The Steel Guitar Forum

Unbelievable! Macy summed it up. It's comedy. It's got to be. How can anyone get so upset by Roberts success. Have any of you super opinionated guys ever sat on stage and played with Robert and his band? Have any of you guys ever played on Austin City Limits!I've done both ! More than once. And I happen to think Robert is really talented. Does that make me a dumbass in the eyes of the keepers of forum pontification? Probably so. Might as well include me with Shania, Garth and Robert Randolph. I've probably done my share of Steel Guitar Raping and Pillaging. Do I care? Shit no.I'm already dealing with hell on earth having to deal with major thirds.I'm just looking for salvation. Please Kevin, show me the way. I'm trying to see the light.
Oh yeah,about Austin City Limits or any TV show for that matter(and I've probably done more than one or two)It can be pretty intimidating. The sound sucks more often than not. The lights get hot and plays havoc on your tuning(besides making your makeup run) and you generally don't get a second chance. I'd almost rather eat slugs than do live TV.
My friend Robert is still young, naive and un-bitter.I hope he makes a million bucks before his twenty fifth birthday just so he can really piss you guys off.
BB

Calm down Bruce, we all have our opinions. I wish Randolph well. Mine is not the one and only. I respect yours. You always take the time to let us know whats on your mind. I LIKE Randolph. By the way I will be doing at least two stadium gigs this year in front of thousands of people playing five instruments including steel. I know what pressure is and I feel my opinion is just as valid as anyones here. I am going to see Joe Wright at the convention if he plays. A monster talent.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 10 January 2003 at 09:54 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 10 January 2003 at 09:58 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 10 January 2003 at 10:00 PM.]</p></FONT>

I heard Joe Wright was one of those hippies.

Bob

I was one of those hippies, and played my way around Europe in 1971 when I was 20 with Original music I wrote and sang. AND survived to tell about it.

No, RR is NOT Jimi, or Stevie. He probably won't be that either. He is a gospel blues player. That is it. He is not Curly or Buddy, Weldon or Paul, Lloyd or Mooney. Never will be. Besides why is a label so important. He is out there doing something. Wish I still was.

But he IS inspired! Inspiration is a commodity without purchase. May we all be blessed with it.

------------------
Bill Fulbright
Mullen D-10 8x7; Gibson ES-165; Peavey Vegas 400;
ICQ# 2251620 My Music Site

When I first heard the original sacred steel recordings I assumed that this music is an outgrowth of the gospel recordings of the great Blind Willie Johnson of the 30's, whose slide guitar work represents some of the finest recorded examples of the style. To my surprise, Sacred Steeler and occasional forumite Lonnie Bennett told me he was unaware of those recordings.

I still think somewhere, there's an evolutionary thread between the sacred steel style and the blues and gospel recordings of the 1930s and 40's, but Lonnie and Robert and their fellow Sacred Steelers seem to have kept themselves isolated from other musical forms.

I think anybody interested in the sacred steel style of playing would do well to investigate the bottleneck playing of Blind Willie Johnson, Robert Johnson, Son House and most of all Fred McDowell.

(Note, McDowell was not discovered till 1958 or 59, and never made any "race records" but IMHO is the finest slide guitarist to come out of that tradition.)

Sounds like sour grapes to me! Yes, it was not traditional or technically difficult, but he certainly had some bootys shakin in the audience(and on my couch). The X factor for all of the great musicians is not about technical prowess or conformity to style, and in my oppinion he deffinately has that X factor. As long as he moves people, who cares how he plays the thing!

------------------
Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Amen, Brother!

Robert Randolph is for sure a pedal steel player, there's no doubt. I haven't seen the show yet, but if Robert isn't whipping that tuning into submission then it's not portraying his playing very accurately.

It is true that Robert's bag is the blues riff thing, but he has learned a lot from players like Chuck Campbell about using the pedals. Every time I have played with him or heard him he has made good use of pedals in addition to his phenominal technique. I don't really hear any slide guitar playing in his bag of tricks, but I suppose that steel players who aren't used to hearing blues on the pedal steel might make that comparison.

To me Robert isn't about his contributions to the pedal steel, it's about his phenominal showmanship and his bringing the pedal steel out up and in front.

