ?

Posted: **3 Jun 2003 8:56 pm**

Has any of you older steel players ever taken a chord voicing on the steel and run it up the neck over a blues scale on one of the strings? I really like this latest approach I found with my ear.

**Rockabilly E dom7/4th fret = C# blues scale played on the 2nd string/1st fret, use the inverted 4th voicing on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string (H to L = C#, Bb, Ab). Use frets 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, 11, 13 for the notes found in C# min blues scale/inverted 4th chord. This one sounds best to me for Swinging Hawaiian too. I let my ear lead me to this one. I'm not sure why this one works so good, but it might be that the inverted 4th voicing is related to C# phyrgian ( shares same parent scale as E Dom7) or it might be the related minor to E major which would turn it into C# Aeolean? Yea, this one seems to work best for the C6 steel, on guitar it's not as good?

*I also just look at it as "E" major blues scale starting at the 4th fret on strings 2, 3, and 4. On a 1, 4, 5 chord progression, I phrase it like a sleazy swing, against the E major blues scale found in the 4th fret mixolydian modal box. On the 5 chord B7, I use E minor blues scale/inverted 4th chord trick starting on the 4th fret and take the minor blues scale up the second string/4th fret. The 4 chord can work with either Major or minor blues scale/inverted 4 chord trick. Adding jazz/hick stuff etc to it sounds pretty cool.

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 06 June 2003 at 03:56 PM.]

Posted: **4 Jun 2003 2:54 am**

In E13th tuning you can follow the pattern of the pentatonic blues scale you'd use on standard guitar using the first string root as your guide. Example: Over an A Blues (or C major Country) .... Just grab any handfull of strings on the 3rd, 5th, 8th, 10th, 12th fret etc. How's that for "thoughtless" improvisation? Works in C6th too as you suggesst but not without a little more care in voicing/note choice.

Posted: **4 Jun 2003 7:20 am**

Andy, I just tried it on E13 (Leon) and it sounded pretty hip. This must'a been a common approach back in the day I'm thinking. It's weird how you can find so many different ways to use it and move the blues scale around to different starting points relative to how your thinking about the chord of the moment. Some sound better than others, but it's weird that using this approach sometimes sounds better on guitar or vice versa on steel, depending on what subs your using. This is a good example of how your ear has the final say-so regardless of how the theory is right.[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 04 June 2003 at 09:41 AM.]

Posted: **5 Jun 2003 1:57 am**

<pre>
Practical Basic Uses of Lydian / Dorian in Jesse's great example.
An introduction to easy jazzy voicings.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
(Level 2-3. Requires reading tab and simple time; Might require an
intermediate-level ear for I, IV, V chords and their substitutions.)
</pre>

Jess,

Regarding your WAY COOL blues-scale upward-stepped chord passage example;

PLEASE post us similar stuff you find based upon that.

Continuing to discuss that sucker should be a real lesson in why mode names are sometimes easier to refer to than other names and numbers; Unless I ain't hearing it the same way you are. But shootz; let's give it a try and see what we might similarly hear:

