The Steel Guitar Forum

Well folks, I never debate 4 things with others, I don't care how they ask me. The 4 things are religion, wine, colours and music. To me, if you want to belong to the right religion, you have to join them all, otherwise, somebody is telling you he(she) is better.

Re the wine, somebody said to me one time, "Hey George, try this really good wine, it's "1847 Rogers Bros" (made that up). When I responded, "It tastes like battery acid to me", they were quite indignant.

Colours-well, have you ever visited open houses when your were searching for a new home? And you wonder "why would anybody paint that room in the terrible colour"????

Music-well, you just have to belong to the SGF to know you don't tell anybody that the best is.................!!!!!!!!!

Have a great day folks.

Hey Mike, we had a group in the fifties, it was known as the Four Skins!!!!!

Geo

I thought one guy in a band I played in was a lousy musician, but then I found out he just drank too much. Boy, you think you know somebody, but then...

(I, on the other hand, am above reproach. How about you?)

This is different than having band members that were in trouble or stuff,but I use to work at the local hospital as an EMT on the ambulance. One day we got called out to a one vehicle accident on I-70. Two guys from a different country had hit a bridge railing. After we left the scene on the way to hospital, the state police opened up their trunk and found stolen credit cards and laptop computers, these two fellers were Russian Mafia members. Stealing these things and taking them to Russia to sell. After I found out who they were it really gave me some cold chills. <font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Luke Morell on 18 October 2006 at 08:27 PM.]</p></FONT>

... so you gave them too much sedative, right? Oops!

I truly believe that if you want to see anything bad in life, just take a night out and go to a bar or night club. I've seen a guy killed, I've seen some of the worst fights and I've seen knives and guns pulled on people, I think that's where the worst of the worst hang out and I've been playing bars since I was 14 years old going into the kitchen on breaks until I turned 21 and I'm now 63 years old and I think I've seen just about everything there is to see in a bar. I would rather stay home with my wonderful wife and watch a good movie with her.
Gene

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If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!

I truly believe that if you want to see anything bad in life, just take a night out and go to a bar or night club. I've seen a guy killed, I've seen some of the worst fights and I've seen knives and guns pulled on people, I think that's where the worst of the worst hang out and I've been playing bars since I was 14 years old going into the kitchen on breaks until I turned 21 and I'm now 63 years old and I think I've seen just about everything there is to see in a bar. I would rather stay home with my wonderful wife and watch a good movie with her.
Gene

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If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!

Gene, it's a shame your lawyer blew it.
The guy who should have been sued, if anyone,
was the bar owner.

1 you didn't play the gig
2 you didn't get paid
3 the guy sueing you was the reason you lost the gig.
(of course he said nothing about him and bar owners dispute before hand...)
4 the decision not to play the club was the bar owners, not yours.
(not with this guitarist, no guitarist no gig ; not your fault)

total : bad lawyer. (And VERY bad guitarist)
The judge wasn't too sharp either IMHO.
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 18 October 2006 at 09:25 PM.]</p></FONT>

I forgot to mention a couple of little items that had a very big effect on my decision to not contest this and to go ahead and pay this jerk.
Number one, I was very young and somewhat innocent back then and was sort of a hick from the sticks and also my size, at that time 5' 6" and 125 lbs and he wa about 6' 2" and 250 lbs, had a lot to do with it. Number two, just before we went down to the club to set up, we checked into our motel room and this guitar player opened his suitcase and I glanced over at it and saw a 44 magnum on top of his clothes. I didn't say anything because I didn't want to alarm him, but I made a very big mental note of this and kept it in the back of my mind over the next two years and didn't want this dude coming after me when he got out of prison, so I payed the jerk and never saw him again, it could have turned out different if I had refused.
I really don't think the club owner was at fault on this, he had been taken by this guy , same as me and he didn't want taken a second time. This guitar player knew exactly what he was doing right from the get go and knew he wasn't welcome in that club, but never said a word. I learned a huge lesson from that experience and it never happened again, although I have ran into a lot of other dudes I wouldn't trust or believe for matter, or pal around with, no matter how many notes they play or how much they impressed me with they're pickin. If you can't trust a person and take him for his word , he ain't worth a damn to anyone. JMHO
Gene

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If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!

after reading all of this....i think i'll just stick to playing for myself, its a lot safer

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Mullen SD-10 3&5 / nashville 400

Well. I think I'll go working on my new backing-tracks now

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

Gene, very good points.
I based my comments on this

<SMALL>I contacted a lawyer and he said I didn't have a leg to stand on</SMALL>

Your lawyer should have told the court,
it was not you that lost the gig and the pay.
It was the actions of others ; guitarist and club owner.
The judge should have seen it wasn't your actions
that caused the loss of pay.

But with the foreknowlege that this was
A DANGEROUS MAN YOUR WERE DEALING WITH,
YES PAY OFF THE PSYCO AND MOVE ON..
seems a good course.

