The Steel Guitar Forum

"Who among you will take up the task?"

I would submit, in a heart beat, a nomination for Reece and Julian if I believed it would ever see the light of day. The board can always nominate from within itself.

Bob,

Since you weren't around, I'll try to fill you in on the impact of Julian and Reece. When Scotty and Tom were unknown folks with dreams of starting steel guitar oriented buisinesses, Julian, Reece, Jernigan, Emmons, Newman, and Chalker all gave their time, support, and shared their expertise to their earliest individual endeavors. Their combined, established musical credibility, playing dinky shows for little money, allowed Tom and Scotty the vehicle to gather a reputation, along with mailing lists to sell various ideas to the growing crowds these gentlemen attracted. Both Tom and Scotty had brilliant visions of the future and I salute their contributions, but without the help and credibility of those accepted giants in the music world, listed above, one can only speculate, whether or not, either could have realised that dream.

I'll wager that Anderson and Julian probably played more of the earliest steel shows than anyone else. Why should anyone have to remind them how much Julian's and Reece's musicality had an impact on the birth of the steel show and especially on two of its board members personal buisinesses. Add to that how orginal, explorative, and the fact that they both fathered the universal tunings, played on numerous sessions, inspired players, built guitars, taught and promoted the steel as upfront as anyone in steel history has and then maybe you can understand why this BS of submitting a nomination to those who owe Julian and Reece this debt of gratitude "The SGHOF Award" is so upsetting to me and many others that do remember the earliest days of steel shows, tablature, and mail order buisinesses and the way Reece and Julian promoted for them.


Paul


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Franklin on 03 November 2004 at 02:14 PM.]</p></FONT>

Finally, a "pro player", steel guitar giant, and member of the SGHOF speaks out. Paul Franklin has just opened up Pandora's Box and said what many of us have thought and talked about for years.

Everyone who was in the Steel Guitar World during the infancy of these steel shows are more than aware of the player contributions of such as Julian, Reece, Curley, Seymour, Joaquin, and too many others to mention. Without their interest and participation, there probably would be no SGHOF, large Steel Guitar events, etc. Just a thought, but one certainly has to admit their contributions were tremendous.

Just to set the record straight, there has been more than one 'FORMAL NOMINATION' letter submitted on both Julian and Reece, and there are lots of folks that know that.

And Tom I think that if everyone knew of your email to Richard Gonzales in years past, relative to the Julian Tharpe induction, that knowledge would probably heat this situation past the combustion point.

I don't think releasing that communication in public, however, would ever facilitate Julian's induction into the Hall. And after all that's what most of the Steel Player's intentions are. I also would hesitate in release of that document publicly because of the effect it might have on the Tharpe family. It does exist though and you know it.

Nuff said from this old man, but somehow past experience leads me to believe that this will not render a "fair" ending to this situation, but after all, "fair" (according to my old man) is just a "3rd grade word" where some things are concerned.

fred

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The spirit be with you!
If it aint got a steel, it aint real

Thank You Paul for your insight and knowledge of the real story. I thought it was something like that and now we hear it from a respected person like you!

Franklin-that is one of the most noble things I have ever read on this forum.

Coming from a person/player of your esteem and directed towards players that you know and respect and dealing with the heart and soul of the matter that you know first hand of in such a direct manner is very encouraging.

I'm with Chris Forbes---What did Julian do to get everybody so torqued up???

Yes indeed Paul. Both, Julian and Reece not only made history in the steel guitar world, but they also changed it in many admirable ways to help it become what it is today. They were a huge influence not only to players of the instrument, but also to the steel guitar manufacturers, and at least one major amplification giant in this industry. Indeed, the stories I could tell...

I don't really think there's any question of whether these guys should and/or deserve to be inducted into the H.O.F. that's pretty much a given. My question here would be, do they even care or want to be nominated? Julian can't answer that of course, but Reese and others???

The Steel Guitar Hall of Fame award is without question, one of the highest awards a fellow steel player could hope to achieve, and albeit honorable, I believe it's true value would lie within the heart of its recipient. If such an award requires pages of petitions, or brow beating a board of appointed officials to get it, what then would its true worth and value really be?

To most of us, we would be proud to see these great men receive this award, and perhaps even feel some sort of satisfaction that we may have helped them get it? But I can't help but wander if the recipient would share our feelings of this accomplishment, if in fact they felt they got it by "force" rather than by a genuine extended hand of congratulations.

