The Steel Guitar Forum

To Jim Cohen:
Good luck with your new CD & recording Dec 7th. Joel Glassman will be a definate asset to your project.

Bob, there's some real good advice on how to handle it tactfully, with subtle overtones, blunt and downright telling him how it is.
All of them, (except maybe Smiley's solution) are quite good.
I especially like the tape.

If the bandleader is the type who takes requests, what you could do is get a couple of friends to attend and make sure that their request is for the 'busy' fiddle player to sit out a couple of songs.
This works better if they don't know who the guys are,... just a thought.

I still like the solution I've mentioned before....."ANYTIME YOU STICK THAT FIDDLE UNDER YOUR CHIN BUDDY YOU'D BETTER BE PLAYING 'CAUSE EVERYONE ELSE EXCEPT THE DRUM & BASE IS GONA STOP PLAYING!!"

Q: What's the difference between a fiddle and an onion?

A: People (especially steel players) don't cry when you chop up a fiddle!

DZ

This may be a case of "the cure is worse than the sickness," but here goes. Hire somebody that THINKS they can sing better than they can play fiddle. Stick them on a harmony part, and then they'll spend most of the time singing. Now your problem is solved by simply turning his microphone off if he's terrible.

Garnett

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"The New Guy"

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Wow, thanks for all the replys. Just want to add that fiddle, when played correctly,
is such a treat to listen to and play with.
I have been fortunate to have played with some great ones over the years. This situation is frustrating, almost like beating a dead horse ! But, with your ideas, maybe I can get the point across......AGAIN !!!!......and if not,
Ricky Davis I'll be calling you to "whoop his @!*! ".
Thanks,
Bob

Our Fiddle player does the same thing, fortunately, he never turns up loud enough for anyone to hear him, even when he takes a ride.

Reminds me of a job I did years ago.
The fiddler was excellent (Larry Packer)
but boy did he overplay! I just
sat back the whole gig & let him go.
He filled every conceivable hole in
every tune. I just figured "screw it",
I'm not gonna try to <u>compete</u> with
him! So, I just played some chords & stuff in the backround, collected
my $$$ at the end of the night & went home.

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<a href=http://members.localnet.com/~jsganz/OldSteels.jpg><font face=BinnerD>my old steels</a>
<font face=loosiescript>

Some fiddlers think they can comp rhythm. They can't. It's not a rhythm instrument. The best way for a fiddler to comp is to stop playing.

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<small><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (E7, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Aren't we picking on the fiddlers?

My experience is that electric guitarists and keyboardists have been worse about this sin. And I've never heard a fiddler generate the hellish, cranium-cracking volume levels of some of the keys- and six-stranglers.

That's correct, Jeff, but it's off topic. This thread is for beating up on fiddlers. Get with the program.

... Jim, it's working ... OUCH!

Fooch

The first year I attended the Texas Steel Guitar Assn. Jamboree, I arrived just in time to see the thursday night jam. Sitting in with the excellent house band was a young fiddler who merrily fiddle-dee-dee'd his way through everyone else's solos, vocal lines, etc. Also in the band was the wonderful (and blunt) Leon Chambers on guitar.
Later on I was on the elevator when the door opened, and the young fiddler stepped in, fiddle case in hand, ashen-faced and bug-eyed. "How's it going?" I asked him.
<I>"Not bad, I guess (pause) I just learned a valuable lesson from Leon." "Oh?"

"Yeah... Leon told me the proper position for your fiddle while not taking a solo is Perpendicular To The Face Of The !#$&! Earth....." </I>

Those who don't know any better get told
-John<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by John Steele on 23 November 2001 at 12:59 PM.]</p></FONT>

Hey Fooch,
Great to see ya on the Forum!
It's about time....where the heck
have ya been?

(check yer email....)<img src=http://members.localnet.com/~jsganz/Smile.gif>

Where else, but on this forum, can you get your name published if you overplay? Hey! maybe thats the only thing that will work!

This topic is interesting to me. I have worked with a few guitar players over the years that were guilty of over playing, but WAY more fiddle players that do it. Actually, I have seen some players of all instruments, including the steel, that over play. I have even worked with a Bass player or Drummer that overplayed…. But fiddle players seems to be the most guilty! I have always been puzzled as to why this is.

Music is music, notes are notes, and to my way of thinking anyone that wants to be in an “organized” musical group (band!) needs to learn and understand the discipline required. You play when it is your turn to play, and you shut the hell up when it is not! That is really fairly simple to understand. Maybe I am just a little dense, but I don’t GET IT!!

Let me add quickly that in spite of all the BAD fiddle players I have had to work with, I have also had the pleasure of working with people like Bobby Flores, Hank Singer, Ricky Turpin, Ron Knuth and a few others that were WAY above my head, and the most professional people you would ever want to know. You know in your heart and mind that you are really not good enough to sit next to them, but somehow (in most cases) you rise to the occasion, play above your own ability and have a great job. Now THAT is when you can really appreciate a fiddle being in the band!

