MIDI steel now available

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 12 May 2000 10:31 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Can't play steel or keyboards without
'DILUTION'. Just ask Sammy Gibson.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hunh?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 12 May 2000 10:38 am

I just heard Bobbe Seymour playing a string section using a MIDI lap steel. It sounds very, very real. Makes me want to add a MIDI pickup to my Sierra Laptop.

Bobbe's tracks are part of "Bobby Seymour's Masters Sessions", which I'll me adding to the Forum CD catalog within the next few days (send us $16 for your copy

). The MIDI backup is behind none other than the immortal Jimmy Day. It's only on a few tracks, but what a lush sound! The liner notes say that he ran the MIDI lap steel into two Proteus Orchestral samplers.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0bstamp.gif" width=72 height=72>Bobby Lee quasar@b0b.com gigs CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra S-8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6)

Eddie Stephens · Post by **Eddie Stephens** » 15 May 2000 6:31 pm

I am currently using an IVL Steelrider. I think it works pretty well. I have only been using it live for about 6 months or so.
I think that it tracks pretty well. It certainly is challenging in regards to your picking technique and your bar placement. I also play midi guitar and feel that this just opens up a whole new world of sounds.
And besides all of that,how many drunks have been calling you the piano player anyway? Go ahead and make em' right.

Michael Brewer · Post by **Michael Brewer** » 2 Mar 2001 7:52 pm

I have been playing an IVL Steel Rider for ten years now. I bought two of them just in case I had problems and I have never been sorry about that. However, they are getting old and none of the major manufacturers are interested in producing anything for steel players. As a result, I am developing a pickup for ten and twelve string guitars. It will be compatible with Roland, Yamaha and Axon converters. I am making chips now and should have a decent unit for demonstration at the St. Louis show this year. Maybe even sooner.

I have tried a lot of synthesizers and have never found one I like better than my old Roland U-110 with four sound cards. I also use a Kurzweil K-2000R when I am able to set up and leave the equipment overnight. There are some fine sounds available for the K-2000R but using two synths requires a midi patch bay if you are going to switch between the two on the same tune. Just more equipment to haul around.

I have had a lot of time together with my Steel Rider and I may be able to help with some of the problems which occur with these units. Just let me know.

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Mike Brewer

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 2 Mar 2001 8:25 pm

Hi, with regard to the question about using the midi to creat "TAB"
Just play the midi into a prog. like "Logic Audio" and set up the guitar notation and tab parameters for the tuning used, and hit print.
As for as the comments regarding the unavailability of the "John Birch" system except fitted on a MSA guitar, this is definitley NOT so. John Birch guitars will supply the system for self-instalation, but recomend factory instalation (And rightly so as this is a VERY specialized job)

Alas John Birch died late last year, he was a long time personal friend and a great loss to the guitar community. He made some of the very best hand built electric guitars and his pick-ups were quite spectacular.Most of the top echelon of the rock and pop genre in the UK had at least one JB special at one time or another.
The very first pick-ups he made were for my Fender 1000 and were featured on all the recordings and broadcasts with the "Waikiki Islanders"
John himself was a great lover of Hawaiian music and had an extensive collection of early 78's.
Irrespective of what might be said, his system does work.... and with less problems than preceeding manufactuers efforts.
check out http://www.johnbirchguitars.demon.co.uk/
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Basil Henriques
Emmons D-10 1970
and
Emmons D-10 1970 "Anniversary"
1949 "Leilani"
1939 Dickerson
RICKENBACKER "Olde Uglie" Twin 8
"Fender 1000"
"Gibson 3x8 Electraharp"

Steel players do it without fretting

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~basilhenriques/

http://www.stax-a-trax.com/

[This message was edited by basilh on 02 March 2001 at 08:34 PM.]

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 3 Mar 2001 7:54 am

I've read this renovated thread with interest but one thing has not been brought up. Part of the reason that the steel has not been a popular 5th. piece in the band is the fact that most steelers can't fit the steel into non-country forms without modifying it's timbre ala MIDI. One glaring exception would be Paul Franklin playing with Dire Straits. He's shown us that the pure steel tone can be used in nearly all genres. Also, does anybody with the MIDI gear experiment extensively with different tones, rather than slavishly just imitate another already established instrument, like a piano or string section? I have nothing about this line of experimentation, just some random ideas to throw in.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 3 Mar 2001 9:16 am

Good News Mike! You can put me on your mailing list for when this p/up is available. I am definitely interested in exploring the midi possibilities on steel. Please keep us posted.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Mar 2001 11:16 am

By the way, I've reduced the price of the Bobbe Seymour record to $15. Click here.

Someone asked in email if MIDI can make a steel sound like a fiddle. I don't think so. I've never heard a good MIDI fiddle. String sections, yes, but a solo fiddle is pretty hard to emulate.