Jeff Newman was a friend of mine for over 40 years. I remember that when I tried to buy his very first instructional course, he sent my check back, but sent his course too. Thereafter, he and I collaborated on many projects. I promoted his seminars and had him as a co-headliner along with Buddy Emmons at concerts I sponsored. He allowed me to sell his products, while refusing such re-sale arrangements with many other vendors. His home was always available to me when I was in Nashville. He visited me and would have stayed at my house had it not been for the fact that my kids took up the bedrooms. Jeff was a mentor to many. I never took one of his classes, but he became a mentor to me in more important ways than teaching me how to play steel. When he and I became two of the charter members of the Steel Guitar Convention Board 26 years ago, he said something that was the best advice I ever received in my role as a Board member. In the very first meeting he said, "I'll never honor anyone who dishonors their fellow steel guitarists by victimizing them." I chose at that moment to live by Jeff's conviction and make it my own. For those who challenge me on this, you will not bend my will. Jeff's will was never bent. I'll follow his lead and be proud of it.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tom Bradshaw on 04 November 2004 at 05:24 AM.]</p></FONT>

Tom,
Being a fan of every steel player you have mentioned, I'm curious to know by your comment on victimizing, are you refering to Julian?
Thanks in advance for your reply.
My best,
TW

I think that pretty much sums it up. Especially for those of you that bring this subject up all the time.Tell it like it is Mr.Bradshaw,sometimes the truth need's to be told.

I wasn't going to mention this, but this is starting to stretch out a bit.

I have written a historical piece on someone who I'd like to see in the HOF. I was asked by another Forumite, and I jumped at the chance knowing that it would be a challenge, and that it was someone I'd love to see in the HOF.
The write-up was to put this player in a historical context, from their commercial peaks, their obscure treasures and their influence on the popular culture image of the steel guitar.

I personally did not get the nomination up and running, and although I'd like to leave them out of this for privacy, the person that did is part of this Forum and not a Board member.

I worked my butt off and I really appreciate the guy asking me to do it. He really drove this thing and for that I'm thankful.
However my the individual we helped nominate might not get in. And if he doesn't, I won't be here bitching about it and running down the reputation of other people.

I see references like "Scottys' Steel Guitar Hall of Fame," "this Scotty fellow has total control," "a breath of fresh air into a stagnant situation," "jump through the hoops," "this infamous board," "their outright arrogance in some of these matters," and "a bunch of average players making judgements on the brilliant ones," and I don't see anything constructive at all.

Re-nominate him if he's already had one, and this time do it better than the last good soul, you know each year there's nominations and people put forward real good cases.

I personally don't think Julian deserves to be in there before some others, but that's just because I think others have a more important historical context. It doesn't mean they'll get voted in that order.

Oh, and Bill Hatcher. Thanks for the search offer, but I know who Julian Tharpe is mate, and I read all the topics about him anyway.
Nothing negative or postive intended about his character, I know of his role and career to some degree, probably more than some others who posted here, while less than others who also commented.

While I have no dog in this hunt, I see nowhere on the HOF nominating form that says anything about the character of the nominee and the HOF requirements are clearly written. Regardless of whether you are simply a steel player, a HOF nominee, or on the board judging nominees, who amoung us hasn't made mistakes or done something that we are not proud of? Let us not throw stones as all of our houses have some glass. Am I wrong here Tom?<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jim Palenscar on 04 November 2004 at 08:30 AM.]</p></FONT>

-Moses killed a man but his writings were not disabandoned.....he was forgiven
-David committed adultery and murder but still used of God....he was forgiven
-Paul consented to the death a Christian, yet wrote 14 books of the New Testament............he was forgiven

If Reece and Julian have wronged someone and apologized, they should be in the HOF.
If they never did wrong, they should be in the HOF.

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www.authenticrecording.com

Jim P, ..is there a "Vet's with an animal dander allergy" HOF?, ..I nominate you.

I hope that everyone is aware that ALL institutions are flawed, and tend to feed upon themselves, ..mostly because they are made up of people like us.

Educational, religious, political, scientific, musical, and other groups have people in them that do not like each other for some reason(s).

My physicist hero, Dr. Richard Feynman, turned down a seat on an "august body" for which others worked hard to try and be nominated. His reason was that the members of the august body spent most of it's time worrying about who was worthy to be in their presence and little time advancing it's art.

Pete Rose and the Baseball HOF comes to mind as a similarity to the SGHOF issue re certain people's qualifications and nominating commitee's biases. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" also comes to mind.

