new Tube pedal steel amp

[Dan Tyack]

James says

<SMALL>Since your tone is shaped more by the preamp section of an amplifier</SMALL>

I have found that the power amp section of a tube amp is equally important for 'that sound', especially if you like the sound of a tube amp being pushed. Not just flat out cranked, but something like the sound of a Twin on 3 and a half. Which sounds a lot better than a Twin on 2.

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www.tyack.com

[Steve Stallings]

I went down this road several months ago and wound up with a setup that is several things.
1. Heavy
2. Expensive
3. Amazing quality

I bought the VHT 2/90/2 which is two completely separate 90 watt all tube amps in a four rack unit design. I was using a Mesa Boogie Studio Pre until it fried. Now I'm using a Evans stereo pre with good results.

BTW... Peavey does make a great little tube amp for steel. It is the 50-212 Classic. I like mine a lot but use it mostly for regular guitar. I understand that two of these work great for steel.

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God Bless,
Steve Stallings

www.thenightshiftband.net

[chas smith R.I.P.]

I just picked up a THD Bi-Valve and I'm going thru the "what-does-this-tube-combination-do" phase. This thing has a lot of tonal variations with different tubes, drive levels and plate voltages.

[James Quackenbush]

Dan,
I have quite a few different amps/preamps/guitar amps in my home studio...I have tried a few different combinations...Out of every combination there is nothing quite like a tube preamp going into a tube amplifier...When you are talking a Twin on 3 the power amp tubes are really not doing much work at all...When the Twin is really turned up, then is when the power tubes are doing their work...I do agree with you however that a tube power amp adds to the tube tone...My statement is this ..If I have to choose between a tube pre w/solid state power amp as a amp to play thru, OOORRR a Solid State pre going thru a tube power amp, I will take the tube pre going thru the S.S. power amp 90% of the time...I have a MusicMan that has a solid state preamp, and a tube power amp section with 4 - EL34's ....The S.S. pre amp keeps things very clean, with lot's of clean headroom for LOUD playing....This amp to my ears sounds very solid state..It doesn't have that BIG bottom end, and it doesn't have the smooth,round, tube tone that only tubes can give you...Soon I will be putting in some circuitry so that I can bypass the the Solid State pre, and run whatever preamp I want into the tube power amp section...I would have to say that using a power amp with KT88's or 6550's is the way to go for a clean power amp tone for steel work ( or for guitar work for that matter) then chooseing the right tube preamp that has a great clean channel with plenty of headroom, and you will have some setup....Steve Stallings has the rig I would LOVE to own...Lot's of weight, lot's or money, but LOT"S of thick juicy tube tone !!...Jim

[Bob Hoffnar]

James,
Its interesting that I have found the opposite from you. I prefer a solid state pre amp with a tube power amp over a tube pre and solid state power.

I'm way into my THD BiValve and my 67 Fender Deluxe these days.

VHT has really pissed me off with there absolutely retarded "customer service".
Great sounding gear but they way they do business is absurd.

Bob

[Scott Swartz]

One of the big differences in tube vs solid state output stages is the damping factor, which is a measure of how tightly the output stage can "keep control" of the speaker.

For example, assume you measure a SS and a tube amp outputting 1 watt, and lets say there is 0.5% THD present at the output. Even though the distortion is identical, most people will hear a difference.

If you like the warm looser sound of tube output stages (as I do, and Dan and Bob seem to), and find solid state power amps to sound too tight (especially on the bass strings), this is the reason.

The high feedback in SS amps required to give reasonable distortion automatically give a very high damping factor, but there are tricks that can be applied to solid state amps to loosen them up while still keeping distortion low.

[James Quackenbush]

Bob,
I guess what we're seeing is "different strokes for different folks "... The solid state front end is too sterile sounding for me....There are a few solid state amps that have a some what tube tone, but not many...I do however respect your opinion, and if your setup works for you, then you can't ask for more than that... I do have a solid state preamp that I record with that has the BEST clean Blackface Fender tone of any amp or preamp I own...It's also the cheapest of 10 or so preamps that I own !!..Go figure...
This is a once in a lifetime situation though
It's sort of like an FMR RNC in comparison !

[William Johnson]

I bumped into this older thread and thought it was interesting.

What I have noticed with my steel amp rig is that a tube preamp does wonders for a SS amp. I use a Peavey TubeFex outputting into my Nashville 400 Amp Input on the rear (by-passing the NV400 front-end entirely). I think it's an excellent rig for steel, as it has somewhat of a tube sound, with the punch of a good SS amp, plus OK digital effects.

Last week my TubeFex died, so I had to go back to using the front-end of the NV400. Well, even though it sounded OK, it was not even close to the tone of the TubeFex as the front-end to the same amp section. The TubeFex is somewhat special (compared to most affordable guitar tube preamps) as it applies ~ 250V to the plate of the tubes (2 x 12AX7 I think). It's not the exact same tone a tube power amp, but it is excellent.

After saying that, I admit, I have never played a steel through a tube amp at stage volume levels, so I do wonder if it's 'fatness' begins to be a negative?

Who has also run a TubeFex into a SS amp? How does it compare to a good large tube guitar amp with equal effect?

Later,

billy

[Tim Marcus]

If soemoen were to market an all-tube amp, designed esp. for pedal steel,
Would there really be a market for this?
What features would ya'll want?
What type of current production speaker (so jbl d130's are out of the question ?
What wattage range(s)?
Tube reverb, efx loop for digital reverb, or both?
How much would one be willing to pay for a custom built, handwired amp?

these are the exact questions that went through my mind when I designed my amp not long ago! Lets see...

Is there a market for it? Yes, but very small
Features - less features the better for tone. Keep it single channel, simplify the layout, cut the fat
Speaker - we have neo 15's now!
Wattage - 85W via 4x6L6 is enough to melt just about anything.
Reverb - tube reverb of course! Lets not clutter up the signal path with solid state devices unless we have to!
Pricing - insanely expensive! My material cost is unbelievable, even after my wholesale pricing.

But how does a hand wired amp created out of the highest possible quality components and voiced specifically for pedal steel sound?

The answer: unbelievable! You've never even heard your steel until you take it to this extreme.