The Steel Guitar Forum

Carl,

You lost all credibility a few years ago when you described Jimmy Day's playing as "sickening"...

And now PF is a better picker than CC ???

Ouch!

And you MR Scott are a LIAR!!

An emphatic LIAR!

I have never said Jimmy Day's playing was "sickening".

I said he was not one of my favorites. And some of his tunes at the ISGC were too long and too dragged out; for me.

"I love you soooooooooooooooooooooo much it hurtsssssssssssssssssssssssss me" was a typical case in point.

Did you read that?

I said, "FOR ME!" I also said he WAS a great player and he WAS! His style did not fit my favorite type of playing. But he was still a great player.

IF all of his stuff had been like "Crazy Arms", "Invitation to the Blues" and "Pick me Up on Your way Down", I would have LOVED ALL he did. Since he didn't, I didn't'. And I stand on it.

And YES. LET me put in as clear a way as I can.

IMO, Paul Franklin is a better player than Curley Chalker. However, they were BOTH rated (by me) over twice what the highest possible mark on the scale "stats" were!!

One awesome feat in anybody's mind who has a brain.

I perceive that Paul Franklin AND his sister (and others) have constantly disliked me for my ratings of BE. And that is ok by me.

But PF IS, in my opinion, one of THE all time greatest steel guitar players there has ever been. Again, IMO PF is indeed a better player than Curly Chalker was.

Curly Chalker was an incredible steel guitar player. Absolutely one of the finest ever. But just as Ted Williams was the greatest hitter in the opinion of MOST critics, somebody IS the greatest and EACH one under that takes a certain place.

BE; THEN PF; THEN CC, and on down the line til it gets to me. Who, by ANY One's standard is at the absolute bottom of the list. And that aint NO opinion. it is FACT!!

And whether YOU think I lost ALL credibility for telling it like it is or not, IS YOUR opinion TOO, buster.

I owe my allegiance to Jesus, NOT to rating players according to their personalities or business acheivements. I rate them in my opinion according to their playing abilities.

PERIOD!

And again YOU are a LIAR!

carl<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by b0b on 01 July 2002 at 09:40 AM.]</p></FONT>

Trying to compare Paul Franlin with Curly Chalker is like comparing conparing red and blue. Which is the "better" color? The two are so different as to defy comparison. Each had made a great contribution. Why not just leave it at that?

Personally, Curly Chalker is my all time favorite player. Does that make him a better player than Paul? Or Buddy or Lloyd or Reece or either of the 2 Jimmys (Crawford and Day)?

All I know is that every one of those guys is a heck of a lot better than I'll ever be.

I just can't understand why musicans can't help making a contest out of rating other musicians. Music is NOT a sporting event. There are degrees of experience and competency but for me, the guy on the corner who knows two chords may move me more than then the virtuoso if what he plays is played with joy and heart. I find numerical comparisons ludicrous.

I know this is between Pete and Curly but IMO Buddy Emmons is the Chet Atkins of the Pedal Steel. Doyle

Now after all the years of playing steel(45) I know why I'm not a very good steel player. I heard a lot about Pete Drake, liked his playing and style. Back then I never heard of Curly Chaker. WoW Joe<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 30 June 2002 at 01:51 PM.]</p></FONT>

This is directed to Andy Volk: I said the very same thing years ago! Why a sport? Why speed? I have some more "far out" recordings of myself that clock me with 16th notes at 300 beats/min. So What? If one does not play with emotion, then why music at all? My album, The Dr. of Steel does not appeal to the "average" steel player and I knew that before I released it. I wrote it in EZ Listening format so that it might appeal to a wider spectrum of music lovers, and thereby achieve some degree of success---and it has! I have had many eMails and calls from people I don't even know who say that it is like a "breath of fresh air." My next album is going to be heavier (ie, more "far out"); it probably will not sell as many, but so what? I'm not trying to win some (or any) contest. I"ll be playing aboard ship in the Caribbean the month of July, but will have my laptop for an occaisonal Forum connection. Best, HJ

Please fix the margins!

It's kind of a sad thing to me that some feel it's necessary to rank steel players, but to then totally lambast (i.e.,

<SMALL>"He could NOT carry a tune in a bucket."</SMALL>

) someone who's not even around to defend himself anymore... Well... Sad just isn't a strong enough word.