Hank Williams, Bob Wills, were kept off the Grand Ol' Opry because of the "druthers" of those in charge, ..nothing new under the sun.

Some of those in the SGHOF don't appeal to me as much as some that to my knowledge have never been nominated/considered. Some "great" pickers don't/didn't contribute much more than great picking, and some who are/were/could have been great pickers decided not to follow the road that lead to public attention and HOF's; same for teachers and builders.

There is not much except Performance, Personality, and Behavior, ..unless you want to include Appearance on which to decide a person's qualifications for consideration; how much weight should be put on each of these?

If perfection is the goal, then it would be a very empty HOF, and if perfection is/were required of the Board members, there would be noone to nominate or pass on any potential candidates.

I have my own SGHOF, ..it is in my head, and the two folk in question are installed therein for their contribution to the SG world, with no consideration of what else they did or did not do.

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<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by ed packard on 04 November 2004 at 12:47 PM.]</p></FONT>

<BLOCKQUOTE>"I'll never honor anyone who dishonors their fellow steel guitarists by victimizing them."
-- Jeff Newman</BLOCKQUOTE>

i continue to be amazed at the un-wavering conviction of those who think musicianship alone (or, in pete rose's case, baseball) justifies being honored with a place in a hall of fame.

sure, 'hall of fame' can be construed to mean 'here's where we keep the famous people'... or, it can mean "here are the exceptional standouts, whose grace, style, and integrity matched their contributions to the instrument and community".

i bet most of the 'tharpe/reece/whoever' conspiracy claimers aren't even familiar with most of the people who ARE in the SGHOF... nor do they know the reasons those folks were so honored.

fame isn't enough.

'nice' isn't enough.

the complete package is required... and the hof board is comprised of people WHO WERE THERE and KNEW THE FOLKS IN QUESTION PERSONALLY... they know FIRST HAND who did what to whom, and are BEST QUALIFIED to assess those nominated for the HOF... emotionally based and historically challenged dissenting opinions to the contrary.

bruce
aka smike

Ed Packard, I think you might find that your example, eg: "Hank Williams, Bob Wills, were kept off the Grand Ol' Opry," have next to no bearing here.

The Opry was a gig, a paying job (a poor one, but paid all the same) and as such they had the right and sense to hire and fire who they thought was up to the job.
The Hankster was a hopeless drunk by the time he got the boot, and Bob Wills was too good for the Opry anyway.

But let's make it simple. The Opry was a job, all you had to do was show up and perform and be respectable. Some people couldn't manage that, they got canned.

The HOF, a place of recognition, history and significance where someone involved in the industry and of note can get nominated for a place in the HOF. It's not a job, and unlike the Opry it can be posthumous.

Tom Bradshaw actually made a new topic where he shows you belly-achers and whiners how to start up a decent nomination.

One high profile job I had in the military (in charge of a passenger terminal), always on occasion drew criticism and I would get a phone call from a certain colonel at Wing Headquarters and he would chew me out unmercifully etc. Then after he finished, I would tell him what really happened and then there was the profound apology (hey, let's go have a beer Sarge). So I've learned to get both sides of the story before I make a judgement from the actual source whenever possible. It seems to me that often when someone is accused of whatever, there can be a stain that is hard to diminish, even when later proven innocent.

Jason.

That drunk fellow that you make reference to that could not keep his "paying job" as you call the Grand Old Opry----he was inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame the first year it began. I guess the Board Members of the CMHOF need to go and get some of the members of the SGHOF to straighten all that out.

Hank in the CMHOF is a perfect example of a man recognized for his talent and his contribution and not discriminated against for his personal problems of which he had many.

The Grand Old Opry is a long way from you. Maybe you don't really understand what prestige it held at one time for artists. I can tell you that artists did not work that job for "pay" as you call it. The pay was probably only scale as was required per broadcast/union type regulations. It might even be like that now. For you to demean the Grand Old Opry into just a gig is pretty ludicrous.

<BLOCKQUOTE>Well Smike,Smirk or schmuck.</BLOCKQUOTE>

james -

your antipathy towards bradshaw, the hof, and my posts not-withstanding, my name is bruce... and name-calling is disrespectful, against forum policies, and indicative of a weak argument.

bruce
aka smike<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by smike on 05 November 2004 at 07:10 AM.]</p></FONT>

Jason; The point of the names/people used in my previous post was apparently understood by others and they have responded. It was not mentioned that Bob Wills is in the Western Swing Society HOF. The point re he and the Opry is that DRUMS were considered as good a reason as being drunk to keep someone out/off. Everyone has their own set of rules to "judge" by and welcome to them.

