Where On Earth Are They!

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 26 Aug 2005 6:47 pm

There seems to be a whole lost generation of amazing local players that had sit down gigs all over the country. Guys like Tommy Vollmer (spelling ?) in PA. That guy knows a couple chords !

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Bob
My Website

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 26 Aug 2005 7:28 pm

A great local player from around St. Louis is relatively unknown. I had the chance to play guitar with his band around 15 yrs. ago. He's still around, probably upper 50's. his name is Pat Heller. He playing absolutely floored me, and is the main reason I'm trying to learn. JP

Bob Hayes · Post by **Bob Hayes** » 26 Aug 2005 9:08 pm

My first teacher...fresh off the Road with ET,preached proper blocking.....but made it clear that there is only ONE! so & so..But I Said"Buddy. What about Buddy?..almost 30 Years later I got to "Jam" with my old teacher....and there still were only 2 Buddy,&Buddy. But I also met Paul, Tommy,Doug,Randy,Herby,John,Hal,Mike,Cory,Boo,Mike,Mike,Russ,John,and just so many great pickers....and I have reverted to a near beginner. The only way to get a "Hot Lick" out of me is to light a fire under my Butt. The battle with the physical problems just seem to prevent me from re reaching my potential. The saying " Practice Makes Perfect" doesn't refere to me!.But I continue to persue(as in the Peter Principle) my leval of incompetence.
I am NOT an "Instrumentalist". I have always been a "Back Up Picker" . I don't need to shine..just try to do my best supporting a vocalist. But Most of the shows&jams around the country are presented as "Show Time" for the various pickers.
My idea of a Jam..and to show yourself is more in the mode of the Way That the MASGA(Mid Atlantic Steel Guitar Association's format)..Round Robin ..and individual sessions. But i still get to play now and then..ussually with a less than fantastic band..But I get to do it "MY WAY"
Grouchy

Bob Hayes · Post by **Bob Hayes** » 26 Aug 2005 9:31 pm

ADDed..Billy WOO, I rember the Surf Club.
I played there(Bass) with Danny Denver,Roy, and with Oscar shields..back in the early 70's.and then with sombody when I Retired from the AF and had a govment job....What talents they were. ..and could play anything. ....Memories.......What about the Senate Inn.Big Dipper/Tin Dipper,Villiage Barn,7 Corners,..etc,etc...
Grouchy Johnny "Pancake' Norris Rudy Gavileto,Clyde Bloodworth,Don West.There's some guys that "Pushed the Pedals"
Grouchy

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 27 Aug 2005 2:35 am

Donny,

I couldn't agree with you more. Some of the greatest Jazz players work as session guys in all three recording centers.

Paul

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 27 Aug 2005 2:58 am

[Ray Noren] would disguise his guitar to try to make it look like an electric piano or small organ, then he could set in with the jazz bands around town.

That's a riot. And a true sideman.
I would never have wanted to be anything else.
Stardom is not for everybody, and I think I see who Reece is talking about now, the many unsung heroes.

Where does Wally Moyers fit into this?
He's put out instructional tapes, and surely has played more than I'm aware of.

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 27 Aug 2005 4:36 am

I wonder what happened to Tom Bath? There was a steel guitarist in Phoenix, I believe his first name was Ivan. Both of these players were a treat to hear.

Paul

Tommy White · Post by **Tommy White** » 27 Aug 2005 5:12 am

Paul,
I know the Ivan in Phoenix you mentioned. He is Ivan Greathouse, whom I had the pleasure of meeting and hearing play at a place by the name of Mr. Lucky's, around 1976. I was on the road with Donna Fargo passing through at the time. Remember that gig? ha-ha. I have been in contact with Ivan a few times over the years and I believe he lurks around the forum without posting.I remember him playing the heck out of a ZB. Really seems like just yesterday.