B. Bailey Brown

Now wait a minute !!! I certainly wasn't talking about FOOCH !!! Fooch is the real deal and great to see you here buddy !
And for the record, this post is not about fiddle players in general, just the one I'm dealing with now.....it can apply to any instrumentalist who doesn't play to make the band sound better.

Bob

I agree. Fooch is great. I love Fooch. In fact, I smoke a little every chance I get.

I've been playing a lot of Cajun music in the last 7 years and I had another guy that played fiddle that would never let up. The reason I got him was so we could do some twin fiddle tunes because I play fiddle also. Well the twin fiddle tunes always went over well but if we did anything else or someone else was taking a solo he always thought it was his turn also. I tried to reason with him but his ego always got in the way and he would have words with me. Well finally I just got rid of him. I'm also the lead vocalist and my voice was getting wore out just trying to sing over the top of this guy and our drummer. I got rid of the drummer also and now it's my way or the highway and that's exactly what I tell people comming in my band because I'm getting too old to argue with these ego-maniacs. I like a band that works as a team and suppoerts each other. The vocals and the lead (whoever it may be) should be heard first. I tell my band members there job is to make "them" (vocalist and whoever is doing the lead) feel and sound the best that they can so that the lead or vocalist can do their job the best. I believe a band should be like a small support group all helping each other to sound the best they can. We all can be guilty of overplaying at times and we all need to express the good and bad points to each other. Communication goes a long ways provided the egos don't get in the way. But there's way too much to learn to get too big of a head on any instrument. About the time ya think ya got it all licked someone or something is gonna knock ya down and bring ya back to reality. Bottom line is there's way too much to learn and learning when not to play is just as important as knowing when to play. Ziggie

..nobody can accuse Fooch of not knowing when to keep quiet...he's made a grand total of 3 posts in almost 2 years as a registered member of the Forum!..

Well guys, eat your heart out!! Our guest fiddler tonight at the Little O' Opry was Jenee Keener. She is a pleasure to work with and we had a ball. Thanks Jenee! It was fun jamming with you again.
Jerry

Thanks again for all the replys.
We'll see what happens !!

Bob

One man's overplaying can be another man's underplaying. Also, how you MIX in the sound (dynamics, volume, taste) is often MORE important than how little or how much is played. A player playing his few riffs TOO LOUD might be offensive while another player playing alot but mixed into the dynamics of the band might sound perfect. Two, Buddies, Cage and Charleton, used to play almost non-stop behind the singing for measures at a time and always sounded perfect. You can often hear backup behind singers that keeps going while the singer is singing. Depends on how much, how little, the mix of chords vs. single notes, dynamics, phrasing, etc. etc. There is no set rule.

I haven't had so much of a problem with fiddle players in the bands I've been in. What I have problems with are the lead rhythm players, and lead bass players. You guys know what I mean? Now that's hard to handle. I worked with a band once where the rhythm guitar was louder than I was, and I was the only lead instrument. It wasn't a matter of me just turning up, because my amp was already as loud as I could stand it. The club was real small too. I leaned over to the front man that hired me and said "What are you going to do next, because I'm only going to be here for 5 more minutes, and then I'm leaving." He asked why and I told him. That was the first and only time that I walked away from a job. Like Popeye says "
I had all I could stands, and I couldn't stands no more".

Joan Cox

Lead bass players? The least of your problems?
A friend & his wife own a really neat coffee shop in a 1920's art-deco building near here, with always a friendly crowd of customers who seem to appreciate any sort of well played music.
I managed to fanagle a potentially great regular Wed. night gig slot through my contact, the owners. I wanted to put together a well rehearsed Swing & Jazz group. I had enough good guitar players on hand. We held a few auditions. I invited a great & versatile (when I had caught his gigs) "harmonicats" old-timey swing/blues sort of harmonica player. A young bass player asked about getting in. I asked can you walk in four, put the downbeats on 2 & 4, and not play the guitar on the bass? "whatever you want" he says. "Simple, in the pocket is what we want", I says.
First audition, bass player sets up and loudly starts spewing out his last ten scale(?) lessons (from a fusion style pro bassist), harmonica player drags in his guitarist buddy, who looks like Charles Manson & proceeds to play strophic pentatonic blues licks over everything...and the harmonica player yells "Jazzman!" with each of his solos. I pass out very simple chord head charts, no response beyond cosmically focused blank stares & "what the *$^&$ is this?" shrugs from them. Ah, whatever. Been here, done this! I rolled my eyes, shook my head, thickened my skin, and after several sessions walked out, quitting my own group and boycotting MY entertainment calendar slot! And I just couldn't bear the thought of getting to the point with these guys to where I had to do another lecture to "musicians" about dynamics!
I started playing there on Bluegrass night and switched my disdain to the matter of #(^@ b@njo players. At least there the disrespect is mutual.