I am assuming the tonic is Edom7. (Because you are right; It works with just about any chord tones you apply it to in a harmonious context!).
<pre>
(SIDENOTE: Everyone please notice that the examples on this page DO NOT have
a tonic mode as a main congruent structure. The examples here change modes
often; Meaning they change keys around I, IV and V roots, in music theory
terms ... which is often not thought of as changing keys by many Musicians.
In loose terms, many Musicians would say the examples are in the key of E;
But because the examples have Mixolydian (dom7) in their I, IV and V chords,
they can't be following one key "church" mode.) I myself think of it in the
key of E, but needed to explain that for clarity.
</pre>
I hear your example setting up Lydian ... which is the same as Dorian that exists in the same parent box, and we can hear as either one depending upon which way we think or hear it (or even if we don't hear / think about it); Either-of-which mode is very cool jazzy voicings with tonic Mixolydian changing keys. Those voicings have been used on jazzy steel as subs for the IV chord or to set suspense up by IV (C#min Dorian = A/#4 Lydian) and I (E Mixolydian) tones existing together which sublimanally the brain wants to reverse in relationship as I (A) and V (E) tones, ... which creates mystery / suspense asking to be resolved. I use Lydian here because the tonal tricks to my ears in your example are voicing trick to 4 tones ... although we can still think of it as a minor Dorian sub for a IVMaj, both with a STRONG IV7 -plus-extensions feel!. This is also a very good example in the difference in sound between using a selective min7 / #4 (or any of the other modes in the box) voicing as opposed to what voicings are afforded in the box. Your example's first fret voicing is both a strong Lydian and Dorian voicing that can't be found in the parent box straight bar ...and it's one of the coolest voicings of either. These tonic Lydian / Dorian 4/7 tones subbing-for / interacting-with I, IV and IV tones are some of the very best jazzy tricks on Steel in my opinion. Actually all the harmony combinations IN THE BOX referenced to Lydian / Dorian afford a cornucopia of similar scalular / harmony licks. I have heard it quite a bit used in momentary IV voicings like one measure of "I", one measure of the "IV" sub, and two more measures of "I" before launching into IVdom7. Modulated keys (Idom7, IVdom7, Vdom7) instead of a tonic mode also lends to opening things up for that kind of work.

HEARING THE IV SUB: Check this lick / chord statement out; Then surf the the box to see the many Lydian / Dorian voices in the box that the lick sets up; ...experimenting with single notes and harmony of different string combinations straight bar (it's almost impossible to make a notes mistake)! Work it by playing Edom7 (E6 fret AND extensions notes at D6 fret) just as much so as not to lose that Edom7 as "I" tone:

<pre>
(Yikes ... Pedals) BOX
]----------0----=4----- ---4---x---6-----------
]-------1--1--1-=4--4-- ---4---x---6-----------
]--2=1--1-----1-=4--4-- ---4---x---6-----------
]--2=1--------------4-- ---4---x---6-----------
]---------------------- ---4---x---6-----------
]---------------------- ---4---x---6-----------
</pre>

The great example you provided set up the Lydian / Dorian big time with the 1st fret voicing, ... and the relationships of the remaining notes of your blues-scale-steps walk-up would depend upon what the rest of the band was doing. The whole passage does have a strong 1,b3,4,b5,5,b7,1 tones movement in most contexts I hear in your example. It sounds like it inverts much like a diminished does moving up in minor3rd steps (but it probably doesn't), only it does it on the blues scale steps.
Your example is also a great statement of a "subliminal" tonal air of suspense / mystery like "where the heck is I, IV, V and VImin ... UNTIL it is resolved by picking the IVdom7 back up in the song's theme. At least I hear it precursor to a IVdom7, ... but I can also hear the whole band stop at the end of the passage suspense point, a mini drum solo for a measure, and the band kicking hard in Idom7 again.

Here are similar tones set up closer to being resolved by a song going into it's IVdom7 theme:

Try this:
<pre>
The "I" chord tonic key is E.
E A E E7/9
]-----------------------0---4----------------------------------------
]-----------4-----------1-1-4---4-------------4-5=6--11=13--16-------
]---------4-4---4---2=1---1-4---4---------4---4-5=6--11=13--16--16---
]-------4-4-----4---2=1-----------------4-----4-5=6--11=13--16--16---
]---3=4-4---------------------------3=4-------------------------16---
]---3=4--------------------------------------------------------------
4/4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
</pre>

Here it is (in a simple form) left hanging way out for the surprise of a song's dom7 to kick in. When woodshedding this, ...after the passage, use an abundance of notes on the extension notes fret in IV & V dom7 stuff you make up yourself):
<pre>

]-----------------------6==7==8----11=13---------
]-----1-----4-----6-----6==7==8----11=13----13---
]-----1-----4-----6-----6==7==8----11=13----13---
]-----1-----4-----6-------------------------13---
]---------------------------------------------------
]---------------------------------------------------
4/4 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4
</pre>

