Teach Your Children

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 15 Feb 2003 11:46 pm

I would bet that if you took all of the steel players on this Forum who have been playing for 10 years or more, and told them to work out something to play on TYC, 95% of them would not be able to come up with something as good. And maybe the percentage would be 99%. I don't think I could, and I've been playing alot longer than 10 years. It is so deceptively simple sounding. But so incredibly musical. And that is the neat trick about it. As far as Garcia being voted the best steel player in the world, who cares!?

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 15 Feb 2003 11:51 pm

Hey John. That's like the famous Johnny B. Goode guitar lick. Simple stuff. Anyone could have invented it right? Must drive all the super hot guitar players nuts to know that in all their playing, they will probably never invent a lick as good, even though it is so basic. Same idea as with Garcia and TYC.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 16 Feb 2003 12:26 am

As far as Garcia being voted the best steel player in the world, who cares!?

Apparently a lot of people on this forum.

A lot of us feel a sense of injustice that Garcia has received so much more recognition than Buddy and Lloyd and Reece and Curly and all our other heros. It's unfortunate that for some this has taken the form of resentment against Garcia himself. The resentment should be directed at the overall level of ignorance about our instrument and our best players on the part of the general public.

Oh, and Melinda, some hippies are thieves, but most are not. The same thing can be said for just about any group of people. I'm sorry you got ripped off, but don't blame Jerry Garcia. Or me.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 16 Feb 2003 2:33 am

Ok, I'll chime...
We'll set my timeline first..

Started playing guitar around 1960 or so..Started playing electrics in bands around 61 or 62 ..pre Beatles. Chuck taught me how to play, along with Nokie and the gang.

Started playing Steel early 70's, pre CSN/Garcia

Did Jerry inspire me..no..did I like the Steel solo..yes. It was a national song with deserved recognition for CSN, and thank god they had a Steel on it..at least folks heard it, who cares if folks didn't know that Buddy and Lloyd were tearin' it up on Saturday nights at the Opry...the best was still to come. Guitar player mag actually came up with a Steel Guitar award and I think in part due to that song. Guys and gals..we were now on the map.

I would bet b0b's millions that if Jerry was going somewhere where "E" was playing he would say "Hurry up you Dead Heads, do you realize that Buddy Emmons is playing Steel, He's the best there is" ...Jerry knew.....

My feeling is that Jerry played enough Steel to just play that song..He never really did any other worth mentioning Steel work after that, not that I am familiar with.
Discussing Jerry is always a big topic, but the topic started some 30 years ago.

Asking if someone of todays caliber could solo on "TEACH" today and come up with a better or different arrangement is not a valid question today, 30 years later 'cause in my mind the answer is yes, there are dozens of players on this forum who excell .Just go to some of the local shows and you will see what I'm talkin' about. But remember I am talking 30 years later as well..

The simplicity that Jerry displayed I believe was derived from limited experience with the steel, thats not a bad thing 'cause simplicity is a good thing.

Me, here we go now, hold on...I don't even think he was a good guitar player, I think he was a good musician and a fine singer / writter/arranger and did what musicians should do, use what they know to the best of their ability.

I'm not a Dead Head but many of my bands covered several Dead tunes, they were good tunes and fun to play. Probably would still be today..some of Jerry's songs are timeless.

Happy Sunday

tp

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 16 February 2003 at 02:34 AM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 16 Feb 2003 5:40 am

they were 30 years ahead of their time

better make that 29, JB, you can't trust anyone over 30...

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 16 Feb 2003 6:10 am

Anybody ever notice how bad Jimi Hendrix was out of tune, especially on his live stuff?
You guys hear Lampert's take on "Christmas Song?" Anybody plays like that, I'll respect his opinion.
And Melinda, Guitar Player used to be a REAL magazine. Jeff Newman, Mike Auldridge, and Rusty Young all had regular columns there at one time. Maybe you're too young to remember that. And I hate that Buddy didn't get the award, he belongs in their"Gallery of the Greats," for sure. But competition is for ball games, not musicians, actors, filmmakers, or anyone else whose art is his passion.But I'll bet ol' Jerry caused a lot of people to go running to the music store, and drop 300.00 on a Maverick, and there's probably a lot of those folks right here on this Forum.
One last thing, Melinda--Life is way too short, and WAY too precious, to spend going around judging people. Enjoy it

