The Steel Guitar Forum

Danny, Herb and Matt, it is very good to hear another side on this, now it 'sounds' different. Note in my earlier post I also said "sounds like', referencing the single side heard from.

Personality conflicts are always difficult, and also seem to be more prevalent in the artist sphere more than others.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 09 January 2005 at 02:17 AM.]</p></FONT>

Matt, You did state that there have been several steel players come and go. How about the other instruments, has there been a turnover on those instruments as well? As far as the ego thing it is totally unnecessary. There are many great musicians in this world, including steel guitar, who do not have the big ego problem. There is always two sides to every story so it would be nice if the other steel players would comment on this but I would bet they don't.

I hate it for Boo..and I hate it for the Bandleader(s) , all of them, everywhere.

In the early 80's I finally put our own group together which basically was a band which backed up for all praticle purposes, my wife who was well known in the clubs and sang a good Country tune and a good ballad . We had worked with many area musicians before we decided to "DO IT"..

As bandleader I found that eventually the musicians that were my friends for years pretty much turn into "We're here only for the money"..I had never thought of awkward personalities before putting the gig together but that came front and center.

As a player behind other bandleaders it was easy for me , show up on time, stay sober, play the tunes that the FRONT guy calls.
I didn't book gigs, I didn't communicate with club owners, I didn't call other musicians when one bagged out, I didn't prepare set lists, I didn't call tunes , I didn't worry when the gig wasn't going well..I didn't worry about the sound system...I didn't worry when other players showed up late or worse...when the other band members and I were having a chat at break time, they were not talking about me but were talking about ..guess who..

As bandleader, I joined a whole new club...

It's like going to work, but much worse, alone you can deal with all the issues that are presented, but when you are relying on 4 or 5 others it's a whole new can of worms..

Being the Bnad Leader and playing can really be in my opinion a conflict. It's hard to play your best when other things are on your mind about the gig...

Our band gigged for 4 years doing about 40 weekends/year..we sure got tired..so we finally merged with an old frined that we used to work with and I gave him all the Reigns..

I wish Boo the best as I have met him once and really enjoyed his talent...

Unless you've worn the shoes of the leader of the Band.... well you get the point...

t<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 09 January 2005 at 07:37 AM.]</p></FONT>

<SMALL>Unless you've worn the shoes of the leader of the Band.... well you get the point...</SMALL>

I wore those shoes at a couple of occasions, and know what you're talking about. I just find that it's very important not to be an a...... about it, and furthermore I never had difficulties with peoples personalities as long as they did their job.

I take it it's about playing music and putting up a good show, regardless of personalities and peoples viewpoints.

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Klaus Caprani on 09 January 2005 at 08:43 AM.]</p></FONT>

I held that job after Danny from April to June of last year.
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill C. Buntin on 09 January 2005 at 11:19 AM.]</p></FONT>

Paul, you asked if there has been a turnover of other instruments as well, and the answer is no, at least not since I joined the band. Rocky (drums) and I came together from another act in Mar '04. Chad was originally just the guitar player/second vocalist, and John (bass) is still here. The previous band leader was fired by Johnny. The key player before me left for a good day job and he's still friends with everyone. The fiddle player from that band left to play with Neal McCoy, and he's still friends with everyone too. We don't carry a full time fiddle anymore, but when Johnny wants one, we use a girl that's played with Johnny on and off for years before any of the rest of us came along.

I actually turned this gig down a couple of times before joining because of the schedule; and because I was happy in my gig at the time. Had the last offer not come at a time when Rocky and I were ready to move on, I might've turned it down again....I'm real glad I didn't. As you've no doubt been told....the Johnny Lee show is a trip!

I'd rather not comment past what I've already said because I'm not sure of the history. I do know Johnny was using several regional acts until just a few years ago when he started carrying a full-time band again.