------------------
www.tyack.com

I just noticed.....this show is being aired tonight at 8 pm here in Chicago on channel 20 WYCC

Ed

I agree with John Macy and Bruce Bouton! Who are we to critique Robert or anyone else as far as that goes? We all know what we ourselves prefer,but we don't have to let the whole world know! Besides,it's not Roberts fault that he happens to be the first steel guitar player in quite some time to actually sign a recording contract with a major record company........try that someday when you have some spare time! Whether you like his style or not,he's exposing the instrument to people who other wise wouldn't know or care what it is. I happen to respect him because he's doin' his own thing! We all should be doin' our own thing........instead of voicing our narrow minded opinions about what somebody else is doing!! Without venturing into new arena's,the instrument will die or at the very least,continue to be stereo typed. Just let him do his thing! Some of you could take a lesson!!

What Buck said!

A friend gave me a video of RR on Austin City Limits.

I like entertainers. Mox nix on what they use as a prop.

Now hearing magic on a steel guitar would be anywhere Kenny Grohman is playing or Randy Rinehard or Dickey Overby or Denny Mathis or
....uh..better stop...the list would be too long.

Just buy 'Live at the Wetlands' and listen to 'Pressing my Way'. The guy not only plays great, but can sing and write some songs that reach your heart. Lets's get behing him, 'cause there are tons of non steelers already doing that. Go Robert!

------------------
Regards, Craig

Well, I feel a little vindicated. Remember, I was one of the first on this forum to see through the RR phenomon. I got ripped by the "politically correct' guys for my straight fowardness. Now finally, I'm seeing some other players publically agree. I knew the majority agreed but didn't have even enough interest in the subject to want to bother to enter the discussion.

I too, immeadiately went to his website and downloaded his clips and thought they were "less than impressive". One would have expected those clips to be the best representation of his talent. They sounded like a bad cross of funk and badly rehashed heavy metal licks. We've all seen players short on talent get a crowd going with their own enthusiasm (and volume).

He's loud & flashy, but a pale immitation to some of the real blues players I've seen over the last 35 or so years.

Bruce Bouton, you may be right, you may just be a dumass. Why do you assume that everybody who thinks RR is BS is "so upset by Roberts success"? I don't think any of his detracters here are any more interested in him than to make idle chit chat expressing minor amusement at those of you going gaga over him.

Besides, what success? Has he bought a new house yet? Has he even paid for his pedal steels yet?

As in your rebuff to me, here again you reference your desire that he make enough money to upset or make the rest of us jealous. Seems a little harsh from one of the current "kings of the Nashville session players", the guys who you instantly recoginize their style rather than wonder who's playing that anonomous pad or swell.

By the way, I played on Austin City Limits in the 70's with Doug Sahm. Back when most of us realized how easy it was to mimmick blues slide guitar with our Bosstones. Most of us quickly became bored with that sound. What were you doing back then? Going to college?

Now watch the group of young, 1 or 2 year steel guitar veteren RR fans with nothing better to do than pontificate about RR being the next "Charlie Parker" turn this discussion around with a flood of critism of us old foogies who are too dumb to recognize the "Saviour" of the pedal steel guitar.

Once again, if you wanna hear some truly bad ass slide, go find some early Earl Hooker records with tunes like "Tanya" and "Oh, Baby", just avoid those Arhoolie records he made in the 70's when he unfortunately discovered the wa wa pedal.

HH

By the way, this is just a casual observation from a guy who always says exactly what he feels, even though he is often no where near as passionate regarding the subject as those of you who easily get your panties all in a bunch seem to think he is. No need to fire up the torches.
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Harry Hess on 25 January 2003 at 07:36 AM.]</p></FONT>

Harry, thank God for free speach and this forum, because I feel the same as you do. I think you are absolutely correct. I don't dislike Randolph. I think what he does, he does great. I just don't think that its fair that he gets all this new attention when Joe Wright has been doing this for years, and on a much more technical and artistic level. When is someone going to give Joe a major label contract? He deserves it much more.
At least Harry you have the guts to say what you feel on the forum. I have also taken much heat over this subject. I applaud your candor. We all can't agree on everything all the time and I am not going to start slinging personal insults at other forum members because they disagree with my opinion. I respect all, including you Bruce.

As someone who said he doesn't like Robert Randolph's playing, I guess I'm one of the "un-politically correct" people who is supposed to feel vindicated, or validated, or something.