If we take apart and reveal the lives of many that are installed in the SGHOF there would be much for the saint worshipers to carp about; same goes for my life, and maybe yours, and possibly/probably some of those that decide who goes into whichever HOF.

We might start down the list of the famous classical musicians/composers and find that applying moralistic judgements would get many/most of them rejected from any HOF; their music speaks for their talent, not their behavior.

Again, institutions and organizations can set any standards by which to judge membership in any of it's branches and the verbage of said rules will be interpreted by the individuals on the judging commitees according to their preferred point of view. The SGHOF is no different, ..just people.

Your last line is interesting, ..it appears that you have decided, by some mysterious criterion, which side of the issue I am on, and have applied what you deem as appropriate labels. A bit presumptious on your part as I am on neither side; as I said, I have my own HOF for Steel players/designers/makers.

Nice fencing words with you mate, have a nice day.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by ed packard on 05 November 2004 at 07:10 AM.]</p></FONT>

<BLOCKQUOTE>Bill Hatcher says:OK Tom. You accused me of being dishonest in an email to me and I take GREAT offense in you doing so.... Since you refused to answer the last email I sent you and in essence declared that you would not discuss this issue with me anymore then I will state my case here and let the chips fall where they may.</BLOCKQUOTE>

bill -

nothing good comes from taking things said in private emails (or snail mails) public... you're posting another person's words without their permission, and airing your dirty laundry for the world to see... and discuss.

you make it sound like tom OWES you an on-going discussion of your issues... and then forced the issue by posting publicly.

since you opened the pandora's box, let's review.

you said tom called you dishonest. without re-posting his post in its entirety, it's hard to tell just what was said. you took 'GREAT' offense... so what? are you really saying "mommy, he called me a liar... make him stop!!!"? what do you care what ANYBODY calls you? or that they won't respond to you after you have a falling out without them?

if the forum weren't here, you wouldn't have been able to do anything about it... lucky us.

i read bradshaw's post correcting your mis-statements... and thought he went point by point, and those points had a lot more weight than your suppositions and theories...

did you ever share a hotel room with julian? go drinking with him? sit around playing with him? know his friends, his peers, his business dealings? bradshaw did, and i think you might want to go with less ego, and more respect for the guy who wrote the steel guitar column in guitar player magazine, published steel guitar magazine, has sat on the hall of fame board for decades, and knows of what he speaks.

you are welcome to your opinions, and bradshaw is welcome to his... the difference between you, though, is that he kept his private... at least until you opened the door (i.e., pandora's box)... just like maurice did about his own hof problem.

the lesson is clearly that nothing good comes from airing private issues publicly.

bruce

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by smike on 05 November 2004 at 07:13 AM.]</p></FONT>

smike. You digress from the issue.

Should a player be kept out of the SGHOF solely because of his indescretions. That is what this is all about, not whether or not Tom accused me of dishonesty.

Having an opinion and expressing it has nothing to do with being dishonest. I based my opinions on information I received and after I made the opening post inviting a discussion of the issue then I get this email from Tom accusing me of being dishonest and some other goofy word when I emailed him back with the quotes that formed the basis of my initial post. Before I made this post, everything was just fine with him.

I don't have to have a close relationship with ANY HOF member or candidate. Once again---listen closely---

THE ISSUE IS WHETHER OR NOT THE MEMBERS OF THE HOF BOARD SHOULD DENY MEMBERSHIP TO A CANDIDATE WHO QUALIFIES MUSICALLY BUT DOES NOT MEET "THEIR" PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS IN REGARDS TO THE CANDIDATES PERSONAL LIFE CHOICES.

The fact the Tom Bradshaw wrote articles and is a member of the HOF board means nothing to me. The selection issue is what means something and you can see by the interest here that it means something to a lot of folks. Every year this comes up and a few things get said and then everybody forgets about it because no one really knows the REAL reason behind why this man, or ANY other deserving candidate is not in the HOF.

You can say whatever you want to about me, I don't give a crap. You say in your post that someone making a remark about your "smike" name is disrespectful but then you use a snide comment of "mommy,liar" towards me and that is just fine with you right?? You get to have it BOTH ways right?

Stick with the issue, snide comments are indicative of a weak argument.