As far as steel players, here's what I've seen with my own eyes: 2 guys that were hard to get along with (one of which only did 2 shows), an annoying drunk (3 shows), 2 guys that for whatever reason didn't play the parts consistently, and 2 guys that left for personal reasons. I'd like to add that I agreed with every one of the dismissals...but I hold no animosity toward any of them. They just weren't the right guys for this gig.....that happens in any line of work.

This will be my last word on the subject: I've spent my share of time in the regular business world at several different levels, and let me tell you that it's MUCH, MUCH harder to keep this going. Too many guys see it as a paid party, guys get bored, guys get homesick, guys get broke, guys get girls, guys lose girls, and some guys just never get happy....and don't like it if you are; (and by "guys", I mean anyone). Musicians (especially the really talented ones) are generally tempermental and opinionated. You get just 2 of those on one bus, and look out! More than 2......WOW!

So the moral of my story is: If you don't like your gig, for whatever reason, just move on. If your gig doesn't like you....just move on. It really doesn't have to be this big drama.....and this sort of band bashing never looks good for anyone...even if it's justified! Take my word for it...it's a lesson I learned first-hand.

Thanks again for listening - Matt

matt@mattharelik.com

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Matt Harelik on 09 January 2005 at 02:21 PM.]</p></FONT>

I talked to Chad yesterday and offered to post his side of the story,... again, there ARE two sides to this... if he'd send me an email. I would post it verbatim in quotes. He said that he'd prefer not to get involved any more, and just go on about his business.

He did say to me that in his opinion Boo Miller was one of the best steel players he's ever worked with, capable of playing with Alan Jackson, George Strait or anybody. But the personality thing was too much for him and the band, as Matt said.

Johnny Lee's stage setup is simply the way it is. There's a front line and a back line; the bass player, drummer, and steel player are on the back line, the vocalists (Matt, Johnny Lee, and Chad) are on the front line. If a player is unhappy with that stage setup, well then, it's simply not the gig for him.

About the "parts on the recordings," that's what the gig requires and that's what Chad plays. I played the parts Lloyd Green recorded, and I showed Boo how to play the solo on "Cherokee Fiddle." Whether or not a guy can jam on a jazz tune is not relevant to the issue at all.

I was a bandleader for about a year-18 months. It completely changes your attitude and the way you handle things. You are now responsible to club owners and audiences for the actions of your employees. If they screw up, YOU get to eat a mouthful of the clubowner's crap. If the drummer shows up late, YOU get fired and then you have to listen to his lame excuses about how he doesn't need to take the gig as seriously as you do. Many musicians are notoriously flakey, and it comes with being a prolonged adolescent that the music business seems to attract. If the gig doesn't pay a lot, you have a restricted pool of players to choose from. Being a bandleader burned me out when I had to be a hardass, because it was MY name out on the marquee, my reputation at stake. After that 18 months of band leadership, I quit playing altogether for about 9 months.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Tony P's remarks remind me of the old truism about second lieutenants: saluting everyone above, and returning salutes of everyone below.

Some years ago, I had one experience beyond that of a sideman, and that was enough. Life is far too short to earn money that way.

I have a jazz trio/quartet that works pretty often. If anyone isn't happy, I just stop calling them. This stuff doesn't pay well enough to not have fun on the gig... and there are too many people around here who want the job! Being a happy camper is requirement 1.

I played steel and sax with Johnny for about five or six months. I'm not sure what number I was, I think I may have been # 8 or 9, I sort of lost track but it really doesn't matter.

I have very fond memories of playing with The Urban Cowboy Band; Matt Harelik, Rocky Caron, John Laird, and Chad Phillips and of course Johnny Lee.

I felt I had made good friends with all of them and I still stay in touch with them from time to time. Unfortunately I had a conflict with my day job and couldn't make all the gigs.

As Herb stated in a previous reply "Johnny Lee's gig and set list doesn't have a whole lot of steel guitar solos" and it can get a little frustrating for a steel player. After a few gigs, I discovered that this just wasn't for me.