Here's some IV,V,I ideas:
Remember that I am a simplistic player; You might have much better ideas for chords and licks:
<pre>
The "I" chord tonic key is E7.
C#min7
A7 E6(not7) Ebtriad

]--------------9-8-7------------------------------------11----10-------
]------------9-9-8-7-7-------------------------9--10=11-11----10-10----
]----------9-9-------7-7-------------9=11------9--10=11----------10--
]--------9-9-----------7-7-------9---9=11---------------11----10-----
]----8=9-9---------------7-6-8-9-9-------------9--10=11----------10----
]----8=9-------------------6-8-9-----9=11----------------------------
4/4 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4
</pre>
<pre>
F#min7 B7/9 b6 E
-----9-----------11-9--------------------------------------------------
---9-9-----9-----11-9-9--------------3=4-3=4--------------4-----4------
-9-9-9---9-9----------9-9---------11-3=4-3=4----------4-------4--------
-9-9-----9-9------------9---------11-3=4-3=4------------4---4----------
-9-------9----------------9-10-11-11-3=4-3=4---------------------------
--------------------------9-10-11--------------------------------------
1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4
</pre>

<pre>
Well that's about enough poop with a 103 degree temperature! YUK.
</pre>

<pre>
cr2003wdt
</pre>[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 05 June 2003 at 03:13 AM.]

Posted: **5 Jun 2003 8:22 am**

I think one of the things about the C6 tuning itself that makes it so attractive .... is the SYMMETRY of its intervals:

String 6-5 ... Major Third (C-E)

String 5-4 ... Minor Third (E-G)

String 4-3 ... Major Second (G-A)

String 3-2 ... Minor Third (A-C)

String 2-1 ... Major Third (C-E)

Somethin' like Dennys "pyramid run" example above really illustrates it ...

"Happy Maj 3rd" to the "Sad Min 3rd" to the "Uneasy Maj 2nd" ... back to the Min 3rd then to the Maj 3rd ... etc. etc

Makes for a very satisfying "strum" too

Just thought I'd throw that in ...

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 05 June 2003 at 09:31 AM.]

Posted: **5 Jun 2003 10:18 am**

Yes Rick, I'm starting to be really drawn into the 6-string C6 tuning myself. I had known that by lowering the 4th and 8th strings on my E9th pedal steel I could get sort of a C6 tuning, but only upon reading this thread did I realize that I have available the exact tuning and number of strings in a highly regarded 6-string tuning. I should cruise No Peddlers more often.

I actually bought DeWitt Scott's 6-string C6 course yesterday, after I saw that I could get all of the slants he shows with pedals or a lever.

I'm kind of jazzed about this.

Posted: **5 Jun 2003 11:09 am**

Rick, your right. I look at strings 6 and 5 sometimes as a repeat of strings 1 and 2, therefore, I have been finding scales with the root on the 4th string e.g. E dom7 = substitution D major scale = 4th string at the 7th fret "D". It kinda connects a big chunk of the fret board this way when using those two approaches ( minor up a 5th or major down a whole step). Work's great over a Dom7 in a 12 bar blues. Throw the "blues scale trick" over the top of each Dom7 and you start to sound like a horn section from the old days if you phrase like them.

Here's a 12 bar blues in C to practice your substitutions over.

4/4 | C9 (Bb tonal center) | F9 (Cm tonal center) | C9 | C9 (Bb tonal center) | F9 | F9 | C9 |C9 | G9 (Dm tonal center) | F9 (Eb tonal center) |C9 |G9 |

The (tonal center) stuff are just substitution ideas. There are 4 beats in a measure with the rhythm landing on the 1 beat and the & of the 2 beat". Think Grant Green...

