Webb Steel Guitar Amps

Steel guitar amplifiers, effects, etc.

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Curt Langston
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Post by Curt Langston »

<SMALL>I'm just wondering if there is a possibility that this speaker is a JBL 130 in Eminence clothing, clothing that no one else has ever worn or seen on someone? </SMALL>
The Eminence Kappa Lite 3015 has a frequecy range of 40Hz-4 kHz

It is only offered in an 8 ohm version.

It is recommended by Eminence as a bass or PA speaker.

I doubt it will even come close to the "sweetness" of a JBL or a Commonwealth.

I would not use it as a steel guitar speaker in any amp.
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Barry Blackwood
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Post by Barry Blackwood »

Tom, the Eminence Commonwealth speaker, besides it's 22 pound weight, is apparently available in a 4 ohm version only. As per Jay (Ganz) suggestion, the idea of offering the Webb with/without speaker already appears to be gaining acceptance ...
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Curt Langston
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Post by Curt Langston »

Thats all well and fine, as long as folks are not buying a "Webb" amp with an 8 ohm speaker, expecting the power of the original Webbs with a 4 ohm speaker. The sound may be similar in tone, but the power will be reduced quite noticeably.

To me though, it seems like such a waste of power and most importantly head room....................

Either way, if I buy one, it will have a Black Widow or Commonwealth in it. I want to have the amp perform as it was designed to. I'm a big boy and can watch out for my own volume knobs!
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Jay Ganz
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Post by Jay Ganz »

Actually, the "Bass version" of the Kappalite
is the 3015LF. I wouldn't recommend that one.
If anyone prefers the weight & tone of the
Commonwealth, then by all means stick in one of
those instead. You'll have a great amp behind
it in either case!
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David Doggett
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Post by David Doggett »

Just a couple of comments. From what I've read here on the Forum, it was Fender who introduced the "dishonest" volume pots very early on. That would seem to have set a precedence that Peavey and other later manufacturers felt compelled to continue.

In one sense it doesn't seem logical to put a speaker with mismatched impedance in the amp to prevent speaker damage. You would then be carrying around a heavey amp that is unable to acheive the maximum headroom of competitors' amps of the same size and weight. The conventional solution is to use an impedance matched speaker with power handling that matches the amp's power. A 60 watt JBL in a 250 watt amp was a gross mismatch.

On the other hand, the Deltalite knocks of 13 lbs. in weight. So that maybe compensates for the unused weight and power. I believe the Deltalite is only available as an 8 ohm speaker. An interesting possibility for those who want to open up the full power of the amp would be to get another Deltalite in an extension cabinet. If that is run in parallel with the internal speaker, it will be a 4 ohm load, and the two speakers and correct impedance will really boost the output.


As for other speakers, steelers mostly use the high power output of their big amps to milk sustain with the volume pedal, not to play the amp at top volume. So a speaker with slightly less power handling than the amp is probably safe. Also, the closed-back cabinet design substantially protects the speaker. So probably a speaker that could handle around 150-200 watts would be safe. In fact, if you are really in love with JBLs, running two 8 ohm JBLs in parallel would be a 4 ohm system with about 120 watts power handling. With close-back cabs, and careful volume pedal use, that is probably safe. I use two JBLs in closed-back cabs with a 180 watt Super Twin cranked to 10 with no speaker failures. Without a volume pedal, of course that would blow the speakers - and also your ear drums.
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Barry Blackwood
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Post by Barry Blackwood »

Curt, in my most recent post, I was merely trying to address Tom's concern, however unfounded it may be, over ohmage issues with the Webb. Personally, it doesn't matter to me which speaker anyone uses with their (Webb) amp. As fine a product as they are, in my brief personal experience using one, I never could find a tone that I cared for. Just my opinion, of course ...
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Bobby Lee
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Post by Bobby Lee »

"I have always hated 'dishonest' volume controls." -Bradshaw

I want one that goes up to 11. Image
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Barry Blackwood
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Post by Barry Blackwood »

It will have to be British ...
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Jeff Hyman
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Post by Jeff Hyman »

Tom,

I own 2 of the 614-E. I'm glad to hear you're going to try and bring WEBB back to life. It is a fabulous amp... construction, tone, reliability. I'd recommend to really test the waters before making to many changes... and consider offering the original setup for a while as well. I have *never* had a volum problem with the 4ohm speakers.