I sure wish I could play as awful as some of you think that Pete did.

Two recordings I can think of offhand that always give me goosebumps every time I here them - neither very complicated musically - "Blue Jade" by the Big E & "Loves I've Known" by Pete. But then again my tastes have always been pretty simple.

George

OK... I know... I know... Before someone tells me. It should be "hear"

Now that I think about it, I bought more Pete Drake recordings than any other steel player. It is one thing to sell steel guitar records to other steel players but it is another thing to sell them to the general public. I think the latter is more important. "Sleepwalk" is an excellent example. Joe

Yup!

Pete Drake was more of a "commercial player" than Curly Chalker.

That is , he made a lot of money, doing what he did so well........al

yup

I think most Pros want to make money. But you won't make much money if you just play or record for steel guitar players.I'm sure if Pete would have done that you would have thought diffently of him.Maybe by wanting the Pros to play only what they like, it limits what the public hears and they probably don't care for that particular steel guitar sound.

Joe,
Right on!

Here in South Carolina, we like Duke's mayonnaise. I like Hunt's ketchup. My favorite football team is the Ware Shoals Hornets. I REALLY like Reebok tennis shoes, and Wolverine work boots. I drive a Chevrolet. Monte Carlo. I like it. Man, that Skippy peanut butter is good stuff. These are all my opinions, if you didn't get it.
Now, is BE a better steeler than, Curley, or Buddy Charleton, or John Hughey, or Mooney, or Herbie Wallace, or Pete Drake, or ---shuffle these names in any order you want to. Fact is, they are all great steelers. Not good, GREAT! Record sales don't mean SQUAT, I think we all know that----and don't you all know somebody like Bobby Boggs, or Mike Bagwell, or Charles Reece, who just play the livin' DAYLIGHTS out of this beast, and don't have a single gold record on the wall? So, if you want to rate something, go rate meat. Carl, my brother in Christ, let it go. Everybody you named, is somebody's hero, and your personal like or dislike might turn somebody the wrong way. Ain't it good, that we've got so many great players to steal licks from??(Sorry if I left anybody out!!)<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Stephen Gambrell on 30 June 2002 at 06:36 PM.]</p></FONT>

What we write, on any subject, in any media is always subject to personal interpetation.
It would be hard to be objective and state your feelings if you were overly concerned how they might be read by others. That destroys the spontaniety of the thought and dulls the conversation. But there are other facets that bear consideration as well and here is an example.....

When I wrote about Buddy Charleton, I wanted to say that while the general concensus at the time was that he was an E9th man, his instrumentals with Leon Rhodes showed another side. I wanted to describe his C6th playing and I compared it to Curly's music. High praise indeed, I thought. WRONG !!

What I wrote was: " He plays Chalker plus."
My meaning was that he was also an expert on E9th.

But that wasn't how Curly read that line. I found myself having to play catch up really fast when he put it to me at the start of his interview. I said something like: Heck, I'm not steel stupid. I know what you play !! That's why I'm here. I want to tell the world about your playing and it's the talk of the steel world right now.

Fender had warned me that he could be a hard interview but just the opposite was true and it was one of the easiest interviews to do.

I learned to write with a grain of salt and to be really careful about how I said things.

The Forum has now taught me to read really carefully and if you get too much salt, try some water to cool it down. Don't worry about the sand and gravel in your pan. It's those little shiny nuggets of information we all gleam from this Forum. It shouldn't be a competition or a battle of wits but rather a place to learn and become better informed about steel guitars and their players.

Regards, Paul

Paul that's a good example of two great players that played totally different.However I must say you are a braver man than me to face Mr.Chalker after wording the comparison like you did. I guess all's well that ends well.

Steve Gambrell:

Whatcha mean Bobby Boggs ain't got no gold record? I do to.I painted it myself. I'll bet Mike Bagwell has painted I mean earned several gold records.

