The Steel Guitar Forum

Craig, Thanks for the plug.

I really don't understand why there is such a big fuss. Robert plays a different style. so what? Is anybody going to abandon country because of it? Or forget how to play it?

The pedal steel is NOT a country instrument. It is an instrument. Period. It is capable of playing many different styles of music. Look at the great jazz recordings made be Buddy Emmonsm, Doug Jernigan and our own Bob Tallifer. Or Joe Goldmark's wonderful rock CDs. Or the new age work done by Robert Powell and B.J. Cole, Or the experimental music of Susan Alcorn and Chas Smith, or the emergence of the pedal steel guitar in African Juju music, or David Phillip's wonderful work with Jack West's group (I think the Jack West/David Philips CD b0b is selling is the best steel guitar album of 2003) or the jazz rock fusion group (which I've not heard, only heard about,) called Japancakes.

Our beloved instrument is being discovered and played by new musicians who are not into country music. This is IN ADDITION TO the many who play country. It means more players, and more instruments manufactured and sold, more acceptance for as among the rest of music world outside of the country music community (where, in some circles, the pedal steel guitar is still not regarded as a "real" instrumewnt but seen as a musical toy on the same level as a kazoo.)

I fail to see a down side.

....Our beloved instrument is being discovered and played by new musicians who are not into country music....I fail to see the downside.....

I agree with Mike on the above comment. RR may be having some influence on steel guitar manufacturers and sales....but, what is his "upside" influence for the 90% of steel players who have "nursed" this instrument through 50 years of evolution? I believe "none". Anyone influenced by RR's playing is not going to embrace the traditional sounding country E9 sound.

..so it is an empty victory for the pedal steel guitar!
www.genejones.com

What a tragedy to have a child take violin lessons and after all that, she doesn't want to play Bach--she just plays that damn bluegrass stuff.

My take:
Basically, what Gene said .

RR is good for steel guitar, but RR is not good for country music. Not damaging to country music, mind you; just simply of no benefit. He's not a C&W evangelist, just PSG.

If you view the steel guitar as being inextricably connected to country music, RR will be of no interest to you, and might even be disturbing. As in "hey, why can't Buddy Emmons be a rock star?!?!"

These same people, incidentally, would probably abandon Buddy and be profoundly disappointed in him if he DID become a rock star. "Turncoat!!!"

I doubt that few, if any, folks attracted to PSG by Randolph are going to have an epiphany and discover Steel Guitar Rag, or yell out a request for "A Way To Survive" while sitting on the floor at ISGC with a program book in their hands.

The upside is that Carter will sell a bunch of guitars, since they have the highest profile amongst non-country players who read the Musician's Friend catalog each month like it was Picker's Porn, as well as having the quickest delivery time. And there may be trickle-down benefits to other steel mfr.s and vendors.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 14 February 2004 at 10:00 AM, because he had more upon which to pontificate.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 14 February 2004 at 10:03 AM.]</p></FONT>

Does he use pedals?

Country Music today isnt even the kind of "Country Music" most of us here are moanin' about anyway. If RR DID play like some of us here wishes he would, it wouldn't make any difference what does or doesnt get produced on Music Row these days.

Thank goodness the PSG does still have a few champions there, even if they do have to keep it within the guidelines of all the record companies demographics and money people.

RR is an interesting catalyst in the evolution of the PSG!

<SMALL>These same people, incidentally, would probably abandon Buddy and be profoundly disappointed in him if he DID become a rock star. "Turncoat!!!"</SMALL>

Remember Dylan at Newport.....

I recently just just heard Robert Randolf play steel on a great counrty song cut by a band called Fountains of Wayne, a song called "hung up on you". Nice steel, sounded great to me!

Thanks to CrowBear's link, I checked out the RR comment board. One thing stood out to me...
While we're here putting the situation under the microscope with respect to the instrument he's playing, pretty well everyone on the RR board seemed focussed on the Mr. Randolph himself, the band, the energy level, the success of the shows,etc.
In fact, the only postings I saw there specifically about pedal steel were from two of our forumite friends.
Could it be we're overanalyzing ?
As far as my own opinion of RR, I haven't got one. I recommended to two friends that they take it his show at the Ottawa Bluesfest last summer, and they raved about it. I was gigging and couldn't go. (Missed Big Sandy and the Fly-Rite Boys too )
I'd guess I'd probably like it. I can never understand why anyone is concerned about whether or not somebody else likes the same things they do... whether it be food, brands of instruments or music in general.
-John

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www.ottawajazz.com

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR><SMALL>....Our beloved instrument is being discovered and played by new musicians who are not into country music....I fail to see the downside.....