Last night I took the opportunity to put on RR's "Live at the Wetlands" CD when I had my 13-year-old son and his three "garage band" members as a captive audience in in my car. They were really intrigued by the sound, not to mention the pictures of RR's "weird sit-down guitar" and the fact that the Family Band looks like rappers.

The door was opened for a talk about pedal steel -- an instrument that only one of these four musically-astute teenagers knew anything about. And so I put on a CD sampler of some other steel guitar music I thought they might like. (What a coincidence that I had it in the car, huh? ) They listened to "Panama Red" (Buddy Cage), "High in the Middle" (Red Rhodes), "Long Time Gone" (John Hughey) and "Teach Your Children" (Jerry Garcia -- I know, I know. Please save yourself the keystrokes.) We were only going cross-town, or I would have added Buddy Emmons and some others.

They liked most of what they heard, even though I doubt any of them is going to rush out to buy a Carter Starter. But now they have a rudimentary understanding of PSG, and who knows -- might draw on it in their musical futures. Odds are they'll go the way of most garage bands, but the drummer's dad was a member of a Bay Area garage band that saw some later success: Santana.

So what's the point? (Maybe that I'm a "dumbass"?) Well, I'm going to give Robert Randolph some credit for exposing new, non-captive audiences to an instrument that they might otherwise know nothing about. A few of them might be compelled to listen to some other PSG players. A fraction of those might want to learn to play. One of them might attract new audiences to an instrument they might otherwise know anything about -- and that's a good thing, whether you like the way Robert Randolph plays or not.

Oddly enough, I seem to enjoy his CD more every time I listen. But maybe that's just political correctness coming through ...<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Russ Young on 25 January 2003 at 02:18 PM.]</p></FONT>

If Bruce is "dumb", make me "dumber", and we'll go shoot a movie.

First of all I have never preoclaimed Robert Randolph as "The savior of Pedal Steel. "First and foremost Robert is a friend of mine. I met him long before he got a record deal. A few years ago another old friend ,Dan Tyack , discovered Chuck Campbell,Robert, Calvin Cooke and a few of the other sacred steel guys. He found out that they had a church convention here in Nashville. He flew out here and rented a rehearsal studio and invited me to come out and meet some of these guys. Lloyd Green, Tony Paoletta ,Mr and Mrs Franklin and a few others showed up. Unfortunately the church service went overtime so the sacred Steelers were late . Most people had left but some of us were treated to what could be called , a blues based ,pentacostal driven jumpin for joy jam session. I just played lap steel but I had one of the most uplifting experiences I've ever had.Nothing was technical about it. I hung out on a lot of single notes, but they came from someplace deep within.It was one of those moments that you live for as a musician. A year or two later Robert came to town. We hung out and I went to his show. It was amazing to watch the young people going crazy with his music (which was still blues based , pentacostal jump music).I've been to see him numerous times since then and he gets better each show. I hope he can figure out how to translate this into a great record. That's the tough part. A year and a half ago Robert was a paralegal in New Jersey. He started doing some gigs and it started catching on. The jam band guys like it. He played with everyone at the Bonaroo festival. Warner Bros records liked it enough to give him a high six figure deal.
Hopefully he'll be successful. It's a crapshoot but knowing how unbelievably hard it is to make a good living in the music business I'm pulling for him. Is he ever going to sound like Joe Wright, or Tommy ,Paul,Buddy, Lloyd Harry or Kevin? Nope, but they ain't ever gonna sound like Robert either. Music"s about individuality. I spent three hours at the Longhorn steakhouse with Robert ,listening to the Jukebox. He couldn't believe all the great steel he had never heard. Afterwards we went and heard Johny Cox play. That's all he talked about.
As I said Robert is a friend of mine. That's why I take the time to defend him. I feel like alot of the musical opinions about Robert are valid and I respect them. I just sense that theres also some bitterness being spat upon this forum concerning Robert and I'm not going to let it go unchallenged.
Bruce Bouton

Bruce,

You are to be admired for your loyalty to your friend. But it has seemed that, in the past, anyone who didn't get excited about RR, or who even said that they didn't care for what he was doing would get attacked by his fans (including you) for their "negativity".

