The Steel Guitar Forum

<SMALL>One thing I have noticed about many of those who seem to get really excited about steel guitar played in a way that is very different from the real heros of the instrument, is that they are often not very accomplish at playing in those styles and their tone is amateur.</SMALL>

Robert Randolph is NOT an amateur. His playing. although different from what we normally associate with a steel, is quite good. His tone is unlike that which we are used to, but is approperate in the context of the style he plays.

Perhaps the TV show was not the best place to see him for the first time. Frank, I suggest that if you get the chance, go see him play live.

I did NOT mean RR, I meant those who are excited about it. The "over-hypers," if you will. Not all of them. Just an observation.

Waited until you thought I was gone, eh, Mike? I could not let that misunderstanding go without clarifying.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>You all will have to overlook some of those who make me the target. They have had their hats handed to them in past debates (most likely political ones on the OTB) by yours truly and are not over it to this day. Those are the ones who tend to ruin threads and take people on tangents that wastes time and effort all in an attempt to make someone look bad. It is truly sad.</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Frank Estes on 08 August 2001 at 01:15 PM.]</p></FONT>

Very interesting thread; I saw RR in a small club here in NY this spring just as the hype was getting rolling. I have to say that I was impressed by his abilities as a showman, but his steel playing sounded like a guitar player stuck in the pentatonic box. (His vibrato is beautiful, I readily admit). Harmonics with his tongue, playing with the bar from underneath the steel, very amusing, but Bruce Kaphan and Bob Hoffnar pack more musicality into one break than there was in most of RR's set.

I understand he is putting the steel in front of people who would ordinarily never have any exposure to it, and support him 100% for that, but I just wish it were someone playing with more harmonic complexity and subtlety.
I look forward to seeing how his playing evolves; the dude has been at it only 8 years after all. Putting my welding mask on now.

It's sad, because Randolph will probably never be as good a player as half of the guys posting in this thread!. But he's the next big thing (maybe) and the main thing he has going for him is youth. And unfortunately we live in a culture where the entertainment experience is more important than the content. If talent was the sole determining factor we'd all be rich and successful, right?



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Emmons Push Pull S10 | Peavey Session 400 | '52 Fender Lap Steel | Goodrich L120 & Matchbox
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<SMALL>It's sad, because Randolph will probably never be as good a player as half of the guys posting in this thread!</SMALL>

Oh, Michael. What's really sad is to see anyone in the steel community "predict" how good someone else will ever become in their life. There is just no call to write something like that, no matter what you might think of anyone's current level of playing. Many of the guys in this thread have been playing 25-30 years or more. Robert's been at it a mere eight, and just coming out of the church closet. I think, and expect, he will surprise a lot of us long before 25 years has come and gone. I'd certainly want to give him, or anyone, the benefit of the doubt.

Man,
I must be hearing things because, when I heard him "doodling" on the Public Radio interview, and listened to him rock out and play some terrific blues, my feeling is that he could play up to the level of a lot of players we know. I'm sorry that due to the song selection and sound engineering that he couldn't do what he was capable of doing on the Conan show, but he is STILL the most exciting thing to happen in a long time. You make it sound like he can barely pick whole notes. This guy WAILS. C'mon now!

I can't believe the close minded comments. Just to let you know Michael, in response to your assumption of his future skills; I would pay money to see him play above most other steel player right now. Just like I would have payed money to see Jaco Pastorius, Louis Armstrong, Ornette Coleman, or any other musician who has helped revolutionize an instrument. I am a new steel player, and I can't probably name 10 steel players. (Even though I know their music.) If you are rating him purely on a traditional steel scale of course he won't fair well. But, if you could be open minded enough to judge him on his musicianship as a whole you would have to recognize his greatness.

Well, I have often been branded as one of those "old guys" here, and I do prefer the traditional stuff, by and large. Now I'm gonna take the other side of the coin. You see, there was a time when I played just that kinda stuff on the PSG. Screaming fuzz, flangers, Leslies (the real thing...not the new e-jobs) were all part of my routine. Our kickass Country band would do Outlaw Country, and everything from Stones, to Aerosmith. The kids loved it...cost me a lotta speakers...and about half my hearing, but we went over just like Robert did last night, and it was fun.