Here it is for E blues, my favorite:

4/4 |E9 |A9 |E9 |E9 |A9 |A9 |E9 |E9 |B9 |A9 |E9 |B9 |

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 05 June 2003 at 12:42 PM.]

Posted: **5 Jun 2003 1:31 pm**

Rick,

There is also similar symetry between the "operating" frets in each box ... although I have not had the chance to thoroughly analyze it yet. The whole step between the 5th and 6th note in the tuning plays a big part in stringing out the intervals on both frets in each box in a manner that affords interval harmonies straight bar yet still functions as one side of the modal slide rule which remains congruent when slid along the church mode sequence on the other side of the slide rule.

In the box itself, harmony in the intervals you pointed out, is there straight-bar for whatever notes the ear selects on either fret of the box regardless of what mode is referenced. Meaning we can even play random notes in a box and the harmonies will be right there with it ... which is pretty phoenominal to me.

What is perplexing without having analyzed it, ...is that although the "operating" frets in the box are a whole step distance, ...the half steps in modal slide-rule sequences remain intact as the box on one side of the slide rule is referenced to any mode sequence on the other side of the slide rule. It's easy to say "Duhhhh, if it makes a church mode scale then it will work on the slide rule"; BUT, that just isn't the case as we can see with other tunings that DON'T / WON'T remain intact as one side of the mode slide-rule.

Hmmmmmmmm.........

Posted: **5 Jun 2003 7:06 pm**

<pre>
Tying In Modes / Chords With Their 6th Chord Substitutions &
Realizing That Each Mode's Box HAS an Arsenal of Notes
Waiting For You in an Amazingly Simple Package.
---------------------------------------
Expanding on my last post examples;
Easy development of jazzy chord substitutions.

===========================================================
Difficulty Level 1-2. Must be able to play a 6th chord,
and be able to basically understand and count time,
and be able to figure out simple charts.
</pre>

OK; Here are tabs I recently posted as the 1st 4 bars in working with Jesse's blues steps walk-up idea. The tabs are followed by resuming the "song" at the IV7 with shorthand notation.

Folks, NOW IS THE TIME, if you haven't already, to realize that EACH MODE'S BOX affords you the ability to make a VERY GOOD showing with jazzy licks. ANY NOTE AND HARMONIES COMBINATION IN THE CORRECT BOX WILL WORK (albeit a very few that don't quite sound as good as others). Each 6th chord has a mode box to the left of that chord AND to the right of that chord. You CAN simply play the 6th chord AS A SUBSTITUTION (the simple substitution method of my system vs it's other more complex methods of substitution). But above each 6th chord substitution I've written in the charts below, I've also provided a mode that will be in a box either to the left of the 6th sub chord or the right of the 6th sub chord; So if you're still not up to speed on knowing the specific notes of a box ... NO NEED TO WORRY ... ALL YOU GOT TO DO IS DETERMINE WHICH BOX SOUNDS RIGHT for what you WILL hear in the 6th substitution chord. Once you determine the correct box, you have got a cornucopia of passages for each chord ...and with just a little bit of woodshedding you can make a VERY GOOD showing playing jazzy stuff. Pretty soon you'll gain the confidence of being able to lines you hear AND THEIR HARMONIES WILL AUTOMATICALLY BE THERE if you're in the correct box.

TO GET USED TO THE SOUNDS, JUST USE THE 6TH CHORDS AT FIRST UNTIL YOU MEMORIZE THE PROGRESSION IN 6TH CHORD SUBSTITUTIONS; THEN go surf each of the stated modes' boxes that WILL have your arsenal of notes for each chord.