I know that this might appear somewhat off topic, but has it ever appeared to anybody, that the only legal rights that really seem untouchable and held high at all times, are the legal rights of the subjects "in care" of the system?

The rights of people able to live their lives without being a pest for other people, largely minding their own business, are often neglected.

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

You're right on Klaus!!!!That's exactly the way I see it also.
Gene

While it was not someone I played music with, it turns out that I knew someone from back when I was around 12 or 13 that turned out to be quite "famous", or perhaps "infamous" is more the word.

I attended a small country Church with my parents, and met a boy there who was about a year younger than myself. We would visit, talk on the phone occasionally, and we also would target practice with bows, that he made, and arrows. We weren't the best of friends, but pretty good friends I'd say.

As people often do, we quit visiting much and then I didn't see him for several years. I had pretty much forgotten about him, until I heard him mentioned on the news a bit, about a month or so ago.

His name was John Mark Karr.

Lem I bet the context was a bit of a shocker too.

In the aftermath I am not surprised that the Bangkok police's
lack of command of english,
general misunderstanding of foriegners,
and propensity of guilt until proven inocent "Perp Walks"
set the stage for a mismanaged public debut of JMK.

And of course we know how well the Calf. town cops,
kept the evendence sancrosanct.
Our tax dollars or baht at work.

Still sure fits the;
not knowing someone,
even if your think you did theme here.
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 October 2006 at 05:18 AM.]</p></FONT>

Hi David,

Yes, quite a shocker for certain, when news first broke that he was the one who had killed JonBenet. I mean, to think you actually knew the person supposedly responsible for one of the most notorious crimes in many years is a trip, to say the least.

While it turns out that JMK wasn't the one responsible for the death of JonBenet, I did go to school with another boy who murdered both of his grandparents, after allegedly watching the movie, "The Executioners Song", which was about the life of condemned murderer Gary Gilmore.

You just never know people I guess.

<SMALL>opened his suitcase and I glanced over at it and saw a 44 magnum on top of his clothes</SMALL>

With business associates like that...we talkin' Tony Soprano's kinda "bizzness"

Hey Gene;
You took the smart way out. The measly $400.00 was cheap insurance as opposed to having to look over your shoulder every time you'd leave the house.

I don't think that there are too many of us that would take crap from some scum-bag on any given day. However, there are certain circumstances that warrant a "smart" approach to resolve an issue. Such as with your story.

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Sho-Bud LDG, Gretsch Syncromatic Lap Steel, Bach Stradivarious 37 Trumpet, Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn, Fender Precision Bass (pre-CBS)

I agree with David D. that a case could have been made. In a civil suit, culpability can be shared, and the guitarist could be shown to be 100% liable, mitigated with be-frauding you, Gene.
But by the time it got to court, the lawyer costs more than $400.
And then there's that Magnum...
That's the most outrageous story I've read here yet!

Charlie and Everyone else, Thank You for your replies.
This happened 41 years ago and it still bothers me to think that this man did what he did to me. I just know in my heart though, that I did the right thing. The Sheriff didn't tell me how many years this guy got behind bars, but I was married and had two little children at that time also and all sorts of things went through my mind, and I talked it over and over with my wife at that time and she agreed that knowing what kind of character this guy was, there was no telling what he would do and it would not have been terribly difficult for him to find me, as I was known by all musicians across the Northwest, so hind site being 20/20 and knowing what I knew at the time, I still think I did the right thing as far as my family and myself were concerned.
The only reason I brought this up on the forum was because I was curious as to whether anyone else had ever experienced anything like this and it's been bothering me for 41 years.
This guitar player is probably still laughing about this, but myself, I've never thought for a minute it was funny at all.
Gene

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If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!

Hi Gene, I am always screening people when I meet them. I am a retired Deputy sheriff and Prison Guard. I get this sense that this person is hiding something and sure as heck they are. It's terrible to have gone thru with what you had to put up with . Some people are just B'sers and you can't trust the. It seems like most of the people I have meant on the forum are regular down to earth people who just want to play their music and share tales with you. Just keep your eyes open up there where you live a lot of people not wanting to be found could show up. But then again its like that anywhere nowdays. If something don't feel right and you have a feeling about something your probably picking up on bad vibes the person in question is sending off.

One of my last New England country bands,
had a sax player leader.
He had a odd-ball and unpopular car, but a turbo model.
And he thought it was a "true collectors item".
Yeah right an AMC Turbo Pacer .. is collectable...

Well I was on the way to a St Paddy's day gig
and was supposed to ride with the lead player,
a very old friend.
He had been in party animal mode the night before,
so asked me to drive his van till the coffee kicked in
Having a NEARLY identical model Dodge van I said sure.

Well he never mentioned that the automatic shift lever
was not properly connected to the gear indicator.
About two notches out of place.
I drove in very slow trafic in a low gear and didn't notice.