Keep in mind, that performance was targeted at the kids, like 15-25, and wasn't meant to appeal to us. The big audience is with the young, and no amount of harmonic complexity or melodic subtlety is going to sell to them, much less any other big market. We like the pretty stuff...and the jazzy stuff, but we're more mature, and are a small group of enthusiasts to begin with. Youth demends energy, and that's what Robert gave us last night...energy. Steel will always be a niche market, no matter what it does...or who's doing it.

Sure, like the rest of you guys my age, I would have loved to have seen Buddy, or Doug, or Curley, or Reece on the old Tonight Show, but it never happened. The "mass appeal" just wasn't there, and that was a show for the older audience.

Don't get down on Robert. He's just doing something different, and it will never hurt any of us in the long run. Remember the old Hollywood saying..."There's no such thing as bad publicity". Anything that gets the steel noticed will help all of us. Robert didn't play pretty, slow stuff, but no doubt he can. He played mostly straight guitar rock n' roll licks. He could have done the same thing on a Stratocaster...

But I wouldn't have watched, if he did.

Let him enjoy his "time in the spotlight", and I guarantee, if we're still around 20 years from now...he'll be playing our kind of music!

Well, I saw it and I'm voicing my honest reaction. Are you guys just so desperate to get a pedal steel on TV that you would stand up and cheer if they busted one up on the WWF?!!



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Emmons Push Pull S10 | Peavey Session 400 | '52 Fender Lap Steel | Goodrich L120 & Matchbox
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I guess I will buy the CD and give it a good listen, you're right, one song done live in a Television studio, is just not enough information to form a fair opinion. I'm going to trust Mike Perlowins assesment,Someone please post the site to order the CD. Thanks, Larry

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GO TITANS GO!!!
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Larry Miller on 08 August 2001 at 03:27 PM.]</p></FONT>

I personally like the guys playing,he has some interesting right hand techniques that I would love to know. I didn't catch him on TV last night, but I base my opinion on the sound clips that I heard on the public radio show. His playing is obviously based in the blues, but thats the audience that he is shooting for. Many lead guitarist use the same formula and its proven to be very sucessfull one. As far as the overhyped thing goes, Dan Tyack described RR a few weeks back, as a good young player with plenty of talent and technique ,but lacking the musical depth of some of the older guys that play this style of music.

Mike

Frank,I beleive I was the one whose post you are referring to in which I stated that I hoped to see a Charlie Parker on steel,etc.That post and the thread it was on took place a few months ago and although I don't remember verbatum what I said,what I intended to convey was that I was glad that black people were picking up on the steel guitar.This is because the most interesting musical artform in my view - jazz - came from American black culture and I figure that if black folk pick up on the instrument,the results are bound to be interesting.
That is not to say that future steel virtuosos could,would or should be of any one particular ethnic background.
As for R.R.,I missed the show last night because I had a gig,but a friend taped it for me and I will view it tomorrow.I have heard one tune on the Sacred Steel Live CD and he seems to have some chops and a style of his own.
As for Doug,he is one of my favorite players and is a great guy who has gone WAY out of his way personally on my behalf and I have only the highest regard for him. -MJ-

Here is Robert's website:
http://www.robertrandolph.net/

and here is Amazon:
www.amazon.com

Do a search for "The Word" and you can find his CD.

Regardless of how much sand us little armchair quarterbacks kick around at each other in our little cyber sandbox Robert is out there really doing something great . As a matter of fact right now there is a line around the block at a big NYC concert hall of music fans waiting to hear Robert play instrumental pedalsteel music.
This is a freaking miracle for the pedalsteel !