FYI: I play in stereo. The other amp is a Fender Hotrod Deluxe. This is an amazing combo for a fat clean tone.



------------------
Jeff Hyman
jeffshobud@yahoo.com
Sho~Bud LDG
WEBB and Fender Deluxe
www.HatCreekCountry.com
www.cactus.com

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Ken Byng
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Post by Ken Byng »

I think the idea of supply the amp without a speaker is an excellent one. Apart from the preferential choice viewpoint (we all have a view on our favourite speakers), it would cut down on the weight and therefore the freight cost for me in the UK.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Ken Byng on 16 September 2006 at 03:05 AM.]</p></FONT>
John Lacey
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Post by John Lacey »

By the way, what is the price Tom?
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Ken Fox
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Post by Ken Fox »

IMHO I tend to agree with Tom on the 8 ohm speaker. The 4 ohm speaker was and still is another "spec game" in my opinion. It allows you to rate the transistor output amp at a higher wattage. Trade-offs? Yes, typically a 4 ohm speaker is up to 3 db less efficient than its 4 ohm counterpart. It takes half the wire to wind a speaker bobbin to 4 ohms. A 4 ohm speaker on a 4" voice coil (such as a JBL or Black Widow) will not have the deep throw of a 2.5" voice coil speaker. Using flat edge wound wire probably has helped and is required in such speakers to get the basket to move as deep as possible on low notes.

The 8 ohm speakers allows an amp rated at 4 ohm minimum impedance to also run cooler.

Just some thoughts!
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Randy Beavers
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Post by Randy Beavers »

But what if the brand new amps with 8 ohm speakers actually sounded BETTER!!! Now we couldn't have that!

Go get um Tom. I agree with the 8 ohm is better than 4 ohm theory. I've never had a speaker that sounded bad due to being 8 ohms, I prefer them. I've blown too many 4 ohm speakers over the years.

I have no doubt that whatever speaker you use the amp will sound great. And no matter how great it may be, there will be those who will still change out the speaker for their choice. I'm just glad you are going to make the amps again.
Tom Bradshaw
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Post by Tom Bradshaw »

Hey everyone; thanks for the encouragement. I'll reply to a few of the posts. First of all, I don't know what the price of a 614-E amp will be. Jim Webb was selling them for $1750.00 at the time he became ill and stopped building. That was a whopper of a price tag. I'd like to sell them for $400.00, but I know I would be bankrupt sooner than I probably will anyway!

I see no problem offering the amps without a speaker. If you utilize one you purchased or one that was 4-ohm and it blew for some reason, it would be your speaker, not one that I supplied. I know that 4-ohm speakers cause an amp's power supply to run warmer. However, the heat sinks in these amps are good. I've not heard of anyone over-heating a Webb amp because of using a 4-ohm speaker. It appears apparent that a 4-ohm speaker blows more often than an 8-ohm. Maybe if you used two 4-ohm speakers and wired them to achieve 2-ohms, that would present a heating problem with the amp. Again, no one has posted a complaint about that.

About offering a variety of speaker models for all customers; that would present a problem. Speaker manufacturers require "original equipment manufacturers" to purchase 50 identical speakers in an order. With all the speaker models mentioned here, I would have financial problems if I bought 50 of each just to accommodate the preferences of all buyers. The best plan is for the buyer to purchase his own.

I've been having discussions with Brad Sarno. Brad is well known here on the Forum and an expert in electronics. He demands quality components in everything he buys, makes and sells. I like his point of view. I hope to use his input in making certain everything about the Webb measures up to his expectations. He recognizes the sound characteristics of a Webb and wants to maintain it. His demand for the highest quality of components in amps meets my expectations perfectly.

I've already discovered that these are expensive amps to build. They have never been built by machines or on a high-output assembly line. Other than the manufactured electronic parts, the amps are put together by human hands. The first 25 I finish will probably turn out to be less expensive than the ones built in the second run. That is because I don't know much about what I'm doing and will not know how to price them out. I'm a novice at this. I've got a lot to learn. Those making the decisions about the amp will be experts and probably over-qualified. They will save me.

If you want to learn when that first 25 are available for purchase, please send me your name and email address. I will add you to the "Interest List" that is already accumulating. I'll send everyone an email of the owner's manual when it is finished, along with other pertinent information. I'll be reactivating the web site that was on line a couple of years ago. It will contain periodic updates as to how production plans are progressing.