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 27 Aug 2005 5:19 am

That would have been Ivan Greathouse (sp?) who was in the house band at Mr. Lucky's when I was in college in Arizona in the mid 70s. A truly unbeliveable player who, besides being brilliant technically, really had his own style.

Sometime shortly after he left Mr. Lucky's and I never heard about him again, I heard Danny Sneed for the first time in there. He was yet another player who completly changed my understanding of what could be played on a steel guitar. [This message was edited by Chris Bauer on 27 August 2005 at 06:21 AM.]

Wade Branch · Post by **Wade Branch** » 27 Aug 2005 5:58 am

I had this exact conversation with my steel playing buddy Dick Woods the other day.I think by now we all know who the "Top 20" steel players are,thru recordings or playing with big name artist or both.For me,the way I way look at it is,if a guy can play his butt off is one thing,but a guy that single handedly creates a style that most all players will emulate for years and years to come,well he's a pioneer and respectivly should be at the top.

We decided from the beginning in our young country hearted band ,that the only way to sell our "Hardcore Honky Tonk" perception was to make sure that we had a steel guitar somewhere deep and loud in our mix.I have a phone number list with 18 steel guitar players from the North Texas area on it that I have called and used.Out of the 18 players, I didnt find one player that didnt just blow me away some how.Now some had different approaches and different attacks on our songs but they all where good.There where a couple of players that as I would sing I could hear them in the back ground playing and I would be so amazed at there performance I sometimes would actually forget lyrics and I would think to myself "now here's a guy that is as a phenominal of a player as I ever heard but yet because he works a 9 to 5 job during the day and steels a night ,that will usually drop them so far below the radar that quite possibly they will never get considered for a really good opportunity at the bigger level"
I guess just being at the right place at the right time is usually how one player advances to a 200 shows a year in stadiums across America and the other cant find a saturday night gig in a VFW to save his life,but none the less ,they are both great players !!

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 27 Aug 2005 7:11 am

Paul, Tommy....Ivan Greathouse called me a few months ago and he was living and playing in Arizona at the time.

The first time I saw Ivan I couldn't believe what I was hearing. He was playing a double neck Fender pedal guitar with half the pedals missing and of course no knee levers, playing at the Rio Palm Isle club in Longview Texas.

He is an incredible player and certainly one who should be recognized as one of the greats in my opinion. I could be mistaken, but I believe he was an auto mechanic by trade. Hopefully someone somewhere has a recording of him they could share with us.

Who out there has heard of Dick Stubbs? I understand he was an exceptional player in the 50's and 60's.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 27 Aug 2005 10:59 am

Reece,

I wanted to send my compliments on "By Request Volume 2". I just ordered it from b0b and played it in my CD player on a road trip last week.

You're a great player with a firm grasp on many tones and styles. I really enjoy it.

Bill Simmons · Post by **Bill Simmons** » 27 Aug 2005 3:22 pm

Growing up in Winnipeg, Canada as a kid, my father and jazz ledgend Lenny Breau were very good friends. The bass player on Lenny's first couple of LP's (i.e. "Live at Manny's")was the great Ron Halldorson who still lives in Winnipeg. However, Ron's main instrument is the steel guitar and I have very old CBC radio show recordings of Ron's jazz shows on the steel. He also recorded some wonderful arrangements of pop instrumentals such as "Midnight at the Oasis" -- "Never My Love" and an original called "Hubbard's Cupboard" that was in honor of the great Jerry Reed's 'clawing style'of fast picking. He used a single 14 string steel and played with both feet and used a 'knee volume' for the Jerry Reed stuff.

Ron Halldorson is an incredible guitarist/bassist and super steel guitarist who's style would be very refreshing at the major steel shows...wish more people could hear the very innovative Ron Halldorson's steel guitar playing!

Miguel e Smith · Post by **Miguel e Smith** » 27 Aug 2005 5:56 pm

A few years ago I was in the back of the room for one of the Arizona jam thingys and someone said "hey, I want you to meet Ivan Greathouse". He was a sharply dressed and groomed gentleman and I felt kinda like a little kid again. When I was growing up in East Texas, Ivan was legendary and everyone who I looked up to had stories about him. When I asked how he played, there were always raised eyebrows followed by more stories.