Bob

The spot on Conan was not "The Robert Randolph Show". It is important to take it in context. The song chosen (probably by the TV producers) was not their best, and does not showcase Robert. They were promoting the whole band after all, and everything is carefully scripted. Robert played conservatively, and I can understand that. If I suddenly had 4 minutes on NBC (having never played on live national TV before) conservative would be the least of it- I'd be s-i++ing bricks. He and the rest of the band stayed cool and got thru it fine.
His tone was a real dissapointment. It sounded like he was run dry after the effects into the board or something, and he was way down in the mix. NPR captured his otherwise good tone on the radio interview, but those folks actually know how to record sound. I don't want to hear anybody dump on his playing before you at least listen to that interview.
It is no secret that I appreciate Robert as a player and as a person. My opinions have not wavered.
I am dissapointed to hear people hear slamming him after one four minute spot. If you'd think about all of the factors involved, you'd have a lot more compassion. Music is a HUMAN enterprise. The slick, compressed soul numbing sensorial barrage that is most of entertainment media threatens to forget that fact- but we should not. Expecting a young player, the first time out in a foreign, high stakes environment to shine at full power for his 1:35 minutes is asking too much. He did fine, and deserves our support. And right on Bob, this is a freaking miracle for the pedal steel!
T. Sage Harmos<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Sage on 08 August 2001 at 04:45 PM.]</p></FONT>

Hey guys. Wasn't it great to see a PEDAL STEEL GUITAR right out front FEATURED on National TV on NBC on the Conan Show ???

When was the last time that happened.?

Thank you Conan....I too would like to see someone like Reece featured on a national show like that. But anything that helps promote the Pedal Steel Guitar is ok by me........al

The Conan show was my first exposure to his playing. Nice to hear from others above that he has a lot more to show than the one song last night, which did fall short of fully justifying the talk about him. It did seem mostly like licks that a lot of guitar players would be familiar with. The tone also made me wonder why he had the Fessenden. I wasn't paying strict attention to this, but my impression was, on that song anyway, there wasn't much pedal work. But, I guess pedals are just there to serve the idea. Probably other stuff he does uses them more, as has been suggested.

Still, I thought what he played was pretty tasteful. Especially for as young as he is, he could have been FAR less musical, even if the licks weren't all new and different. I liked the feeling, and for many that's the important thing.

Like others above, I was struck by the fact that there I was, watching a guy play pedal steel, sitting down, no vocal, center of attention, on national T.V. That's pretty unique.

From another angle, I think it's great that there has been this musical tradition in the black community that has been growing and developing, and now it's becoming known nationally. I've loved blues, jazz, and R&B most of my life, and have found black music to be a very significant influence and inspiration. Unfortunately, lately I haven't been able to say that very much, since most of the newer stuff, like rap, doesn't seem to me to be very uplifting. What I heard last night is POSITIVE. This guy can do nothing but good. I think it's great.

On another subject, and this isn't meant to take sides on the Jernigan-Parker question, it's pretty striking to listen to a Charlie Parker record, and hear how all the other instruments also play Parker's ideas when they solo. Of course it wasn't this way only on Parker's own records. I can't, off the top of my head, think of another time when it was like that. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 08 August 2001 at 06:51 PM.]</p></FONT>

RR got more "camera time" to expose PSG to a new crowd of folks than the last half dozen Opry shows I've watched.
Did anyone else get to play PSG on live national TV last night?
JE:-)>

I don't know how we got on the Jernigan-Parker thing here, but since everyone else is voicing thoughts about these two, here are mine. You can't compare Jernigan to Parker any more than you can compare the steel to the sax, or Country music to Jazz. Sax is mainstream, steel is not. (Here's where I go out on a very big limb!) No one will ever play the long, blindingly fast riffs Parker did on the sax on the steel guitar...it will just never be done. But, with his talent, Doug is about the closest thing we have to a Charlie Parker in the world of the steel guitar.

Frank, what makes you think I "waited until I thought you had left" before answering you?

And what makes you think you ever won a debate in off topic?

<SMALL>and that's what Robert gave us last night...energy.</SMALL>

...Donny, I agree with the sentiment. I haven't seen RR live, but I saw Calvin Cooke live, and saw Chuck Cambell and a kid named RayRay jamming in Philadelphia, and that hall was COOKING, people of all colors were dancing in the aisles...I'll try to keep this comment rated PG 13, that TV segment last night was like making love with your clothes on compared to the real thing live...that genre of music is about energy and the musicians and the audience feeding off each other, and it's real, you can't fabricate it...

...so yes, the show was disappointing, it didn't live up to the hype, and they were out of their element in a staged TV segment, the energy Robert gave last night was just a little taste of what he can really do, he'll blow you away live where he can feed off the audience, you gotta see it to believe it, and you have to just let go and let the music take you away when you're there...