I agree with Mike on the above comment. RR may be having some influence on steel guitar manufacturers and sales....but, what is his "upside" influence for the 90% of steel players who have "nursed" this instrument through 50 years of evolution? I believe "none". Anyone influenced by RR's playing is not going to embrace the traditional sounding country E9 sound.

..so it is an empty victory for the pedal steel guitar!

RR is good for steel guitar, but RR is not good for country music. Not damaging to country music, mind you; just simply of no benefit. He's not a C&W evangelist, just PSG.</SMALL><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Correct me if I'm wrong. The issue of contention here is traditional Country Western music and the appreciation of the "linneage" of the pedal steel guitar, and that we feel alienated, for lack of a better word, or that we feel that we aren't part of this, because of our devotion to Country Western music and the "traditional" use of the pedal steel guitar and what Robert is doing isn't seen as being supportive to those ends.

From personal experience, and I'm sure that many of us have something similar, I was expected to play classical piano and you would have thought that I had joined forces with the Devil when I got a guitar.

In November I played a concert in Berlin at the Podewil performance center, of my compositions, which are about as far away from trad C&W as one could get. My sponsor, who loved the sound of the steel guitar, wanted to know more about the other kinds of things it could do. I sent her a compilation cd of my traditional "weeper" favorites.

It may be premature to write off Robert as an ambassador. I don't know him, I've never heard what he does. People talk to me about steel guitar because they've heard him and they know I play. Anything that gets people talking about steel guitars, I think is good for all of us.

here's the link to RR's Message Board http://robertrandolph.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=frm&s=224607717&f=654607717
Although our beloved instrument is'nt necessarily a topic of discussion there, i do find discussions about Sacred Steel,and the House of God there.
why i even found out who the Lee Boys are http://www.leeboys.com

I hesitate to enter this discussion, but I just feel I have to respond to the idea that RR is no good for country music. I've said it before, but I got into country music indirectly through Robert Randolph. He piqued my curiosity about pedal steel, which led me to the Forum, which led to my discovery of the larger world of pedal steel guitar.

Anybody who's genuinely curious about pedal steel guitar (or music in general, really), however they initially develop that curiosity, will take steps to find out as much as they can about the instrument. Where this takes them is impossible to predict, but in my case it led to, among other things, country music (also jazz, which I was never into before).

Practically ALL the instructional material, and all the teachers of the instrument are country oriented. Until that changes, anybody looking into pedal steel practically has no choice but to explore country music. So anybody turned onto pedal steel will get to country music, one way or another. For now...

-Travis

FWIW, twice in the past couple of weeks I have met people, and in conversation it came up that I played PSG, and they both said "Oh, yeah, Robert Randolph...". I usually have to say, "You know, it's that guitar you play sitting down, blah, blah blah", and they look at you with a glazed look in their eyes.
Any way you slice it, it can't be bad - new styles and interpretations don't necessarily replace the old, they just add to it. People still listen to great music from hundreds of years ago, and the great country music will endure, too
I'm no RR, but I love to crank up my Real Tube and rock out, and I love to make 'em cry in their beer, too.
There's lots of room for everyone in the universe of music.
Arty

Maybe Chuck Cambell can ask Robert Randolph why he took the Fessenden logo off his guitar when he played the Grammys. Jerry Fessenden is offended and I don't blame him. As anyone who has met Jerry Fessenden knows that he accomadated Randolph's request for service on more than one occasion. Jerry does'nt deserve to be treated like that.

Mfg's are touchy about labels. I remember Ford Motor Company discontinued making EDSEL's right after I bought one of them, so I re-arranged the chrome letters on the rear fenders and the trunk of the car to read SEDLE, and then changed it every 30 days or so to something different like DELES, LEDES, etc.