At the time I purchased the company, I obtained a number of completed amps in the inventory. When local friends learned that I had some, they bought every last one of them. All know my "return-for-any-reason" policy. Not one has been returned! I'm encouraged by that fact. ...Tom
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Bari Smith
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Post by Bari Smith »

I've got two Webbs ...One is 4 ohm..The other is 8 ohm...No problems with either,both have JBL.If I plat a large stage I use an extension 8 ohm with the 8 ohm amp to total out at 4.It all boils down to a personal thing..Webbs perform equally well with either one and I have used these amps continually...Workhorses!
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Dave Zirbel
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Post by Dave Zirbel »

I think all 6-14E Webbs are designed to handle 2, 4 and 8 ohm loads. Mine has that info silkscreened on the back by the speaker jacks.
J W Alexander
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Post by J W Alexander »

Congratulations and nothing but the best wishes for your resurrecting the Webb brand---you're doing the whole PSG world a good deed!

The debate regarding speakers is interesting and only shows one thing---tone is subjective and there's no right or wrong---just whatever suits the one playing through the amp! Adding the flexibility for a buyer to provide their own speaker will be a nice touch.

I would also suggest you contact Mr Ted Weber of Veber/VST for speakers---his offerings are right up there with the quality and dedication to tone that Jim Webb offered. I believe our own Gaylon Matthews is well acquainted with Ted which might be partially why he has considered venturing into the PSG world. Weber/VST has a wonderful JBL D-130 clone and even offers it with a paper dust cap for those who disliked the aluminum cap normally associated with the D- and E-series JBL's.

I sincerely hope your labor of love here will be rewarding--it seems you have a good support base if nothing more. With Brad Sarno onboard and the stellar players who will eventually use these amps there will be no shorage of feedback and input. Peavey, Fender and the other mass manufacturers cannot "afford" to produce the tones a Webb can---it will still be the benchmark of steel guitar tones!

James Quackenbush
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Post by James Quackenbush »

With Tom and Brad working together for the "better" , I'm sure that there will be no disapointments with the "newer" Webb ..
I can see only improvements here ....The idea of sending the amp with NO speaker and letting the customer decide also makes for a good mix of what people decide works best , and probably selling it for a lower price also makes a lot of sense.....Perhaps making a "head" version of the amp, with a multi ohm transformer, and a selectable ohm output would work well also ....Variety is the spice of life ....I'm happy to see that the Webb is not being one of the great jazz guitar and pedal steel amps to be forgotten ......They are too good to leave to the past .....Tom, good luck in your endeavor .....I'm sure Brad will contribute a lot to the success of this project .....Jim
Mike Vallandigham
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Post by Mike Vallandigham »

Friends:
Over the last few days, I've had an assortment of new Webb amplifiers and cabinets in my music room that were loaned
to my by Tom to try out. Here's what Tom sent me home with:

1. A new Webb 614-E head unit in the aluminum chassis
2. A new 15" speaker cabinet, w/ sealed aluminum cabinet w/ adjustable ports)
3. A Webb 614-E Combo with an E-130 JBL
4. A Webb 614-E Combo with the new Kappalite 15" by Eminence.

So basically, I had a 614-E head unit powering 3 different cabinet/speaker combinations. For reference, my normal amp is a 1980ish Fender Vibrosonic Reverb, w/ a Weber Ceramic California w/ aluminum dust cap).

First: I have to say all these rigs kicked butt, and I'd take any one of them if Tom would sell me one. Here are my conclusions:

My first "testing" was with a 614-E head connected to the JBL E-130 that was in a Webb standard wooden cabinet. (I start here for people who have this combination already). This sounded very nice, like one would guess. I noticed very "scooped" mids from the JBL, with nice round full clear bass and smooth creamy highs. Ever so slightly distressing to the ear (I like a crispy sound, and it's hard to get this sound and still have it still be smooth to the ear; not an easy task).
As a note: the JBL was in a combo cabinet, but without the amp head in it. It weighed about the same as a complete(head in it) 614-E combo with the new Eminence Kappalite speaker. So, in other words, the weight savings from the Kappalite amounted to about the weight of the entire head. NICE!