I for one, am not very impressed by what I've seen or heard of him. That doesn't mean that I wish him ill will. To the contrary, I wish him the best.

It also seems that some of the praise heeped on the fellow feels a little over the top to some of us who have been around and heard that act before.

I played his sound clips for some of my teenage students who are up on all the current rock stuff that the kids are into these days. None of them had heard of him. I asked what they thought of him and none of them seemed at all impressed.

That's not to say that he couldn't turn it all around. As you well know, it's really all in a song. If he gets his hands on a hit and puts it over strongly, then that'll be all she wrote. His fanatical fans will be vindicated.

You Bruce however, while you are enjoying your "stretch in the limelight" should keep in mind the impact of your words on some of the more impressionable minds here on the forum and refrain from impuning players abilities that you've never heard play (there are some little known guys lurking in the shadows of this forum who can really eat your or my lunch). You should also refrain from comments about the portfolios of those of whom you have no knowledge.

Other than that, keep on pickin', and the best of luck to you, Bruce. Please don't get your back up so easily over critical comments made here on the forum. It's very hard to walk the line of expressing an opinion here without having some guys go berserk. No hard feelings, OK?

I think that even those of us who are not impressed with your buddy still wish him the best of luck and hope he succeeds in reaching the "tops of the pops".

Regards,
HH
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Harry Hess on 25 January 2003 at 06:16 PM.]</p></FONT>

Bruce, I just wanted you to know that because of these posts on the forum I am in the process of getting in touch with the Sacred Steel community and finding out what they are really all about. I have a friend of some fame who is going to take me to one of their services. I wish Robert all the best. He is obviously highly talented and as good as he is now he will progress substantially through the years. Some of his progress will be because of friends like you and you should be commended for that.
So this hasn't been all negative. This forum does serve to open minds.

Another thing, I hear the PSG referred to as the instrument hidden at the back of the stage. While that may be true of some of the big Nashville acts who don't really feature the PSG much anyway, you also don't need to try to turn the PSG into another instrument in order to attract some attention to it.

It will return to it's 70's level of prominence when some new groups put it in the front line like the Derailers do. When I saw them, everyone in the audience paid a lot of attention to the PSG, since it was right in their face like the rest of the players.

There were even a group of girls standing right in front of Pete Finney paying close attention to him. I shouldn't speak out of school, but if I recall correctly, Pete had a very nice evening and deservedly left Philly with a smile on his face.

I played a little rock club in Philly recently when they were doing a Gram Parsons tribute. Most of the "all young" audience members asked me what I was playing. They ALL said that they loved it and considered the PSG to be very cool.

I believe the PSG will make a comeback in popular music. I even heard it mixed far in the background of a 10,000 Maniacs CD. It's just a matter of time till the next Sneaky Pete or Rusty Young emerges.
Keep the faith.

Regards,
HH

I have to admit that I like the Campbells better than Robert Randolph BUT he has a valid voice on the instrument. Take for example Segovia,Pass,and Hendrix. They were masters of the guitar. Just because they played different musics didn't make one a less valid player than the other ones.

I would like to post a few quotes from the Blues Revue Feb/Mar Issue:

"I played the lap steel and Dobro first, but for me, with a pedal steel you become more diverse. You have pedals and combinations of pulleys and strings, so you can go from country to a blues thing to a rock thing."

"Randolph gives back to the tradition that spawned him, starting a label called Dare Records ("cause they dared me to take the sound out of the church") and releasing albums by Cooke(Calvin) and Ghent(Aubrey. "Part of my vision was not even about my playing, but about what these other guys brought to the table. People like Calvin-when [The Album] comes out, people's gonna hear what he been doing for the last forty years. There's also something we're putting together which will feature the older Sacred Steel players, mixed with the main country pedal steel players. We're gonna do that in Nashville".

"I'm doing this for music in general, because mainstream music s#*ks. I'm sorry."



I think Robert knows where he stands and has his head on his shoulders. The article has some other really incitefull things from him. It's worth buying the Mag.

I appreciate everyone's opinion on this post, I myself love all types of Steel guitar and try to support it all. Thanks , Craig


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Craig Stock on 26 January 2003 at 06:52 PM.]</p></FONT>

He's right about main stream music. Bruce, are you gonna be on that album?<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 26 January 2003 at 06:59 PM.]</p></FONT>