I've yet to hear him play and considering where we were when I met him, I even found it funny that he was asking me if I knew someone with a steel for sale.

On another Arizona note...Danny Sneed is also one of those legendary figures. Sure, he does the necessary things for his regular gig, but he calls up every now and then and plays me some of the scariest and most remarkable stuff I've ever heard. Not sure if he'll ever share with the masses, but he's a very deep well.

Mike

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 27 Aug 2005 10:18 pm

I wonder what happened to Tom Bath?

I seem to remember reading that he passed away a few years ago.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 28 Aug 2005 1:17 am

It seems clear to me that the desire to be a star along with the competitive, testosterone-fueled perseverence needed to "reach the top", is or can be a very different set of drives than the perseverence, talent and above all patience (?) needed to achieve virtuosity on an instrument as complex as pedal steel. This could be a great blessing in disguise, as it seem that leaping into the fires of unrestrained genius can take a very high toll:
Charlie Parker - heroin
Miles Davis - heroin
John Coltrane - heroin
Hank Williams - alcohol and pills
George Jones - alcohol and pills
Johnny Cash - alcohol and pills
Eric Clapton - heroin and alcohol
Jimi Hendrix - heroin, alcohol and everything else possible
Duane Allman - everything else possible

This goes and has always gone way, way beyond the 7 -10% or so of the population known to have a predisposition to addiction - staring into the flames is dangerous. Mozart? Paganini? Those guys were lunatics. I couldn't hazard an intelligent guess as to the exact reason, but steel guitarists, and keyboardists, generally seem to be tracking on a slower, more methodical, safer path towards a different concept of excellence.

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 28 Aug 2005 3:10 am

Here's an instrumental by Canadian Ron
Hallderson called "Some Other Blues".
You will catch a little of an interview
at the beginning.
My thanks to Andy Sandovol for providing the link. http://members.cox.net/loveridehd/SomeOtherBlues.mp3

Herman Visser · Post by **Herman Visser** » 28 Aug 2005 8:01 am

Hi Roy < Thanks for that great post.
Great way to start my Sunday.
This is what is need here on the Forum.Steelers and Music that is not only country. Country is good but......
There has to be a better away to get a hold of other kinds of steel music then spending hours on the Net looking for it till my eyes fall out.More sound bites on the Forum would be nice, Like Roy just did
Thanks Roy
Greatfull in Calif Herman

Kiyoshi Osawa · Post by **Kiyoshi Osawa** » 28 Aug 2005 8:40 am

This subject has been popping up alot lately, so I would like to bring everyone's attention to the website started by Gary Shepard at:
http://www.16tracks.com/PedalSteelMusic/

which is dedicated to precisely archiving steel player's recordings, done at home and otherwise.

I have invited anyone who wants to share their steel tracks to do so on my podcast as well, and have been honored with music by Jim Phelps, Dave Van Allen, Robert Porri, and a few others who are lined up for future shows.

Regarding Jeff's point of view, Interestingly enough, I reached a similar conclusion last week after interviewing Johnny Farina for my podcast. I kept asking him questions about his playing, his picks, his amps, his strings, etc... bla bla bla. and he didn't seem to be interested in sharing that. I got the feeling he didn't really think of himself as a steel guitarist, as much as just a musician, or an entertainer. But he is still arguably the most famous person who plays the steel guitar in the world right?

We are all believers here, so it is very difficult for us to view things objectively. Why aren't people as obsessed with this instrument as I am? Don't they see how incredible and awesome it is? Unfortunately they don't. And most people aren't interested in hearing "amazing playing". That's why Pat Martino, Buddy Emmons, Brent Mason, Vanessa Mae, Jerry Donahue, (Insert favorite player here), aren't mega-pop stars, as Jeff mentioned.