The L/R arrows in the notations below, show which side of the 6th substitution chord the box for that mode is in. MEANING ANY NOTES THEREIN WILL WORK FOLKS ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Here is my previously posted example of a passage that sets up for a resolution to IV7, .... followed by the shorthand notation that picks up at the IV7 the passage is leading to:

<pre>
The "I" chord tonic key is E.
E A E E7/9
]-----------------------0---4-----------------------------------------
]-----------4-----------1-1-4---4-------------4-5=6--11=13--16--------
]---------4-4---4---2=1---1-4---4---------4---4-5=6--11=13--16--16----
]-------4-4-----4---2=1-----------------4-----4-5=6--11=13--16--16----
]---3=4-4---------------------------3=4-------------------------16----
]---3=4---------------------------------------------------------------
4/4 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 *
</pre>
<pre>
Mix. A Dor. Ab Phr. Ion. Bb Loc. Mix.
< > < < < <
A6 C6 B6 E6 F#6 B6
4/4: 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

Mix. Dor. Mix. Mix. F# Dor. Mix. Mix.
< > < < > < <
E6 *C#min6 E6-D#-D C#6 A6 B6 E6
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

*use the C#min6 voicing on the first fret that Jesse gave us recently:
]---0---
]---1---
]---1---
]---1---
]-------
]-------
</pre>
--------------------------------------
Another nice way to move from E to a resolve in the final 8 measures of an appropriate song:
<pre>
E Mix. E Aol. Eb Loc. C# Dor. F# Dor. Lyd.Mix.Mix.
< > < > > > < <
E6 C6 B6 E6 A6 F6 B6 E6
4/4: 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
</pre>

--------------------------------------

Here is an example of resolving Jesse's idea as it hangs in the air in suspense waiting to be resolved; Followed by an example of some nice relative changes that provide some jazzy movement to bring the C#min sound that's hanging out, back to Edom7:

<pre>
]-----------------------6==7==8----11=13---------
]-----1-----4-----6-----6==7==8----11=13----13---
]-----1-----4-----6-----6==7==8----11=13----13---
]-----1-----4-----6-------------------------13---
]------------------------------------------------
]------------------------------------------------
4/4 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4
</pre>
<pre>
Mix. F Dor. C# Ion. Bb Dor. D# Dor. F#Dr. ADor. E Ion.
< > < > > > < > > <
F#6 A6 G#6 C#6 F#6 A6 B6 C6 C6=B6=E6=B6
4/4: 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
</pre>

<pre>
ALOHA,
DT~
still YUK.
</pre>
<pre>
cr2003wdt
</pre>[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 06 June 2003 at 01:57 PM.]

Posted: **6 Jun 2003 6:26 am**

Denny, that's a nice little lick on the 1st and 2nd beat of the 2nd measure, 1st tab. I understand your shorthand o.k., works great with the modal boxes! Thanks...[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 06 June 2003 at 07:40 AM.]

Posted: **6 Jun 2003 2:11 pm**

Please notice that in my last posting, in the first tablature's shorthand notations, I mis-stated the voicing of the chord Jesse gave us. I just corrected the posting.
I originally noted it as Cmin7 when it should have been C#min6. It is a voicing of C#min7 Dorian. C#min7 Dorian's full scale is in the Edom7 (Mixolydian) "Homebase" box where the 6 note is on the opposite fret from the C#min7 signature chord, ...so to make C#min6 we had to go out of the box to find it voiced in partials of C#6 and make it minor by the open 1st string being b3.

ALOHA,
DT~[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 06 June 2003 at 03:14 PM.]

Posted: **6 Jun 2003 2:16 pm**

Thanks Jesse, ...but YOU inspired that little ditty! It's just a purposeful fancied version of the chord you provided us. Had you not provided your blues scale-steps example, god-knows how long it would have been before I remembered and thought about where I'd heard that voicing context before. I used the "pedal"-drop thang to accentuate the b7 being dropped to 6 ... and then went back to the Edom7 box in that measure to demonstrate what box it's mode is in.

I don't know if you noticed, but in all those shorthand notations after the tabs, it is most enlighening to find and play ONLY the triads of each of the modes noted. That provides the tonal movement I heard / used in those chord changes. I know you realize it, but for others that might not yet, ... I could have used other modes in each one of those 6th chord boxes for different tone movements.