At a stop light, he decides he's ok to drive.
I put it in PARK... which turned out to be reverse...
Not my fault. Just did what I do in my van.

But I got thrown over the card table
in the BACK of the van
because it, slowly, at idle,
backed into the collectors item car.
So slow I never felt it moving.

If I had been warned about the wonky broken shift indicator,
I wouldn't have treated it like
the identical unit in my car. ie. WORKING.

But at the time of the accident
I was NOT in the drivers seat, he was.
My bruised family jewels were testament to that.

Well guess what, with too many insurance claims,
my buddy wanted it off his insurance.

The Pacer wingnut decided not to call it
a parking lot fender bender,
and avoid HIS insurance too,
and then wanted me to pay for it all,
then SUED ME because I wouldn't eat the
whole loss, for damaging his 'collectors item'.

I felt, and still do, I was not directly at fault.
If anyone, it was my friend for failing
to tell me of his shifters problem.
One cannot expect someone to know in advance of
a defetcive mechanism if they are not told.
it was reasonable to assume I WAS familiar with this model vehicle in GOOD condition.

Well I got canned from the band because
I only agreed to pay 1/2 of the insurance deductable,
with me 'friend' the other half. This being a nice gesture.

Well brainless leader decided to take me to small claims court.
I insisted my 'friend' come and testify.
No lawyers needed, I could defend myself

Well I did, and the judge agreed with me 100%.
He pretty much yelled at Pacer guy for wasting HIS time,
and my friend for wasting MY time and HIS.

And made Pacer guy pay all court costs.
And then go use his insurance.

Oh and he told him to pay me back the 1/2 deductable.
Which he never did.
He STILL thought I should have paid.
"That judge is wrong." DUH!

Me I only lost 4 months of work,
and a day in court..
and the $120, 1/2 deductable that
I paid to supposedly keep my gig.
Only to be fired anyway, for not picking up
the WHOLE $1,800+ tab for an AMC Pacer front bumper.
Rather than they using EITHER insurance.

My friend felt bad, and did testify on my behalf,
but not bad enought to use his inssurance.
It was ALL so unnesessary.

20 years or so later, last year,
this same 'friend' wanted to borrow $10,000
from me...
right after I sold my house.

He had bought a big house/business and WAY over-extended,
both for his budget and the market.
And also didn't sell another property
in a timely fashion,
holding out for some reason.
That proved quite wrong.

I knew I was going to build down here,
and needed it; no question,
before I had ANY reasonable expectation
to get it back from him.
I had to say no...
He is now not talking to me...

I have no idea if he lost the big place or not,
but he waited till push was
2 months late for shove,
and I couldn't bail him out.

Even if he seems to think I could have easily.
Not so, I would have royaly screwed myself...
but hey ya think you know someone...
Nope.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 26 October 2006 at 09:18 PM.]</p></FONT>

I have one other story where I was screwed out of another $450.00, not the same way and I will still not mention the man's name.
I don't know if anyone has ever worked in Anchorage, Alaska at the Pines Club or not, but I did my time there for about a year in a group, which was the second group there as they had two bands playing at one time, our band was called Family Tradition, good group BTW.
Anyway, it was 1984 and in the middle of winter and the guy that owned the pines club had a band trailer that he let band members stay in.
It was a real cold night and the furnace went out so I called the Club Owner and told him because I was afraid his pipes would freeze up and he said for "me" to call a furnace guy in to fix it, I said who, I don't know who you deal with and he said anyone! So I called the furnace guy in and he was there for about 2 1/2 hours and put a new furnace blower fan in and said to me, "That will be $450.00" and I said I'm not the owner of the trailer and I said just a minute and I will call him.
So I called him and he said would I please just go ahead and pay him and to come to the club tomorrow and he would refund my money
What a freakin joke, I went down there and first of all he wouldn't let me in his office so I sit there for a couple of hours waiting and finally he let me in and I said I would like to get my refund.
He said you've got some nerve, you stay in my band trailer for free and then you ask me for a refund, hahahaha. I never got it.
There's also another little thing I should have stated up front, this guy hired me long distance and I sent him tapes and whatever else he needed of my playing and singing and he couldn't wait to get me there. The friend that I went with up there had already known him from previous years and when we got there he took me over to the club owner to introduce me and I stuck my hand out to shake hands and he didn't even lift his arm and said "I just want you to know that I HATE
steel guitar and the only reason I hired you was because I couldn't find a lead guitar player" Man talk about humiliation.
And to top that off, he would come out in front of the bandstand and sit at a table right in fron of me and stare at me sometimes for an hour.
It's funny though how "what comes around goes around" cause a couple of years after I left there, his wife sued him for divorce cause she caught him cheating and took him for everything, LOL ))))
That other musician that came with me is a forum member by the name of Bill Nauman, agood friend and he can vouch for every word I said.
Nice world out there, eh?
Gene

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If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!