I grew up playing tenor sax playing rock an roll, R&B, motown, stage band,jazz and everything in between trying to make a living. Tenor sax is my main instrument and I was wanting to go back to my roots.

If Johnny ever decides to add a sax or a horn section to the band and if my day job doesn't conflict, I would be more than happy to work with them again.


Sam Edwards

I'll do that gig if no one else wants it...

Matt: I appreciate your comments.

Herb: I appreciate your comments.

To everyone involved. I can only speak for myself in that I know the main 2 reasons I was let go from Johnny's gig.

Reason 1: was my stage volume. Which I carry this problem to my grave because of hearing loss.

Reason 2: I am one of the 2 that Matt speaks of in that I didn't choose to play consistently enough with Johnny's "Hits".

Part of being a professional musician is partly talent, partly dedication, but most of all, being "willing" to play what the artist and band leader wants. Pure and simple, I did not play what they wanted. I could have chosen to have been super-serious about that or any other gig for that matter, and sit back and copy the session player. I choose, personally to NOT play that way and have been fired before for the same reasons from other bands.

As far my personal feelings about Chad Phillips. Chad is a strict band leader who stays in constant contact with Johnny. Chad is very adamant about what he wants. The time I was with them, was mostly good except for the few times I may have been unclear about what was expected of me. I recognize this as a personal fault of my own. I'm not saying I agreed with Chad's methods or leadership or his decisions. I'm saying that I respect the position of band leader. But I don't always do the job exactly the way they want. I can afford to be independent in the way I choose to play because I don't even supplement my income with music. So I can pick and choose who, what, where or when I play. If I were in the position of relying on Music specifically I would have done everything possible to do exactly what the artist and band leader wanted.

I have opinions about every human being I know. My personal opinions about those, I choose to not display on a public forum, for it would serve no real purpose.

To my friend Matt: You are the best man. Keep it up and stay in touch.

To my friend Rocky: Rock on dude. You are one of the best drummers in the business.

To my friend John Laird: Stay with em man. I think the world of you.

To Chad and Johnny: I wish you all the best. I enjoyed the time I worked with you guys.

Regards

Bill

As far as the steel parts on Johnny's show, the post about not alot of steel on Johnnys music, I played all the record parts but no matter what song, even if it had no steel on recording, Johnny most always would turn around and tell me to play a ride, which lets you just play off the top of your head. Very few songs went by that I didn't have a ride. Thats why Johnny was always my favorite artist to work for. ESnow

Well, look at the bright side. Maybe now you can make it to Chuck Campbell's Steel Show and Jam at the Vienna, Va. Moose Lodge on Feb. 5 and 6. Buddy C., JC, and all your friends will be there. Randy Beavers and Russ & Laney Hicks are coming up from Nashville. We miss you.

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1970 Emmons D10
Nashville 1000

Herb, your comment about being the Bandleader for 18 months..well..right on the button..amazingly on the button..

I recall when Bonnie and I would sit at the bar until sometimes 4 in the morning listening to this off the wall owners nonsense about life in general ..waiting to get paid...and then get some off the wall comment the following night from a lacky band mate who would give me Cxxx about soemthing totally irrelevant..He would say something like " I would never sit there until 4 AM , I would make him pay up"..of course he had no clue how to do that either..
It was all we culd to keep him sober long enough to actually pay us..which he did everytime. When we quit the gig he could care less..I imagine he just moved his misery on to some other poor soul...

As far as playing it like the records, I am in a band now that requires this..we do jam on several tunes but our primary set list is covers of top tunes..it's a great gig..it's amazing how much you can actually learn and the discipline required to Play it like the record..

Someone tell George and Alan I'm ready......well ....for a few tunes anyway..

I'm clearly in the second line..and it's not a bad place to be either...I kinda like it..

t<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 10 January 2005 at 01:03 PM.]</p></FONT>

I will second what Eddie said. Many times Johnny would turn to me and throw one my way, totally unexpected. Some of the other guys may not have liked it when he did stuff like that, off the cuff, but for me, the unexpected is always fun in that it breaks up the same ole routine and keeps you on your toes. A lot of times he would have me or others continue playing something a second time.