--------------------

For folks that desire to discover or improve their ear for tone movements in chord changes, a good exercise is just to hum notes in half-time over chord changes, like a bass might do. Once you get the hang of that, you should then hum the root note you hear when a chord changes followed by whatever notes you desire until the next chord change where it's perceived root should be hummed again. To refine this technique, you should try to make your hummed notes not have wide note-intervals between them, and make them be linear and melodic like a good bass player does. Once you get the hang of this technique then you can do it on your steel ... where with a bit of woodshedding you will find that you can similarly play movements with 2 and 3 note chords TAKEN RIGHT FROM the correct place in the correct box that are all lined up like magic.

--------------------

I cannot overemphasize the importance of THOROUGHLY analyzing the CHARTS I posted 05 June 2003 08:06 PM. Every 6th chord, and every box, and each of the modes the 6th chord is subbing for should be indivudually and thoroughly analyzed until you clearly understand WHY the 6th chord subs for that mode chord in the same box, AND PARTICULARLY you should fully understand that notes to solo with in any combinations are all laid out in their correct "Homebase" 6th chord boxes with their harmonies laid out like Magic; You would have to deliberately try to make a mistake to play wrong notes if you are in the correct Homebase box!

---------------------

Sick puppy on the Northshore,
ALOHA,
DT[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 06 June 2003 at 03:23 PM.]

Posted: **6 Jun 2003 3:46 pm**

I've discovered that the Blues scale/ inverted 4th voicing trick works best over a 1, 4, 5 chord progression like this:

I Dom7 = E7 = E major blues scale/ inverted 4th voicing starting on the 4th fret on strings 2, 3, 4. Frets 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, 11, 13. This is the C#minor blues scale if you start on the 1st fret. The 4th fret starts E major blues scale.

IV Dom7 = A7 = E major or minor blues scale/inverted 4th voicing starting on the 4th fret on strings 2, 3, 4.

V Dom7 = B7 = E minor blues scale/inverted 4th voicing starting at the 4th fret. Frets 4, 7, 9, 10, 11, 14, 16 on strings 2, 3, 4.

This approach has a great Rockabilly/Western swing feel to it.

For a full explaination of this approach, go to:

Page 6 of this thread, 30 May 2003 @ 5:56 p.m.

Page 7 of this thread, 3 June 2003 @ 9:27 a.m.

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 06 June 2003 at 05:10 PM.]

Posted: **9 Jun 2003 11:37 pm**

Bump, while we're taking a rest from modal brain cramps.

Posted: **12 Jun 2003 7:05 pm**

<pre>
A Scale Note Sequence Pattern that overlays any mode box;
Which will provide in-mode scale notes perfect IVths
and Vths from every mode in the box.
------------------------------------------------------
Music understanding level: 2-4 of 5 being highest.
Provides general scale notes utility, level 2,
but also provides some much deeper / advanced modal relationships.
</pre>
I have often found it handy, needed, opportune, etc ...to have same-root Ionian scale notes co-located with a Mixolydian box. It provides subs that occur between I,IV,V Mixolydian - Ionian. (V Mixolydian = I Ionian; So conversely I Mixolydian = IV Ionian). So if we're playing I Mixolydian and change it to I Ionian via the scale notes pattern shown below, then we are now playing V Mixolydian. To get IV Mixolydian we can move the pattern down 2 frets.

This pattern is also very utilitarian in providing Maj7 scale notes right there with the 6th chord voicing, affording us the 6th chord as an additional Maj7 voicing along with it's Maj7 scale notes.