Second: I took a 614-E head unit and hooked it to a standard Webb wooden cabinet with the Eminence Kappalite. I agree with Tom that
this speaker sounds a lot like the JBL. The first thing I noticed was that the mids were not as scooped out, this was fixable mostly by just using the knobs on the amp. No
problem there. I found this speaker to be a little harsher on the highs than the JBL was, but to be fair, this speaker had only like 1-2 hours of playing time on it, i.e., not broken in at all. I'm a firm believer in breaking in speakers, you can't really judge one until it's good and used. That said, I told Tom that I'd gladly take the amp back home and break it in for him, you know, do him a favor Image The plusses of the Kappalite speaker, sonically speaking, were an increase in tight bass response and cutting mids. This speaker really honks in a good way, it's really "IN YO FACE" which I like.

Third: I then hooked the 614-E head to Tom's new aluminum-sealed back cabinet with the Eminence Kappalite. This cab has adjustable ports, which I didn't mess with. I left them completely closed so the cabinet was totally sealed. I thought this cab sounded the best by quite a bit. It had all the bass, mids, highs, all in crispy detail, and
NONE of the harshness of the same speaker in an open-back wooden cabinet. This surprised me. This cabinet rocked. It cut so deep and penetrated to the center of my brain. The
bass was very bell like, and the highs were smooth and creamy, still had that edgy treble quality that I had dialed into the amp, but it rounded any harshness out of
it. My ears loved it; so smooth, yet punchy, crispy, loud and honkin'.

So that's my input, and what a blast to have this opportunity. Thanks again Tom. I can't wait to get one. I'd go with the traditional single unit amp, w/ the Kappalite speaker in it; mostly because I don't need an amp broke into two units. However, the piggy-back head and the aluminum cabinet would probably be the sweetest sounding rig.

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Barry Blackwood
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Post by Barry Blackwood »

When did 'breaking in speakers' become necessary? I've played pro since the '60's and never encountered this practice until I read about it here recently .....
Stephen Gambrell
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Post by Stephen Gambrell »

Why does it HAVE to be the 614-E? I have a 614-CB, without that annoying EQ (Yes, I've tried both) and the circuitry is simpler, and from my understanding, Jim Webb preferred the amp with the EQ switched off!
Makes me wonder what'll hapen to the "pre-Bradshaw" Webb amp market. No offense, Tom. Best of luck with the new venture.
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Curt Langston
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Post by Curt Langston »

<SMALL>When did 'breaking in speakers' become necessary?</SMALL>
Barry, that is one of those things like "cabinet drop" (which most people did not even "here" until they "saw" a slight fragment of drop in the meter of a Korg, or strobe tuner) that is highly overrated. And over worried about.

Breaking in a speaker is supposed to soften the cone, and make the amp sound mellower or "sweeter". Some folks swear by it.

I say "Just play that thing, and quit worrying about it!"<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 21 September 2006 at 07:13 PM.]</p></FONT>
Mike Vallandigham
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Post by Mike Vallandigham »

Man, for sure speakers sound better after they're used a bit. But of course, it's not necessary to break one in...they work fine right out of the box. It's only common sense to think that a speaker w/ 1 hour on it wont be as flexible, soft and responsive as one that's been played for a long while.
I've experienced it first hand w/ a Weber Cali I put in my fender. At first, I thought I wasted 120 bucks, but now, after a year, oh baby. It's sound improved dramatically after about a month of playing every day.

I believe Tom is really thinking about Producing the other amp models. I think he's just starting with a run of 614-Es. I kept the EQ turned off also, but mainly because I only had the amps for 2 days. I wanted to find a likable tone, and then run the different cabs of it without changing settings. I fiddled w/ the EQ a bit, but figured it'd take some time getting used to it to benefit. But that in/out switch for the EQ section is smooth. Image

I agree completely w/ curt's last statement.

And, I believe there's plenty of markey for these amps, and it's my bet Tom will have no problem selling everything he can get put together.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Mike Vallandigham on 22 September 2006 at 08:11 AM.]</p></FONT>
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Greg Cutshaw
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Post by Greg Cutshaw »

My Webb 6-14-e was a great amp and one of the best for tone and reverb I ever owned. I always kept the EQ switched in but iwll admit the controls were not very responsive and dialing up different tones was time consuming and not very intuitive.

Why not offer a specail price for "breaking in" a speaker at the factory? That way you get the sound right out of the box.

Greg
Mike Vallandigham
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Post by Mike Vallandigham »

I'm sure Tom wont do that, nor does he need to, but Ted Weber of Weber speakers offers just that... They'll dope the speaker surround and break it in on some type of device that runs a certain range of frequencys thru it. Snake oil? I think not.

You guys are a tough crowd Image
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