The Steel Guitar Forum

I said in a previous posting that: The pedal-position of the Multi-Bender . . .
Forces a picking-position that provides for a "poor tone" . . .

But, I must state that: So does the Bigsby Palm Pedal - Tele' "Swing-Arm" model!
It is the nature of the Fender body style here. With a short: "Bridge-To-Pin" measurement.

So many guys have these instruments, and love the tone . . .
And will choose to sacrifice even more "tone", just to hold-on to their favorite axe.
I try to persuade customers to choose a better body style . . .
So that the Palm Pedal installation could work best for them.
But, I usually get nowhere.

The very first Bigsby Palm Pedal installation that I ever saw was on a Strat!
I, even now, do not know how he did it!
(I struggle to explain Strat installations!)

But, that guy came back to me for a new assembly recently . . .
And I sent him to the Multi-Bender site!
I am waiting in anxious anticipation to find out how it works for him!

will this Deusenberg Multibender accept other strat-style bbridge saddles? It looks like it might have rollers..

I am looking at using piezo-saddles for strat on one of these, possibly.

It's just another in a long line of Palm Pedals.

I've been through Palm Pedals, EZ Benders, custom-made variations...and they all have the same issues for most players - terrible hampering of right-hand picking position and dynamics.

Most models completely eliminate palm muting except in one less-than-optimum picking position...and muting WHILE bending is physically impossible.

There are guys who make them sound great, but my personal experience playing many types...and installing them on other player's guitars only to have them ask me to remove them...is pretty consistent - they severely limit how you can play your guitar.

Strap-type benders (Parsons-white, Glaser...even the lesser Parsons Green and the unique, but useful, Higgins peg bender) are far more practical, as your playing doesn't change at all. Even the Hipshot, which to me is awfully flimsy and light-duty, is superior and does not affect normal playing.

I've seen palm-pedal type units with shorter arms - better, but you still lose all damping when you use the bender. I just find them extremely awkward, and don't see any point in spending quite a bit of money for something that cripples part of your playing...especially when you can go to a unit that has NO effect on the right hand for not much more money.

It always seems to be the same old "I want wings on my car, for using it as a plane, but I hate the wings to be in the way when I´m driving down the highway..."
Of course the player has to change his playing style, when using a
bender unit. Of course damping the strings is not possible in the common way. A unit as a palmbender ALWAYS requires a change in the picking style. The Parsons/White style bender does not effect the right hand, but of course the left one, because this hand has to push the neck down for activating the bender. This constuction provides classic stringbender/B-bender sounds in the Clearence White style. The goal of palmbenders is different: getting pedalsteel sounds.
So for sure it`s always a compromise. It`s NOT a new effect pedal where you stomp on, and the sound is there.

It`s a new instrument, that definately requires the oldfashioned, unhip thing:
Practicing and practicing.

A fellow by the name of Keith Cary performed at my home last night and seems to have found a solution. He had a bender installed on an old Supro 6 string that allowed him to use his right knee to push a lever out that would raise the second string a full step. Another lever could be pushed out by his right elbow to raise the third string a half step. The lever arms were about 10 inches each and could simply be unscrewed when not being used. There was also a hinged piece of metal mounted to the bottom of the instrument that could be pulled down just to the left of his left knee that would stop the instrument from moving when he pushed the lever out with his right knee. He built it himself. He was playing in open E and it sounded fantastic.

http://www.keithcary.com/
www.myspace.com/keithcary

I posted these pics in a separate thread, but I might as well add them here, I guess, since the bender unit's Duesenberg.

Yes, there are compromises enforced by the bender levers

, but it's still a pretty cool unit and works well

John Billings wrote:I'm going to be getting one soon. I currently use a Hipshot with two benders and three levers for detuning... http://steelguitaramericas.com/

The Hipshot allows changing to an alternative tuning, whereas this unit allows changing the string tension on the fly, like a pedal steel. I would think both are necessary. I wonder if it would be possible to install a Hipshot to change the tuning between E9 and C6, and then use this unit to make the pedal changes.

My other question relates to the number of strings. I'm thinking of building an 8-string. I know that Hipshot make an 8-string Trilogy: I'm wondering if this unit could be used for 8 strings.

Also, does this unit contain a bridge ? Would it be possible to install it together with a resonator ?

"The Hipshot allows changing to an alternative tuning, whereas this unit allows changing the string tension on the fly, like a pedal steel."
Alan, seems to me you're thinking of the Hipshot Trilogy, which does make tuning changes. I have a B-bending lever, and a G bending lever on my Hipshot. These are the "pedal steel-like" benders, same as the Duesy.

Yes John, I was thinking of the Hipshot Trilogy. I knew Hipshot made the bass extenders but I didn't realise they also made the levers you mention.

Which still raises the question, could you use these levers AND a Trilogy, use the Trilogy to change tunings and the other levers to do the pedal changes ? Given the dimensions of the parts, would that be physically possible ?

Alan, I don't see how they could work together. The string ball ends are terminated in the individual levers and toggles of the Hipshot Bender, and the bender itself is fastened to the guitar by the rear strap button. AND, if you could change the tuning, that would change the tension on the string, and the bender "throw" would have to be re-adjusted. I've been using a Hipshot since they first came out.