<pre>
Ionian notes around the Mixolydian box.
Ionian scale NOTE numbers.
[Mixolydian] F Ionian notes.
[ Ionian ] Tablature.
--2---x---3---4----- -6-5-----------------------------3-5-6--
------x---1---x---2- -7-5-7-5-----------------------5--------
--5---x---6---x---7- -----7-5-7-5-3-------------5-7----------
--4---x---5---x---6- ---------------3-------3-5-------3-5-7--
--2---x---3---4----- ---------------3-5-3-5-3-5-----5--------
------7---1---x---2- ---------7-5-4---5-4-5-----5-7----------
</pre>

In the same way that Ionian and Mixolydian sub for each other in I,IV,V relationships, ...Aolean and Dorian do the same thing. So it's good to know that the "scale" pattern shown here will work for them too. I Aolean = IV Dorian; So if you're playing I Dorian, then this I Aolean pattern will get you IV Dorian. In the same manner, if you're using this pattern for I Dorian, than shifting back into the boxes will get you to IV and V Dorian.

Being able to overlay Aolean scale notes over the Dorian signature chord also gives a different voicing for Aeolean since the Dorian voicing is all but the b6 voicing of Aeolean. In other words you get Aolean scale over a different chord voicing of Aolean than in the Aeolean box. The Aeolean box ain't real fat on an Aeolean chord voicing!

(As a matter of fact, EVERY minor mode except Locrian is a min7, ... so the Dorian box signature CHORD will "substitute" as a chord for all minor modes but Locrian, when higher extension qualities or not necessary)

<pre>
Aolean notes around the Dorian box.
Aolean scale NOTE numbers.
[ Dorian ] D Aolean notes.
[ Aolean ] Tablature.
--4---x---5---6----- -6-5-----------------------------3-5-6--
------x---3---x---4- -7-5-7-5-----------------------5--------
--7---x---1---x---2- -----7-5-7-5-3-------------5-7----------
--6---x---7---x---1- ---------------3-------3-5-------3-5-7--
--4---x---5---6----- ---------------3-5-3-5-3-5-----5--------
------2---3---x---4- ---------7-5-4---5-4-5-----5-7----------
</pre>

The pattern overlaying "I"Phrygian provides "I"Aeolean which is V Phrygian. You will find similar sub realationships with this pattern for every mode in a box.

Beyond the above demonstration, the deeper utitlity of this scale notes pattern laid over a box can only be understood by studying how it works for each mode. Have fun.

Aloha,
DT~
<pre>
cr2003wdt
</pre>[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 13 June 2003 at 12:24 PM.]

Posted: **13 Jun 2003 11:20 am**

It looks like Denny has made his "Navigating Chords and Scales" easier to read and quicker to the point. I found it to be a quick easy read and a great review, here's the site:
http://www.dennysguitars.homestead.com/modes7steel.html

*Denny's post up above is cool and I would like to remind ya'll to pay attention to the root, 3rd, 5th and 7th of each chord/scale your using no matter what kind of substitution is going on at the moment. It's important to outline the harmony of the moment as well as letting sub/positions exspose notes on the fly.

Posted: **15 Jun 2003 4:06 am**

<pre>
Brief familiarization exercises in the Maj7 box.
------------------------------------------------
Player level 2-3 of 5 being highest.
Requires ability to read simple tablature, and;
basic abilities using dynamic bar slants and twists,
and good muting-stop/blocking technique is called for.
</pre>

Here are a couple of tricks on the upper and lower end of the Maj7 box scale. Don't overlook the really cool and nice stuff that is in the Maj7 box patterns. Using the 6th (7/9/11) box and the Maj7 box together provides an arsenal of exploration and potential.

CMaj7 scale.
<pre> CHIME
]----7===8---7---5-----------------------------------------------0(12)
]------------7---5---7---5---------------------------------------0(12)
]----7===7-----------7---5---7---5-------------------------------0(12)
]------------------------------------4===5-----------5========---0(12)
]----------------------------------------------------------------0(12)
]----------------------------7---5---5===4-------4>5==-5>4====---0(12)
4/4 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3
</pre>

Here is a similar use of the Maj7 scale notes. Good muting-stop technique will sort out the bar slides and sustains.
<pre>
]--------8---------------------------------------------------------
]--------------7====-----------------------------------------------
]----7=8==-8=7======-7=5====-------------5-------------------------
]----------------7==-----5==-4======-4>5====-5======-----5=========
]------------------------------------------------------------------
]--------------------7=5====-5======-5======-4======-4>5==-5>4=====
4/4 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1
</pre>
I have published online a chart and two brief tabs if you care to quickly review the CMaj7 box notes, scale harmony and another short familiarlization passage.