I played the signature licks where necessary, but I did have the room to improvise on other things. That was the fun part of the gig. We never had setlists, so other than the opening and closing numbers, you never knew, nor did you know how long the show would last. Many times a contracted 70 min. show went 3+ hours!!! No break...no kidding.

I have to laugh in that sometimes he would pull out a song we never worked up. Remember, he was a 7 night a week house band before he was "discovered" so his repertoire is huge. One time John Laird & I were jamming on Night Life during sound check. The drummer jumped in and shortly after that Johnny walked in and smiled a bit (yeah, that was a time he was there at soundcheck). Next thing you know, in the middle of the show, he turns to me and says "Do Night Life". We took off on it and he nailed the vocal. Every now and then he would pull out a shuffle. That was a blast. The doo-wop stuff is another story

The gig was anything but routine. The players were great and we had a lot of fun. Highly recommeded!!!!!

To Everyone!!!!
Thanks for All Of Your Posts. If Anything You Enlightened Some Guys On A Growing Problem Within The Music business Im Sure Its Been Around for Yrs But I have only come to see It In the Last few yrs I have been Playing. I mean their Is always someone you have a run in with On the road i mean cramped up on a bus that isnt safe with A rookie driver (NO offence Matt) Isnt fun I kinda wanna Live to play the next gig .. Granted I could have Quit But Hell I was Hving fun With The Music. I have Not A Problem With "JOHNNY LEE" Or His Band Show Or Music I feel That I deserved a call From Chad "THE BAND LEADER " To Be Termenated And I have Yet To recive A call From Him .. I have Had Plenty Of e-mails Or At Least One Long One Bashing My Lifestyle ,and my Nashville days that I Chatted With Him About In the (Much Safer)Rv.. He He Told Me Stories Of Other fired Steel Players And Goings On In the Band At That time As well ... Chad Is an Excellent Guitar Player for the Most Part.... I stated He couldnt Improvise In A post Earlier And I still Stand On that But I must Say His Tone Was Good And He did Play The Parts to the letter .. but So did I!!
I Can Say I was NEVER LAte On Stage or for sound check ,Never too Intoxicated to Do My Job , Never too Loud, And Always Was very Curtious to the other band members. Yes I can Say I do Speak My Mind When I think Something isnt right for the most part Its Just My opinion ... Herb You Are Correct Chad Does Need to Speak His Mind Through this forum .. Im sure He has read this Thread And Has Much To Say In His Defense!! I have Nothing to Hide I talked to johnny on the phone 3 times in an hour the other day( He Was cooking pancakes for his Son) He told Me he had talked to chad the day before but told chad to handle it the best way he could HE WAS THE BAND LEADER ... Johnny Did say He would Call Chad And Talk To Him And I told Him That Wasnt Necessary ... As For Us steel Players Being Primadonnas Yes Sir Im Sure We Are And I dont Know If I qualify But.......Herb I Thank You For recognizing Me as A Peer In your Caliber I have plenty To Learn And I thank You For the Tab On The Ending Of Cherokee Fiddle It Was Perfect.. I did get to Play Plenty On Johnnys Show I wasnt Ever Denied a ride If I wanted It .. Like I said It Was Chad And His Off Stage Comments and actions He threw my way after Lisa Layne Started singing .. Im Sorry But I think He found that to Be a threat.. Not To Mention Him attacking Her About singing harmony in An E-mail To Me .. she was just having fun .. Johnny And Early On Chad Him self Invited Lisa To Come Sing.. With Pay!! He will Insist That I Was forcing Her On The Band But In Fact I used Those Guys To Play Other Gigs With Lisa And Paid Them $250.00 For One Night Of About 3+ Hours.. Hell Matt didnt even set Up his rig. I Payed for Bus Fuel And Rental On The Bus.. See I thought Musicians Looked Out For One Another (OLD SCHOOL)But I guess Not .. Any Way Sam Edwards States That He Is A friend And Im Sure You are Sam.. By The way folks Sam Is an Awsome Horn Player and set in with us in Lawton Ok .. I Have Never Heard Him Play Steel.. Sam If You Will E-mail Me I will Fill You In On Some Dirt.. If you choose not to Ok Too .. Bob Hempker I Know you understand and i appreciate your post written like a pro Pat Dawson I Miss You Guys Too And Dont Put It Past Me to Be there... Im not promising but you never know... Wade Call Me Thanks..
I Hope This Mess Is All Finished
Cant We All Just Get Along ..
If anyone Wants this gig E-mail And I will Get You To The "BAND LEADER"
BOO