But people like Johnny, and (suspend your disbelief for a second) Robert Randolph ARE recognized outside of this community. Because they don't sell themselves as players. They arent' trying to convert the world to steel guitar, but trying to bring everyone a good time through their music, which coincidentaly is played with a steel guitar.

Anyway, I'm not looking for a fight or anything. This is just MY opinion. In anycase, anybody who wants to share their music with other steel players can do so by submitting with Gary's site, or in my podcast as well. (wer'e up to roughly 60 listeners according to my webstats!)

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Williams Keyless U12

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 28 Aug 2005 3:28 pm

Roy,
Thanks for the link! What a great player. Shows me how little I know.

Russ

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 28 Aug 2005 4:01 pm

That instrumental of Ron Hallderson is from a tape sent to me several years ago by Bob Taillefer,PQ.
One observation I made was that Ron does not
play a lot of chords. It is my understanding
that his 14 string tuning was diatonic.
That may be the reason? It's been a while since I played the tape so it's time I
checked out a few more of the cuts on there.
Glad this man's wonderful playing brought
some enjoyment.

Roy

frank rogers · Post by **frank rogers** » 29 Aug 2005 5:20 am

Yes, I also received a copy of the Ron Halderson tape from Bob T. Ron is an amazing player.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 29 Aug 2005 6:23 am

Having done the vast majority of my pro playing on the west coast in the 60's, 70's, & 80's here's a few of the players who had a direct influence on me.

Carl West.....Carl was a very smooth player who was right on top of everything he played. Always in tune and could have made it in Nashville or anywhere else if he chose to but he stayed in SoCal....

Gene Fields.....Gene was a top player on both steel and lead guitar when I was coming up. He was always involved in the manufacturing end of things as well with Fender, MCI, Sierra, and now GFI. Sometimes people forget how well he plays! I remember one year at Scotty's when Gene played a set one of his student models with no pedals to boot! He really nailed it in my opinion!

J.G. (James) O'Rafferty.....One of my good friends from the old days! James was a top player who could play with anyone, anytime, on any type of tune and kill you with how good he was(is).... What made me jealous is he was also a great vocalist as well as a hot player. I got a couple of different things I do on my copedant from him like tuning my 9th string to C# instead of D. He did one of the best versions of "Steel Guitar Rag" I ever heard and he did it on C6th!

Jerry Stevens.....I first met Jerry years ago when he was playing with Danny Michaels and the Rebel Playboys. Jerry was one of the first players I knew who could get it all on one neck. I have one change on my S-12 that I got from hime and still use it to this day.

Bobby Boydd.....Another smooth player who got it all on one neck! Bobby used a form of D13th or D6th on which he could do the pop style chords or play a Ralph Mooney type cryin' country if he wanted. He did a stint with Hank Thompson and also Danny Michaels. He died from cancer way too young!

Art Sanchez.....Ol' Artie! I did a year at a club in Huntington Beach on lead guitar with Art on steel. Playing steel myself it was a wonderful experience as I set up next to him and I could just watch what he was doing firsthand. Art was one of JayDee Maness' first influences and maybe one of his teachers. Sometimes we'd do a bluegrass tune and Art'd do a fast cool ride and look up at me with that big grin and say "Hey Jerry, the spic can pick"... He died of a massive coronary about 17 or 18 years ago.

Blackie Taylor......A good player in his own right but also as important, a good friend to many players. Blackie played(plays) a S-12 tuned to A6th with all the proper changes and lowers it to E9th for the country stuff. I remember how I used to hang out at his music store a lot but never really got to hear him. I went out one night to a place called "Henry's Lariet" where he was playing with Carl Cody. As I walked to the door I heard Ralph Mooney (I thought) on a recording until I got inside and saw ol' Blackie and the band getting it on. He really could nail that sound with a Fender 400 converted to a 12 string. He would always give credit to a musician and help them get gear to work. I remember when a club I was working got broken into and all our gear was stolen. Blackie fixed me up with everything I needed to work and I eventually paid him (I think!)

