1/2 pay for steel players

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 19 Feb 2004 9:13 am

They should pay you for your time, not by the note. If I came in and played for half of a studio session, I'd expect half of what others got. But for a live gig, you're spending the time for travel and setup, and you're sitting there through the whole show, when you could be doing something else, like working a gig that pays full pay.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 19 Feb 2004 11:02 am

"Has anyone ran into bands that only wanted to pay their steel players 1/2 pay?"

My general response to this type of "bogus-band-leader" rhetoric, is... Tell ya what, I'll arm-wrastle ya for the whole nights pay.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 19 Feb 2004 12:32 pm

How 'bout 1/2 pay for the vocalist who doesn't play an instrument? I think that's fair........JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 19 Feb 2004 1:30 pm

That Louisville local tried putting it to me too when Herby Hale was the president in the 70's. I don't know who the pres is up there now but it was John Roy when I left in 82 and a great guy and a great drummer too. Anymore I'm like Eric. I ain't playing for no less than a measely $50 and if I'm called for a studio gig I've got a minimum per song and no less than three songs. I ain't jamming and no benefits unless I know the guy or gal it's for. Them freebees will get the phone ringing but that ain't the way to play the game.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 19 Feb 2004 1:39 pm

Had a guy call me once and offer me 1/2 pay. I told him that I had thought he was a friend, and that I was surprised that he would call to insult me. I told him that if that was all he thought of me, to never call me again.
JB

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 19 Feb 2004 8:52 pm

I play for free more often than I play for money, but that's by choice. I wouldn't play in a commercial band for half of what the other band members are getting. It that's what they think of the steel (or of me), then I'm not even half interested in playing with them.

Life's too short.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 19 Feb 2004 9:04 pm

I would have flipped him for the half!

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 19 Feb 2004 9:05 pm

Whoops,I ment the other half.

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 19 Feb 2004 11:25 pm

You can always do what I did 2 years ago. START YOUR OWN BAND! With my band "Country Junction" heres the way I operate with my crew:

*I'm the Boss, *I book the Gigs,
*I call the shots, *I own the PA System
& Equipment Trailer, *I make the set lists,
*I tell the band members what I'll pay them to play a job (And the Steel Player "YOURS TRULY" sure don't get short changed)
*Also, I make it clear when they come to work for me that this is the way we operate.

I used to play for other people in other bands but my way takes care of the little problem you mentioned very quickly. You really ought to try it sometime.

Happy Motoring, Nick [This message was edited by Nick Reed on 19 February 2004 at 11:27 PM.]

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 25 Feb 2004 8:08 am

I wonder what you guys would think of what goes on here in New York. More often than not, I play for very little or next to no money, but I have a day job, so this is not the end of the world. I could be more of a tough guy and say "$50 or I ain't doin't it" but I do think my playing opportunities would drop by more than half. A lot of the guys I play for, just don't have that kind of money, and to make matters worse, we have clubs in New York like Pianos on Stanton Street that, get this, pay the SOUNDMAN and the DOORMAN out of the take at the door, so on a weekday night, the bread is sure to be light.

Am I really diminishing other musicians by playing for little or no money? I think not, because it's not like I'm taking paying gigs from Bob Hoffnar, Jon Graboff or Jon Light, there's no bread to begin with! If I weren't playing, there quite simply wouldn't be any steel on stage with some of these bands, and pretty consistently, audience members remark on how much they love the sound of the steel. If I weren't there playing it (for free sometimes) these New Yorkers would never get to hear any steel guitar.

I do it for a number of reasons: I want as much time on stage as possible, I love playing music, and for the most part, the people I play for write great, challenging music and I am pleased to have the opportunity to play with them.
It is my hope that the money thing will improve. In some areas that is already happening, I consistently get at least $100 for any recording session I do, sometimes more. For me, you can call it selfish or whatever you want, building playing/recording experience and building a resume are more important than being a tough guy about the money.

Thanks for reading my post.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 25 Feb 2004 8:53 am

Tell him your time is valuable, and if your expected to be present as long as the other band members, you get paid what they get. The bullcrap that you don't play constantly ain't your problem---he needs to get better songs. I'd tell him that for half pay, he gets a life size cardboard cutout of me playing steel with a cheezy grin.

Rainer Hackstaette · Post by **Rainer Hackstaette** » 25 Feb 2004 9:16 am

"All animals are equal."

I refuse to play in a band where "some animals are more equal than others". And that goes for all aspects of making music together, not just the pay. We all know what species the more equal animals belong to. You can tell by the smell.

As far as minimum (equal!) pay, playing for the door or playing for free (for the whole band) is concerned: the relation between supply and demand determines the price. Sometimes, you have to create the demand by supplying under-priced or free samples of your merchandise, but only once. It has nothing to do with pride or self-esteem, and everything with marketing.

Rainer

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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '77 Emmons D-10 8+4, Sho~Bud Pro-I 3+5, Fender Artist D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD, Peavey Vegas 400

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 25 Feb 2004 9:22 am

Gerald, what you are talking about is different. I assume when the pay is low, it is low for everyone in the group. I'll play for nothing if I like the group and have nothing else to do - but that means everyone gets nothing. Whatever pay is involved should be split evenly. I don't mind if a little more goes to whoever brings the PA or does the booking. Also, a big name featured player might be given more. Our blues group sometimes has an old school legend sit in with us. We pay him more. I don't mind that. The rest of us make more at our day jobs. I play two or more instruments. But why should I get paid more, unless I am playing them all at the same time? Of course, this is all about just playing small gigs with small groups. For big gigs at the top professional level, bands and orchestras negotiate separate pay deals with each player. Even with small groups and gigs, I think you could make a case that a pedal steel player should get paid more, because of their rarity, skill level, and equipment expense. But I would never ask for that - just comes across too arrogant. [This message was edited by David Doggett on 25 February 2004 at 09:28 AM.]