Well, I have spoken with Chad, and I will be taking over as Johnny's new steel player. I think it will be a great gig. I've known Chad for a few years now. I used to go see him when he had his own band around Dallas. He did a great job fronting his own band, and has always been very nice to me.

Boo, if you or anyone else is interested, I will be leaving the house band at Cowboy's Red River in Dallas. It's a good steady gig, but it is also very demanding, (not to mention LOUD) and will not be for everyone. If anyone wants a shot at that gig, send me an e-mail, and I'll get you in touch with our band leader, Curtis Randall.

<SMALL>there is always someone you have a run in with On the road, I mean cramped up on a bus</SMALL>

How true.......While on the road I once got crossways with a guitar player because he always covered his eggs with ketchup every morning while I was still trying to get the courage to drink a cup of coffee!

www.genejones.com

Sorry for what I'm about to say fellas, I usually berate others for acting this way, but I've reached my limit. As anyone who knows me will tell you, I have a temper...and you're about to see it. I'm only doing this here, instead of in private because, once again, you're not getting the whole story. And when public jabs make ME (or the project with which I'm affiliated) look incompetant, I can't sit still for it.

PART ONE: Boo, What the hell do you know about my bus anyway? You've only been on it a handful of times. Yeah it's old, yeah it needs some work, but when did it ever NOT get us to the gig safely? The only time you ever stuck your head under there was when "I" had you look at the u-joint that "I" discovered was bad. Apparently, you have forgotten that I was the one who solved every single problem we've had...including the time YOU accidentally hit the emergency shutoff switch. Old buses breakdown somtimes...hell, new buses breakdown. And it's not going to be in the parking garage when it happens!

And what the f*** with calling me a rookie driver? You don't even know anything about me! I've driven plenty! It's your opinion (which is fine except when it's expressed in an insulting manner...just saying "no offense" doesn't mean offense won't be taken) because you don't happen to like my driving, and because you have a CDL and I don't. This, folks, was MY problem with Boo.

Fact is, I've driven other buses, I've driven giant RV's, I've driven pulling huge, way-too-heavy trailers, I've driven in Ice and snow and rain and wind! I've had one accident in my whole life, and that was because I hit a pot-hole full of water on a very slick road during a downpore. I wasn't speeding (quite the opposite), and nothing was damaged in any way except for the side of my pickup with which I was pulling the trailer.

I've never failed to get myself and the equipment safely to the gig. The only thing you know about my driving is that I still grind the gears, and that one time I drove over a curb and punctured a tire on a piece of rebar that I didn't see sticking out of the concrete. Well, it takes me a while to get used to driving something different....and I think I'm much better than I used to be....and getting smoother all the time. I never liked the way you made the clutch slip because you gassed it too hard on the shift. Yes the clutch is almost gone, and I'll replace it as soon as I can afford it, but it doesn't slip if you let it engage fully before you gas it. This bus is old, and hasn't been driven much in the last few years, and needs to be treated gently, not beaten into submission. So there...I never liked your driving much either.