Anyone ever tried to play a gold record?Well one nite Terry Crisp got,how do I say this?Overly happy. and did just that.Turns out the gold record he received for a Travis Tritt or some country session.Was a record of old 70's pop music. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 30 June 2002 at 11:53 PM.]</p></FONT>

Wow! Didn't mean to start a battle. I have several of Pete's LP's - and only one of Curly Chalker (but it's incredible). Anyway, Pete's music was (and still is, in my opinion) very listenable and a commercial success. Curly's LP shows incredible talent and technical skill - but is probably more appreciated by musicians because we KNOW how hard it is - than by the general public. I know one thing - I CAN play a lot of Pete's stuff (and sound like him) but I don't think I could even tune Curly's guitar. But what the heck - I love 'em both!! Incidentally, the fellow that told me he witnessed the event was a buddy of mine by the name of Gabby Burroughs, who played a pretty good lead guitar. Gabby was the hubby of Silvia Jo (who made a few cuts, one of which was "come hell or high water" - different song from the one most people think of with that title - which was DARNED GOOD). Silvia Jo is the owner of the Wagon Wheel in Flint, Michigan, I believe. I haven't seen Gabby or Silvia Jo in over 25 years, though. Don't know even if Gabby is still with us. He was a co-worker with me at an auto plant, and was instrumental in getting me into pedals (no pun intended).

I'm just a big Mooney fan. I can't help it.

But it doesn't stop me from enjoying all the other great players, and because it's not a contest, I don't have to choose. I can Listen to them all.

Life is good!<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Andy Greatrix on 01 July 2002 at 01:01 AM.]</p></FONT>

One thing about Curly that most people don't realize is that he was just as good on E9 as he was on C6. There are a few E9 tunes on the live video that are just incredible.

He truly was one of the all time greats. I wish he were still with us, and that he had made more recordings.

Carl-
Nowhere in your post about Pete Drake do you state that it is just your opinion. You said (among other things):

he was simply NOT a good steel guitar player

And please don't call me a liar. You did use the word "sickening" (among other things) to describe Jimmy Day's convention performance. And it was just a few months after his passing, as I recall.

Kick 'em while they're dead, eh Carl?

WWJD?

IF, you had used your brain (assuming you have one), You would have long since known that EVERY post is one's opinion! It is understood; which apparently you are not capable of understanding.

And YOU sir are a liar!

You took words OUT of context and pretend to tell the world something that was NOT said. You tried to convey a meaning that was NOT intended. Which is typical of any one that tries to defend the untalented ones in life.

I tell it like it is. NOT the way it might have been or the way people want it to be.

The man was a genious. An incredible genious. He was loved by many. INCLUDING me. He had a procession at his death from here to eternity. Which bespeaks of his tremendous popularity for all his acheivments.

He made gobs of money and he should have because he found a trick that NO one else had found. He exploited it to the nth degree. He derseved the accolades that he got.

I admire him and love him and respect him for all he did. He was a giant in the recording world. BUT, he was still NOT a good steel guitar player.

IF, he was then there in no way on this earth to rate the likes of BE or PF, etc.

IF, PF and BE, etc are great steel guitar players, then it is an insult to call him a good steel player. which most great players did not. And many of them have said it in private.

You are like the person that said,

"Judas betrayed Jesus." "Judas went out and hanged himself." "Go ye therefore and do likewise."

The truth is NOT in you.

"Get thee behind me SATAN"

I said he was NOT a good player WHEN he was alive. I Stood on it then. I stand on it NOW!

carl

I asked Carl this in email, and didn't get a real reply:

Who was the better steel player, Pete Drake or Jerry Garcia?

My point is that playing an instrument is more than technique. It's more than knowledge. Playing an instrument, at the most important level, is about communicating with the listener. Both Pete and Jerry did this very well.

Of course, Buddy and Curley and many others do it well, too. But it's a substantial part of "how good you are". Pete Drake was a genius when it came to finding parts that fit the tune in a way that the audience could relate to. He inspired thousands of players to take up the instrument. The same can be said of Jerry Garcia.

So, if flattery is the sincerest form of imitation, I want to be "NOT a good steel player", at least in Carl's eyes. I would love to be able to reach audiences the way that Pete and Jerry did. It benefits our community greatly whenever a steel player reaches the mass audience.

Maybe it's time to expand our definition of "greatness".

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<small><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 01 July 2002 at 09:58 AM.]</p></FONT>