I'm moving this topic to Electronics.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (E9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 3 Mar 2001 5:58 pm

Great news Michael, and thanks! I too use the IVL Steel Rider and worry what I'll do if/when it dies. I've heard of a lot of IVL MIDI steel pickups dying, and since they're sealed in epoxy, can't be repaired. Any chance you'll be making some replacement pickups for the IVL?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 3 Mar 2001 6:33 pm

I have heard a couple string-based synthesizers. The strings and horns and woodwinds are quite good. But, the piano leaves a lot to be desired. Not because of the sound, but because of the limitations we steelplayers have. You see, we steelplayers can only play lead or rhythm. Very, very few can do both at once (a la Bobby Garrett). So, at best, a steel-synth will sound more like a "one-handed" piano player.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 3 Mar 2001 9:53 pm

A simple Travis style picking pattern w/alternating bass on any number of 7th or other dominant chords on either neck will,with a decent piano patch,produce a nice comping figure sounding like at least a hand and a half on piano.Using the "boo-wah pedal on C6 or a universal and getting a Dom7#9 chord with the same picking pattern will produce a nice Leon Russell type blues vamp.Regular old country E9 playing will give you a nice Floyd Cramer style piano.A lot depends of course on the quality of your sound module.People often come up to me and say that my Sierra sounds wonderful as a midi controller.And I always try to explain that all the sound is coming from this Roland unit in my rack - and of course they always reply "Yeah......well......anyway like I was saying,your Sierra really sounds good as a midi controller." BTW,sign me up for one of your pickups - and make mine a 12 string. -MJ-

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 3 Mar 2001 10:38 pm

I've had an IVL Unit for about 6-7 years now and also use a Roland U220 and a Digital Music MX8 Midi Patch Bay. It has been fun to toy with but I continued to sound like a steel guitarist trying to sound like a piano (or sax or whatever patch I was using at the time). This was entirely my fault as I never really learned to phrase like the insturment that I was trying to emulate. I did check out the Axon unit at the NAMM show 2 years ago and was very impressed but, after working with them for awhile, hit a stumbling block regarding converting the IVL pickup to the Axon in's (which I'd have to get two of) so I decided to shelve the idea for awhile. The problem is that the steel market is incredibly small relative to other musical instruments and the subset of midi-interested steel players being a fraction of that number makes business oriented folks realize that it would be a foolish pursuit economically. Consequently it will take folks like Michael Brewer who are interested for the challenge of it all to make inroads for us all. By the way- the MSA that was developed with the Birch system used to belong to Gerry Walker.

Dennis Boyd · Post by **Dennis Boyd** » 4 Mar 2001 12:58 pm

Mr. Brewer,
Could you make one for a Sierra 14-stringer?
It sounds like the orders on these pickups are being placed. You might be able to make some money. Good luck.

Dennis

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » 5 Mar 2001 3:16 pm

Mr. Brewer,
Sign me up too, when you've got some info or product. May enjoy jumping back in the midi-water,
Thanks!
Floyd

Michael Brewer · Post by **Michael Brewer** » 8 Mar 2001 5:25 pm

I probably won't get rich doing this. The materials are not cheap and constructing the magnet/coil assemblies is labor intensive. However, it is a lot of fun and if I can help promote midi steel guitar it is worth it. I'll keep you posted with regular progress reports.

Mike Brewer

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Mike Brewer

Michael Brewer · Post by **Michael Brewer** » 12 Mar 2001 4:24 pm

As I promised, this is my first progress report on midi pickups. I now have drawings completed and out for bids from various electronic manufacturers. The pickup will be approx. 9mm wide and 7mm thick. This should fit on most guitars. If the guitar pickup is too close, an inverted mounting bracket can be used. String spacing will be 8mm which I think is pretty standard on most guitars.

For those who have Steel Riders, I have had my pickup x-rayed and I plan to try and duplicate it. This will have to wait until I get the others into production.

After looking at the x-rays, I have the feeling that most of your problems are with the pre-amps at the pickup. I haven't researched them yet but more than likely the existing pre-amps can still be purchased off the shelf. They don't look too difficult to replace.

That's all for this report. I'll try to do this again next week.

Mike Brewer

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Mike Brewer

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 12 Mar 2001 4:57 pm

Mike, from what I've seen and heard from Chuck Abend, IVL used the same fine pickup wires to run from the bobbins to the preamp. Here's part of one of his emails:

The fine enameled wire is a fine wire twisted from each bobbin coil, thru the wire harness to the preamps. If you move them a few times such as bending the harness, the wires break inside, rendering the unit unrepairable.

The pickups he makes, of which I have the last one until/unless he can come up with more parts, uses thicker wire from the bobbins to the preamp. He also covers the pickup with heat shrink tubing instead of epoxy so it can be repaired if it's ever necessary.

Michael Brewer · Post by **Michael Brewer** » 12 Mar 2001 6:05 pm

Jim,

After studying an x-ray of my IVL pickup, I think I disagree with Chuck. In my pickup the coil wires are soldered to a printed circuit board. It looks like the wire through the cable is AWG 28 which should take some punishment before breaking. I believe most of the problems are in the preamps in the little black boxes at the pickup. I have suggested to many that they check the IC numbers on the preamps and try finding a replacement at their electronics supplier. Although the wires are fine (.002} coming off the bobbins, they are encapsulated with some pretty stiff stuff. At least my pickup is very firm and difficult to deflect.

As soon as I receive the magnets I have ordered, I am going to try to reproduce my 12 string IVL pickup. This requires me to create a drawing of the PC board and have some made. After that, all I need to do is wind some bobbins and wire them to the board. I am probably looking at about $750 to get 20 boards. The magnets are going to cost me about $.50 each with a $250 tooling setup fee.

Sometime in the future I may be able to supply replacement pickups for the IVL units.

Mike Brewer

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Mike Brewer

Michael Brewer · Post by **Michael Brewer** » 13 Mar 2001 8:58 am

In order to duplicate the IVL pickup, I must create a drawing of the PC board. It would help if I had a dead pickup, ten or twelve. The preamps are not needed as yet. Anyway I have mine to look at. If anyone knows of or wants to sell a dead one, please contact me off line.

Thanks,

Mike Brewer
228-255-7675

Thanks,

Mike Brewer

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Mike Brewer

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 15 Mar 2001 3:06 am

I'm closing this thread since a new, shorter, thread has been opened on this subject.