I've had my head in every nook and cranny of that bus, touched every mechanical part, inspected every inch of wire (that's no S***! I had serious electrical problems the first time I drove it, and made a thorough inspection upon repair). I may not have that much experience with this particluar vehicle, but I'm pretty good with mechanical things, and I've been tinkering with cars and trucks my whole life! You think I want to be left out on the road? Hell no....if it breaks down, guess who gets to pay for it? ME and only ME! I've been trying to repair things as they come up, and as I can afford it. If I thought for a second that the old girl was dangerous, it wouldn't leave the parking lot! By the way did you know Rocky used to be a truck driver? I think he mentioned it, but you wouldn't know because you didn't trust ANYONE else behind the wheel. You only let me drive because it's my bus. Believe me, I know what I'm doing.....just because you don't think so, doesn't make it fact!

How the band gets to the gig is our own responsibility, that's the deal made with Johnny before I ever came into the mix, and I happen to be the one providing the transportation because I have the means to do so. That doesn't mean I'm rolling in dough, if fact right now I'm pretty much losing my ass on it. I'm hoping eventually that will turn in my favor. In the meantime, it's way better than anything else we have access to. I refuse to use my RV (new in Sept '03) anymore because it has 57k miles on it now, and it's already worth about $10,000 less than I owe if I never drive it another inch! (REALLY need to sell it BTW.) I've been doing my best to make our travels better, and it would have been nice if you hadn't been bitching about it the whole time.

PART TWO: I think Lisa Layne is a fabulous singer and entertainer, but I for one was never asked if she could join the band....I would have said no. I took this gig because I wanted to play Johnny Lee music. If I thought there was extra money in the budget, I would have voted it go to me for fuel that I still have not been reimbursed for. I'm not griping about the fuel expenses, we're still operating under the agreement that I orignally made with Johnny.....but that agreement DID NOT include another band member. The way I understood it, Lisa was asked to sell merch, and sing a "couple" of songs during the Christmas season, mostly because Johnny likes her hit Christmas song. I discussed with Johnny, in Vegas, that I was against her becoming a member of the band.

Girls: PLEASE, PLEASE don't take offense to this! I played and traveled with Shawna Russell for 3 years, and really enjoyed it. IT'S NOT PERSONAL!!! Lisa is a true talent, and a nice person. But I DON'T like traveling with "couples". It's never worked out good for me.

PART THREE: Boo Miller is a GREAT steel player, truly one of the best live players I've ever heard. Great tone, Great chops, Amazing speed, and very pleasing note selection. These are not empty compliments to make myself seem more congenial.....I'll probably never be half the natural musician Boo is.....but then, I doubt I ever landed a gig because of my amazing technical prowess (wink!). But in all honesty, I did not enjoy my time with him in our band. The stress level was way too much for me personally. The kind of thing that makes you think about selling all your s*** and getting out of the business. I think if Boo was the boss it would be fine, and he'd probably be a really efficient bandleader, but it's my opinion that he's a control freak.

In closing, I apologize for using this public forum to vent my anger.....but I DON'T apologize for any of my opinions. I will try my best, however, to refrain from any more of this type of behavior.

If what I've said here makes you angry....don't bother attacking me.....just don't call me for a gig. Our personalities will probably clash.

Matt Harelik
matt@mattharelik.com

*I came back to add this after I re-read my post:

I'm usually the most passive mf on the planet, but this touched a nerve. I can't abide bad press when it's inaccurate. I probably made it worse, but all I was really trying to do was put what I consider to be the facts out there. You'll make your own assumptions....I know.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Matt Harelik on 11 January 2005 at 11:04 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Matt Harelik on 11 January 2005 at 11:27 AM.]</p></FONT>

Uh-Oh.....

Thanks Matt for telling us your side of this story. Sometimes people just cannot work together and this appears to be the case here. I have had a couple of times in life where me and another worker had conflicts but it usually worked out without causing any problems for anyone else. I do appreciate you complimenting Boo on his musical abilities even if there were problems. This probably happens mor than we realize. Best wishes to both of you guys.

Go to Oprah!

JUDGE JUDY Will hear your case!!!!

Don'tcha just love being a musician....