PEACE

Henry · Post by **Henry** » 16 Feb 2003 6:48 am

Melinda Dauley:
Feb 10 2003

I am looking forward to talking with all of you and picking your brains for information.
Oh yeah, I am also 22.
Cheers!
Melinda
Playing steel has been my dream.
=WELLCOME TO THE CLUB= PLEASE
Feb 15 2003
Jerry Garcia is the king of stinky hippies. I am not a fan of hippies.
If they were in the street I would try to run them over.Screw them.None of them, should be playing steel.Especially the king of stinky hippies Jerry Garcia....In Advance: Sorry if you are a pinko stinky hippie with no job and are on this board.
Melinda Feb 15 2003
??????? STAYaWAY PLEASE
btw i am NOT a JG FAN ,NOT a stincky hippie and
oh yeah i LOVE the "REDNECK shuffle/WesternSwing Music""
HENRY

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Post by **Joey Ace** » 16 Feb 2003 7:10 am

"He never really did any other worth mentioning Steel work after that, not that I am familiar with."

I love Jerry steel work on "Dire Wolf" from the Dead's "American Beauty" album. That was my introduction to BC pedal work.

Yes, Guitar Player was a great mag at one time, it's founder was even a Steel Player. Those days are long gone.

Apology accepted Melinda.
Now you've learned that you can't mention Jerry or TYC without starting a long passonite thread. This has been one of the milder ones. I look forward to more.

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 16 Feb 2003 8:31 am

Mike P,

I dont think that anyone should really take offense at "readers poll" results. Even in the so-called respectable magazines like Rolling Stone(Hot chicks not musicians on the cover every month) and Spin, talentless schmucks always win, while more deserving bands dont. I will go a step further and say that critics polls are just as bad. Apparently, bands like The White Stripes and The Strokes w/ their 3 chord garage rock, are much better than Mercury Rev, The Flaming Lips and Super Furry Animals symphomic masterpieces from the last year. I dont look at it as the deserving bands that I love being dissed, I just write it off to different tastes and in the case of Jerry being voted "best PSGer" it is just plain ignorance.

Oh yeah, did any of you really think "A beautifull Mind" deserved the Oscar over The Lord of the Rings? No accounting for other peoples tastes.

As for Jerry, I never thought of him as a hippy. He just happened to have a bunch of them following him around. I dont particularly care to hang out w/ country bumpkins and trailor trash, but I dont fault Willie Nelson for playing to crowds like this every night. Associating an entertainers personality to their fans, is a common misconception.

Sorry about the ramble, but my back is out and im on some serious pain medication.

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 16 Feb 2003 8:52 am

2003...today's high school anthymn should be..
"Search Your Children"

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 16 Feb 2003 9:09 am

A lot of us feel a sense of injustice that Garcia has received so much more recognition than Buddy and Lloyd and Reece and Curly and all our other heros

All of those Forum members who are upset about this or that injustice should "get a life" so to speak. I used to get all upset when my favorite sports teams did poorly in the playoffs or whatever. Real upset. Then my wife said that "why are you getting so upset? xxxxx (put in your favorite team or hero steel player) doesn't get upset if you lose your job (gig), or don't have enough money, or don't get recognition you deserve. Why waste your energy and emotion on people who don't care about you?" That bit of perspective set me straight. Hopefully it'll help some other people reading this who are pointlessly wasting energy caring about the fairness accorded others who by and large do not reciprocate, and who incidentally have already achieved a fair sense of fame which most of us will never have.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 16 Feb 2003 9:38 am

Back in the 60's when the hippy subculture was in full bloom, (and I was one), we were very young and naive and hedonistic and did some very foolish things. We were tragically wrong about drugs. I personally lost 3 good friends to overdoses. I've seen others who ruined their lives and destroyed their health.

But for all that, our slogans were sex, drugs and rock and roll, (which was only an udated version of wine, women and song,) and peace, love, and flowers, and the entire subculture was based on the concept of loving each other, and helping each other and co-operation rather than competition.

Look at what happened at the first Woodstock festival. 300,000 people stuck together in the rain, with inadqauet facilities, and not a single fight. Instead, they banded together and helped each other and showed a true spirit of botherhood and brotherly love.

