The Steel Guitar Forum

Bill,

Just one reaction to your post - Ahhhh! Nice job. This puts it all into perspective; at least for me. It fits my experience and apparently accounts for a wide variation in a lot of others as well.

But oops, I see you've removed the material from your post that I was commenting on. Anyway, glad I saw it before it disappeared.

Thanks, Bob<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bob Kagy on 01 August 2001 at 11:08 AM.]</p></FONT>

Bob,

Sorry the post disappeared. I "did the math" on the circuit after I put it up and as it turns out you'd need a huge inductance in the pickup coil to cause a high frequency rolloff. Something like 1/10th of a Henry. So, as intuitive as it might have seemed, it didn't pan out--so I retracted it. The circuit I drew is right, but it lacked the parasitic capacitances of the cables. If those get up near 100pF-200pF, they start becoming a problem in dulling the tone. Right now I can't see where else the issue would be coming from.

Here's a modified version of the drawing which includes the cable capacitances:



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<font size=-1>Bill (steel player impersonator) | MSA Classic U12 | Email | My music | Steeler birthdays | Over 50?</font>
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill Llewellyn on 02 August 2001 at 07:46 AM.]</p></FONT>

The big problem most players have with a pot-pedal is not using enough amp volume. The signal from the pickup is very weak, and going through more resistance than necessary (like when you set your amp volumes at "3") doesn't help the sound. I run my amps wide-open (or nearly so) and the tone improves dramatically.

Also (IMHO)...there's no "magic" in any volume pedal. They do basically the same thing as the volume control in your guitar, or the ones in the amp. The "increased sustain" that a lot of players experience with a powered pedal is due to the preamp that's in the pedal...nothing more. Having more available gain lets you compensate more for the natural decay of the signal. Turning up the amp does about the same thing.

But, if you're using a low-powered, low budget amp, the amplified pedal might give you more useable volume (power).<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 02 August 2001 at 03:24 PM.]</p></FONT>

I don't want to stray from the topic too much but maybe this is appropriate to ask now: Is there any difference (in taper or sound quality) for the 2 types of replacement pots currently available for volume pedals, the 500K Clarostat (Allen-Bradley type J) and the 500K Clarostat EJ or extended life pot. I think one has a shorter shaft than the other but my question is do they vary at all and how?
I'm thinking of replacing the pot in an old Sho-Bud pedal and I'm wondering which will sound and work the best. Thanks in adv.

Bob

In sound:
Hilton
In playing-comfort:
Fender
IMHO.
JJ

...I disagree, Johan...for playing comfort, it's Dr. Scholl's...

Hmmm.... I seem to remember the old early model Fender amps used pots in their so-called "tone" controls, but what each control actually did was attenuate (roll-off) certain frequency ranges. One pot for bass, one pot for mids, and one pot for highs. To not have any attenuation, all pots had to be full on. However, what I'm driving at is the fact that a variable resistor will give a certain amount of attenuation when coupled with capacitance (or inductance, or both) at some frequencies. Even though it may not be frequencies in the normal 20 - 20,000 Hertz, it may well affect certain harmonic frequencies which can effectively change the overall tonal characteristics we perceive through our ears. The human ear is quite remarkable, to say the least.

My apologies. I evidently started a separate thread on this topic at "Remote Volume Control." The tone loss is a solvable problem, folks. (For those interested, I have posted the circuit and notes for the DC-controlled volume pedal at: http://www.brainmapping.org/Steel/VCA.html<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Mark Cohen on 11 September 2001 at 11:08 PM.]</p></FONT>

Could anybody help me choose where the pedal goes in the line up between lapsteel output-separate preamp-amp input. Between lap and preamp volume increase seems linear, but lower. Between preamp and amp input volume overall level is higher, but seems to jump up noticably at about the halfway point. (Using RLBaggs Paracoustic solid state, Ernie Ball pot pedal, and one of two SS amps - California Blonde or Peavey KB100.)
N4DAG Dave Stehman

As a general rule, the volume pedal goes between the guitar and the input to the amp or preamp. This is the most common hookup. Some run from the guitar to effects and then to the volume pedal and some use the "3 cord" hookup with the Peavey amps (the guitar direct to the amp input and the volume pedal in the pre-eq effects loop).

Some of your problems may be the value of the pot in the volume pedal. Most "guitar" pedals use a 250K pot, and all pot type steel guitar pedals use a 500K Clarostat type J pot.