..I like Pink Floyd, too, but that's not all I listen to..

Ok, the only time I have ever heard Robert play was last night. He seems like a great player. And I am under the impression that all the music on is album is instrumental, correct? Now some of you guys are talking about Robert really promoting the steel to the young, hip, youthful audience. Now I am one of the real young players(17 years old) and I was not turned on to the steel through rock or even new country, all I play is classic and traditional country, western swing, and jazz(the master's styles). What I am trying to say is I'd rather hear Charleton play Waltz Across Texas then hear blues on the steel. Anyway, alot of you guys who were my age in the 70's claim to be turned on to the steel through Garcia, Al Perkins, Red Rhodes, Buddy Cage, etc. Now, these guys were playing with some of the tops bands of the era. The music was on TV, radio, and million selling albums. What I am trying to say is instrumental music will not sell to an MTV crowd or pop crowd. It does sell to the youthful underground NY and LA scene. The steel has to get back into mainstream pop and rock music to really reach the young masses. Players like Johnathan Cullifer and myself, even Robert and some of the other Sacred Steelers are rare exceptions.

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The Young Steelkid

I couldn't fall asleep 'till after 3 am!!!!

Just got home from the Robert Randolph 'The Word' show in NYC. Robert was great, he was having a ball, and was very appreciative of the packed house (Second night) that was going nuts for him. The crowd was diverse, black, white from 14 years old to fifty.

Folks, remember, Robert has been playing live in clubs for a whole eight months now, his new record is #2 on the blues charts.

He is also playing in a Jam Band with John Modesky and The Mississippi Allstars, and the format is different. He played some nice more country style things on a few songs , but otherwise had a more lap sound.

The point is that he was up front and everyone's eyes were on him, and he is a showman, man can he play the drums too! As he gets older, I think he will be fabulous and will use more pedals and knees, but right now he has a sound that is causing some real excitement, kind of like a Dave Matthews type following.

I will be seeing him again for sure!

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Regards, Craig

I agree with Bobbe Seymour's first post.Also I think the Fessy looked good in purple. No I'm not kidding.And I really hope the guy get's to do Letterman.I'd rather see Tommy White,but that ain't gone happen.Like Bob Hoffner said,I think if RR gets really popular we will all get more work.That is the ones of us who like to branch out.
As for his tone,Your not going to get that fat sweet tone and play on top of the pickup.I'm sure he knows this.But I would like to see him move his right hand more to the left for the more main stream tones,and play on top of the pickup or whereever for effects.But then again it might spoil the whole deal.Come to think of it,I've never been a featured guest on anyones TV show.----------bb<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 08 August 2001 at 10:52 PM.]</p></FONT>

This is for Eddie Lange mostly, but it also applies ot others.

Most of us are living in pockets of cultural isolation. We are exposed to music through the circumstances of our lives. Take Frank for example (and this is not a put down in any way Frank.) Frank is fortunate enough to live in a place where he can go hear people like Doug Jernigan or Herby Wallace play whenever he wants. So it's only natural that he is involved with those people, and he holds them as the standard by which players are measured.

I love in a city where the steel is virtually unknown, where the once thiving country music community (and work for country musicians) has all but disappeared. Here everything is rock or rap. It's not just that the music business is only interested in that sort of thing, the bulk of the population is only interested in that sort of thing.

This is the home of the purple hair and pierced eyebrows set.

These people do not know about Buddy Charleton or Waltz across Texas. They don't know about Hank Williams (Sr, Jr, or III.) They certainly don't know about Buddy Emmons, or Lloyd Green or Jimmy Day or Doug Jernigan, AND THEY DON'T CARE.

As far as these people are concerned, music was invented by Jimi Hendrix. They are only interested in rock to the exclusion of everything else, just as some of the people reading this are only interested in country to the exclusion of everthing else.

Robert Randolph is reaching these people. He is reaching them because what he does is excting and energetic and it ROCKS. Whether or not he can play as well as some of our Nashville heros is irrelivant. He connects with his audioence in a way that they do not, and he connects with an audience that they can never reach.