Aloha,
DT~
<pre>
cr2003wdt
</pre>
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 15 June 2003 at 10:44 PM.]

Posted: **20 Jun 2003 10:14 pm**

<pre>
9 measures of more licks working between the Maj7 and 6th/9/11 boxes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ability level 1-2. Requires reading tab and good steel-bar, single note
and hand muting techniques. Exercises like this help develop those skills.
</pre>
This is a non-pedal Steel adaptation of Don Curtis's (Pedal Steel) "Shortest Song in the World" (Etched in Steel CD; #DECCD1 1999).
This ditty works between the C Maj7 Ionian box and the C6/7/9/11 Mixolydian box and small lick pockets in between; And has some classic country licks to add to the licks in these boxes I've already posted. This piece is composed of some classic kick-off and song ending licks ... and in itself is a very short "Break-time" piece.
This tablature is postions only and cannot reflect the nuances of creative timing, bar-vibrato, glistens, slurs, etc (at least I can't write tab that well!); But you should be able to hear and develop same even without the CD ... although the CD is very nice Pedal Steel work and allot of fun to adapt to non-pedal Steel and try to find "pedal"-like licks and voicings.

Key of C.
<pre>
[C] slant
]------------------------------------------8-----------------------
]--------------------------2-----------------------9-------7-------
]------------------3---2-----------5======(7)----------------------
]------------------------------5==========(7)----------------------
]----------3---3---------------------------------------------------
]------------------------------------------------------------------
4/4 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

[G] [C]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------5=6---5-------------------7======(5)==============
7==5-------------5=6---5-------5===7-------7---7===5-------5----5==
-------5-------5---------------------------------------5-------5---
-----------5-------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------5===7-----------7===5===============
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

-----------12------12======10-------------------------------------
==(7)------------------------------12======7-------7======(7)=====
===7---------------------------------------7-------7======(7)=====
-----------12------12======10-------------------------------------
-----------------------------------12======--------7======(7)=====
==(7)-------------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

[G] [C]
-------------------12------10--------------------------------------
===17------------------------------12------9-----9=7---------------
===17--------------------------------------------------7===5=======
-------------------12------10-----------------9===(7)---------5====
===17------------------------------12----------------------------5=
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

[G] [C]
---------------------------------[
---------------------------------[
===------------------------------[
==-5-----------------------------[
===------------------------------[
----------2======4===============[
1 2 3 4
</pre>

Other songs on this pedal Steel CD that lend well to learning to play in and out of the boxes and finding adaptions to non-pedal steel are "Steel Guitar Rag", "3 Days", "Last Date", "A Way to Survive", "Sleepwalk", and "Honkey Tonk" (also a good rythm track to woodshed boogie swing).
Some of the licks in the exercises I've posted most recently lend well to adapting non-pedal steel to "pedal"-like licks we hear. After all, the pedal steel was invented to extend the voicings of those licks that had already been discovered and used on non-pedal Steel.

Aloha,
DT~
<pre>
Special THANKS to Robt. Rapp for sending me this CD; And to Don Curtis
for sending me the very nice personal note, and for giving all of us the
very nice Steel work on the CD.
</pre>
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 20 June 2003 at 11:24 PM.]

Posted: **21 Jun 2003 9:39 am**

Denny, I have been trying to lay pedal steel licks over the C6 neck too, it is definitely one of the cool ways to find ones way around the neck. Thanks for those examples, they sound pretty nice. It would be great if your book had a chapter on pedal steel licks for non pedal C6.

The Steel Guitar Forum

C6th lap steel modal theory site