Thanks John. I'll have to think again.

Wolfgang:
I went onto the website, but they only sell through distributors, and there are no distributors in the United States. Where can I buy one with three pedals ?

Are they all chrome-colored, or can you also get gold-colored ?

Martin Huch wrote:http://www.rockinger.com/index.php?cat= ... duct=2405C

Thanks Martin. I ordered from this website. It seems that the US Distributors only mention the guitars, not the accessories. I ordered direct from Germany. I'll add more information to this thread as I get it. I've ordered the unit plus two extra pedals. I'm looking forward to using them.

Although I play PSG it's a hassle to go to a casual jam session, have to dismantle your pedals and levers, re-erect, and reset everything, then do it all in reverse when you get home, especially with a Sho-Bud Crossover, which is heavy and needs some time to set up. With these levers I'm hoping to build a small lap steel that I can carry around.

what I want to know is can I get a black one?

I think this thing is the nicest looking mechanism, and the levers can be swung away too, I can see setting up one guitar for this.

Jason Dumont wrote:Well I sure didn't notice a loss of tone from the sample clips!
I have GOT to get one on a steel. The metal work looks first rate. Keep up the great work!

I second Jason on that!

Martin, you and Dieter appear to have produced a very fine product there. I definitely want to have a lap steel set up sometime soon for that... what did someone call it?

Oh yes... "Pocket Pedal Steel!"

It could come in very handy for certain tunes and/or jams.

I received mine last week, plus two additional palm levers. I've looking forward to building an instrument around it. It looks well-made.

I played the Deusenberg at NAMM and had a lot of fun with it. The standard issue was involved, though. Hand placement is sacrificed. The palm pedals were easy to press, but I noticed that the string gauges were much lighter than I use. That made them easier to press than I would experience with my gauges.

I had three palm pedals on my first 10-string dobro. One was hooked up as a wrist lever. One time in Nashville, I was able to show it to Jimmie Crawford, who, in his lifetime, was not only a stunningly good steel player, but a wizard with PSG setup. I thought he'd be impressed or at least amused, but after I played some flashy stuff with my palm pedals his brow wrinkled and he said something along the lines of, "Y'know. I think if you're going to play pedal steel, then you play pedal steel. If you're gonna play dobro, then just play it." I don't know exactly what else he said, but the idea was that there is a lot of cool technique that you can do on dobro that might not be exhausted in one lifetime, so why deal with gadgets. The next string change, I took off my levers. That having been said, when I was playing the Deusenberg the other day, I definitely considered putting my palm pedals on one of my National resonator guitars, just for the fun of it.

Now, if someone would only build a real pedal dobro that has the mechanical integrity of a Ped-A-Bro and the tone of one of my National spider/cone guitars. OK, OK, I'll settle for less.

I just saw this thread today. John Billings, you might have by now fixed the problem, but in response to your statement about your HipShot detuning when you used the B lever. The older HipShots did that as the cross rod they were mounted on would flex when the lever was activated which didn't effect the high E string much but there was a very noticeable lowering of the G string. They've since fixed that problem by putting a screw through the back of the unit right into the rod so it won't flex down toward the face of the unit. With my first HipShot I had that same problem so I fixed it by cutting a block of aluminum (hard wood would also work) and wedging it between the rod and the face plate of the unit. It's best to put it right next to the G palm lever. When you do this the rod can't move and you'll not have any more detuning of the unit.........JH in Va.

Jerry. Thanks for the tip! There's not much room on mine, but I'll take it to my machinist buddy. He'll figure something out. Got a pic? I've been thinking of buying a new Hipshot with just the B and G levers. But I'll try your fix first.

Hey John, I see a space between your G and A levers on the rod which you could put a block under to eliminate the flex. Also, have you ever considered putting a shorter lever on your G palm pedal? I cut mine off and just tighten it up with it facing straight to the bridge. It's easier to use that way and doesn't require much to activate it as the tension is still easy......This HipShot I've pictured is on a Fame Mastercaster (MIJ) Tele copy.....JH in Va.

Jerry, I play the G lever with my wrist. That's why it's angled over that was. I play only fingerstyle. Wouldn't know how to use a pick to save my soul!

Can anyone tell me where I can get a Bigsby Palm Pedal? Especially the Dobro model? I looked all over the www.BigsbyPalmPedals.com site, but there's no ordering info. No results on Ebay either. Nor are there any mentions of them that I could find on the Bigsby Guitars site. Any thoughts?

Brian J. Stafford wrote:Can anyone tell me where I can get a Bigsby Palm Pedal?

I don't think they're available anywhere right now. The company in Germany that originally stocked them don't even list them on their website any more.
By the way, here are some photos of a Rondo SX that I fitted the unit onto a few months ago. It does everything I wanted it to.

db wrote:I said in a previous posting that: The pedal-position of the Multi-Bender . . .
Forces a picking-position that provides for a "poor tone" . . .

If you're building a lap steel from scratch, or if you have enough room already, the answer to this problem would be to mount the palm lever assembly slightly further back and insert a roller bridge just before the pickup. You have to be careful the new bridge is in the right position for the scale on the fingerboard, of course...