Rex Endicott......Ol' Rex was always in tune. I think you could hold a tuning fork next to him and have him hit an A note and you wouldn't hear a beat at all. He built steels for a while and eventually moved to Oklahoma. I think he's deceased now.

A couple more such as Al Petty & Billy Mize but they're pretty well known....JH in Va.

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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Jimmy Douglas · Post by **Jimmy Douglas** » 29 Aug 2005 8:22 am

Sorry to take so long to get this Biograhical information about Jack Richards up but things have been very hectic at my end! I am still having some issues getting the sound file together and should have it up soon.

Australian Pedal Steel Guitar Pioneer

I would like to introduce to fellow forumites who may not know of Australian pedal steel guitar pioneer Jack Richards.

Historically Jack Richards was a photographer for a Sydney daily newspaper during the war but gave up this career to become a guitarist in a big band at "Princes" (the Sydney night spot where "you spent a month's wages" in one night). It was the plum job and Jack had it. In later years he was in ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) orchestras (whose output was on large transcription discs all conveniently destroyed). Before he played guitar he was into Hawaiian guitar but quickly realised that he couldn't make a living from this ... hence the guitar and arranging skills he learnt on the job at Princes and other places. He's a close friend of Australian Jazz Guitarist George Golla. In 1948 he and another engineering buddy did a production run of 100 pedal steels (the Kord King) for Nicholson's (the local Sydney big music store along with Palings). Jack played steel on Johnny Wade's last LP (Johnny was the Australian Hawaiian crooner ... as good as Bing ... as well the president of the Musicians' Union)

Jack approached his pedal steel tuning/copedant from a guitaristic approach ... an E6th that changed the 6ths to b7ths and the 3rds to minor 3rds with a couple of other "lesser" changes. Nothing more than a semitone movement anywhere. Self devised and (apart from the "Hawaiian" based open tuning ... but note the low 4th). In addition to this Jack used a 6 string non pedal bass neck on the back of his guitar tuned bottom to top D-E-G#-B-C#-E.

I hope you enjoy the recording of Australian pedal steel guitar pioneer Jack Richards which should be up over the weekend. These recordings were made by and provided to me by the tireless Sydney based Pedal/Non-Pedal and E Harp Steel guitarist and steel guitar promoter Graham Griffith from a show in the 1980s organized by Iron Florence who plays upright bass on some of the recordings. Graham also kindly wrote this short history of Jack's career which I have included above.

Jimmy

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 29 Aug 2005 9:19 am

I have two players "burned" into my memory...
1.) From Sacramento, CA; Jimmy Fox. A local player for years that everyone in town had extremely high regards for. I knew Jimmy in the early '70's. He played a D10 Emmons, and built his own amps.... astonishing player. As good as anyone you'll ever hear.... finally talked him into giving me a few lessons on one condition... I had to promise to pass it on when I got older, to younger players...good idea that! Thanks Jimmy.

2.) From Billings, MT, Harley Brindle. I was 23, and doing a sit-down gig in Billings with some other pickers from Sacramento and kept hearing this "Ghost Story" about an outrageous steel player who quit playing professionally as a promise to his dying wife. That was interesting enough. One Sunday afternoon everyone I knew in Billings called to let me know that Harley Brindle was currently sitting in at a local jam session. I pushed my '61 F40 as fast as it could go on the ice, and made it to the club while he was still playing. Amazing is all I can say. Here sat a thin white haired man playing an old (old in '73) Fender steel. Country, Jazz, it all was transformed into "Brindle"... never saw him again, but I consider myself lucky to have caught the last half of his perfromance that day in Billings.

BTW, I'm with Reece. Being a side man should bre where we aim.... who needs the headaches of being a front man (person).

Bob, in spite of being "more handsome and having a sexeier body" I have still been able to keep under the radar (:>)>=[

great topic

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com