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 25 Feb 2004 9:54 am

To Frank Parish -- Off topic, but . . .

John Roy was the drummer on the last gig I worked in Louisville at the Crossroads on Cane Run Road. You are right, really nice guy. He was studying in some field of medicine, dentistry I think.[This message was edited by Roy Ayres on 25 February 2004 at 09:56 AM.]

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 25 Feb 2004 10:06 am

Isn't it ironic that the pay is so low in places like NYC where the cost of living is astronomical? Same thing here, if you play at bars and clubs, you are playing for gas money and strings if you are lucky.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 25 Feb 2004 11:20 am

I've been pondering this one for a bit..I'm done pondering..

this is totally nuts!

Who gets the other half of the Steelers money ? Obviously someone who is worthy..like a singer who owns nothing...

"These boots are made for Walkin'"

Bandmates like these are basically the worst bunch of musicians (ego maniacs)that a fella could hang with..or hook up with..and clearly have no respect for the Steel player as a person..let alone one who plays Steel Guitar...

t

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 25 Feb 2004 11:23 am

Dear David,

You're right man, I went off on a tangent there, but the notion of "1/2 pay" struck me as amusing, since more often than not it's a "no pay" or "little pay" situation, for some of us anyway. I weighed in to offer a more general observation on the money thing here in New York, I guess.

Gerald

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 25 Feb 2004 11:42 am

Ya mean you guys are gittin paid?
Seriously, I would never work for a band that did that. I play on every song we do. Sometimes I even like the challenge of fitting steel into new places but, I could not sit there and not play much, it might even cost extra to do that. I would rather sit at home and practice or build a model airplane than play for half the money. Find a new band with better paying gigs to start with. No No No

Ken Williams · Post by **Ken Williams** » 25 Feb 2004 12:48 pm

I've never run into this situation. You gotta be kidding. I haul all this heavy a$$ equipment to the gig, spend time setting it all up, tune 20 strings and pedal touch-up if needed, then sit and play/listen for 4 hours while the guitar player's amp is so loud that I'm about to get a nosebleed....1/2 pay, yeah right. If I sound a little hostile, it's because I can't imagine anyone having the nerve to ask anyone to work for 1/2, regardless of their position in the band/show. Actually, I think we ought to get paid according to the weight of the instruments we play.

Ken
http://home.ipa.net/~kenwill
[This message was edited by Ken Williams on 25 February 2004 at 03:01 PM.]

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 25 Feb 2004 2:29 pm

You guys are in the wrong bands.. I AND the rest of the guys I play with make a MINIMUM of $100 each or we stay home....Too much time and effort learning to play to get slapped in the face with this "no pay " crap. I am shocked by the sheer numnbers of my talented collegues who will take thier steels,set them up play all night including band setup/teardown time and NOT get paid and then justify it with thier "love of playing"... sorry my friends... my steel,amps AND guitars would end up in the woodstove first... please forgive the anger..... bob

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 25 Feb 2004 2:43 pm

In most of the NYC clubs the bands are paying the landlords exorbitant rents the clubs are charged to get the space.
Some clubs are getting by, but many legendary rooms are closing because the rents are RIDICULOUS.
How about $10,000-15,000 a MONTH for a decent sized room.

Many of these places survive on dinner crowds before the show, or are labours of love by music lovers, who don't have the cash to pay what they think the bands are worth.

But if the band doesn't draw there is little left to pay them with.

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 25 Feb 2004 8:05 pm

I guess I'll arouse some ire by saying this, but steel is a bit like banjo (ouch)... that is, there are songs/arrangements where there's no part for the steel to play- especially in "modern" country music.

Any steel player who wants to work in a band would do well to take up one or more additional instruments and learn to play them well. I can't imagine a versatile (hence valuable) multi-instrumentalist being offered half-salary.

Rick[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 25 February 2004 at 08:09 PM.]

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 26 Feb 2004 6:25 am

A couple of my thoughts:

1) Never EVER take less than equal pay....EVER.

2) I play in a band where I pretty much play through every song constantly. I went and saw Kevin C. play and it floored me.....I realized just how much more of an impact my steel would have if I would just lay off a bit during certain songs. There's a big difference if you lay off of a verse (or all the verses) versus playing the entire time....

3) Regarding how MUCH each band member gets paid....I think you can find yourself losing out on playing some great places if you hold out for a minimum per person. My band has a regular once-a-week gig at a local bar, and we play for the door. Some nights, we're lucky if the whole band pulls in $80. Others, we could get three times that amount. Yet, just PLAYING there is worth my time and effort. The band I play in is top notch, the fans we have are incredible, and to me, THAT'S why I play. So much enjoyment....

...I suspect that had a hand in Kevin's situation. He enjoys playing out that to him, it's not about the money. In this case, it's more about the principle of the matter.

Joe

Nathan Delacretaz · Post by **Nathan Delacretaz** » 26 Feb 2004 9:08 am

Full pay - no doubt about it. Reasonable band leaders know that they're not just paying by the note, but for the decision-making control and the creative option to use people/instruments whenever/wherever they want. They are paying to have a palette of sounds *available to them*....In other words, sitting behind a steel not playing when you're asked to sit out is *still a service of sorts*!

...and who's the first instrument they call when they want to "sound more country"??? Steel, baby.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 26 Feb 2004 10:39 am

Interestng comments!....but, is it ethical to take more than the other band members?

For example, in my beginning days I remember a club manager telling me that: "If you'll play this job I'll play you $20.00, but the other guys are only getting $15.00. You have to promise not to tell them how much you are making!

www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 26 February 2004 at 12:22 PM.]