The local Ford dealers didn't like it, but I changed the lettering back to EDSEL after several "stops" by city police and highway patrol who just wanted to find out "what" I was driving!

www.genejones.com

<SMALL> Jerry Fessenden is offended and I don't blame him. As anyone who has met Jerry Fessenden knows that he accomadated Randolph's request for service on more than one occasion. Jerry does'nt deserve to be treated like that.</SMALL>

Kevin, with all due respect, I can't help but think that Jerry is a big boy and that's Jerry's problem and not ours. Or more simply, it's between Jerry and Robert.

(..burp..)

Gee, everybody seems to jump right in and take this Randolph guy's side....

(..staggers over to the jukebox to play 'stardust' again...)



EJL

"Stardust"? Is that one of those boring "rock & roll" songs that no one does?

Gee, what day is this? Herb Steiner has finally said something that I don't agree with! Let me expound on what Travis said. I think that it's almost impossible to get into steel guitar and not discover the greats of the instrument and delve into C&W. It doesn't mean you'll embrace the music, or emulate the great players, but you'll definitely develop an appreciation (and probably cop some licks). It happened to me and for many players I've known for whom C&W was an acquired taste. Like Travis said, once you start learning the instrument you naturally want to learn all that you can, and all roads lead through Texas and Nashville. Even unique players like Freddie Roulette love steel in country music, they just don't choose to play it.
Joe

Right here in this thread, we have 2 people who have written that they became involved in the steel because of R.R.. and both are now exploring the more traditional style of playing.

<SMALL>I'm a long time 6 stringer that was inspired into the PSG by RR ...Matt Williams</SMALL>

<SMALL> I got into country music indirectly through Robert Randolph. He piqued my curiosity about pedal steel,...Travis Bernhardt</SMALL>

WHAT MORE PROOF DO WE NEED that Robert's success is good for the entire steel guitar industry and community, and will lead to more people discovering our beloved instrument and it's heritage.

Chas, you are right. That's Jerry's problem. Its also a reflection of CHARACTER.

It is not unknown in the TV and stage world for a live or pre-taped show that ALL marques are either covered up or a CHARGE is paid by the manufacturor for this otherwise free advertising.
The bigger the audience the more likely this is to happen. As the producers scrounge for profits.

Large brands like Coke and Pepsi pay big bucks to have their lable placed on a table in a TV or movie scene for a 5 second splash, during some totally un-drink related topic.

I won't say this is what happened here, but It might have been part of it.
I believe Yamaha has paid for this in the past on synths, all other marques covered, but that big Yamaha log standing out.

I HAVE seen this practice before when I worked in the NYC TV world and the marques were covered up on orders from the producer who didn't get his pay off.

So lets give Robert the benifit of the doubt.

this RR thing is becoming one of those facts:

1.black mica guitars sound better
2.push pull sounds better than anything else
3.U-12 is better than D-10
4.the new country music is better than old
5.RR is a great player

the facts we can use all the space on Bob`s server and will still not agree about.Did someone said,beating a dead horse?

A couple things here; In regards to the Fessenden label it's not the first time brand labels have been covered up on TV. I have seen several Fenders with tape on the headstock. I believe it is an advertising thing. As far as RR goes, it is stated that he is not country. Big deal. Is this a steel guitar forum, or a country music forum? I think it is great that steel guitar is getting some well deserved exposure. I wonder where RR heard his first steel? Maybe it was country music? Now some young kid is going to hear RR and maybe associate it with the sound in country. Also, if steel is supposed to be country only, it looks like Buddy, Doug, Herby,etc. messed up cause they recorded all those jazz albums. Shame on all those guys. I guess Paul messed up too cause he worked with Dire Straits, and so did Lloyd and Pete for working with the Beatles. Think about it guys.

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1985 Emmons push-pull,S-10 Marlin,Evans SE200,Hilton pedal

On his website, Robert Randolph includes Fessenden guitars on his equipment page.

The Grammies want "honorariums" for product face-time, and I assume they demand a chunk of change. If it's the logo or your career, which would you choose?

If Robert were on the outs with Jerry (which we don't know), he probably would've played his Sierra. And the Grammies might very well have made him cover up the logo on that guitar.

You guys can read whatever you want into it, but I doubt the missing logo is a case of spite.

Drew

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The Saltines

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 16 February 2004 at 11:46 AM.]</p></FONT>