I'm proud and grateful to have been part of that. (The subculture- I was not at the festival.) I feel my life was enriched by the experience, and the way I live my life today and the way I and treat those around me is very much a reflection of the attitudes I acquired during those years.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 16 Feb 2003 11:50 am

Mike, I could have sworn I saw you at Woodstock!

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 16 Feb 2003 11:52 am

"I'm Uncle Sam. That's who I am. Been hiding out in a rock and roll band."

"Wave that flag. Wave it Wide and High."

- Whose song was that?-

Yeah there are a lot of things you could call the GD, but I don't think Unpatriotic is a tag that is well borne out. I suppose you could lump a lot of "Canadians" in that category. I remember seeing Jesse Winchester and his FINE Steel Player on his return under amnesty. Gee, I never thought to yell out what a "stinky..." he was. Maybe I should turn in my Republican Party Card... I've had it a hell of a lot longer than 22 years.

I'm going to sneak in a personal observation here. The Majority of Jerry Garcia's "generation" of "war protestors" were NOT anti-american. Many were sick to death at what it had become. Mostly Lyndon Johnson and the rest of the De... (naw)..

Johnny Cash was a great example.

I think the ones nowadays are the "Blame/Hate America" bunch that really deserve to be off the teat and in some torture chamber of a country they are championing..

Two things. The Wall of Sound, and other than some of the rambling live stuff, Bob Weir on Big Iron, El Paso, and a few others were remarkable. Sounded Country Enough to me...

Also, besides the Beatles, very few bands had "perfection" in their record productions wrt rythym in their early period. Unlike the Beatles, the GD was able to reproduce what was on their albums live. That's why they out lived them in live performance.

I sat waiting in the rain for JG to set up the WOS there in Balto one year. It was worth it.

Hmm....

EJL

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 16 Feb 2003 11:57 am

Howard.

I think that was Larry Behm during his "Finding my Mojo" period. That's me in the purple pants and my new Noconas. I was heading out to get some more brown acid...

Post by **Joey Ace** » 16 Feb 2003 12:55 pm

The first time I heard "Moma Tried" was by the Grateful Dead.

I knew who Merle was, I even played the Burton Licks in "Lonesome Fugitive" but I never didn't know "Mama Tried".

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 16 Feb 2003 1:29 pm

Howard, even back then I had a lot less hair and a lot more belly.

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I'm not fat! I'm horzontally enhanced!

Melinda Dauley · Post by **Melinda Dauley** » 16 Feb 2003 1:36 pm

PS
I'm sorry I offended some of you so much. It's one of them kid things I'm sure I will grow out of.

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 16 Feb 2003 1:39 pm

2 opinions:

1) This is a fun topic- you guys are a scream.
2) IMHO, JG's greatest contribution was not as a polished musician. The GD was/is the consummate garage band. BUT He was a truly original character, a risk-taker, and a born leader.

Garcia, Buddy Cage, Rusty Young and Dan Dugmore introduced a lot of us old hippies to the steel. Without them, I doubt I'd even know who Buddy Emmons is (no kidding).

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Rick McDuffie
Debbie Elam Band
www.tarheelmusic.com

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 16 Feb 2003 2:18 pm

Rick, I fully agree with you.

Kenny Foy · Post by **Kenny Foy** » 16 Feb 2003 2:35 pm

Melinda, You can check-out and subscribe to the new PSG Magazine by going to "pedalsteel.us".

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 16 Feb 2003 3:24 pm

It's one of them kid things I'm sure I will grow out of.

Don't grow out of it too fast....

when I was a kid, I prayed for a BMW,
now, I pray for a BM....

Post by **Joey Ace** » 16 Feb 2003 3:34 pm

LOL.
Howard, it's time to recheck your medication.

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 16 Feb 2003 3:52 pm

Yeah Rick

I've been saying that for years myself....

I knew who Buddy Cage was WAY before I ever heard of Buddy Emmons. And if it wasn't for the dead, I'd have never given Country a second thought.

JB

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
Mullen Royal Precision D-10 8 & 5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 16 Feb 2003 4:03 pm

Melinda,
I know we've only just experienced your arrival into the Forum and the world of steel guitar but I have to say.."I LOVE YOU". I love the way you think and express yourself I hate them d@mn pinkos too!!! JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.