My first real failure

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 18 Jul 2003 11:48 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I was thinking the same thing.

Guys, I've never given up on a piece before, no matter how difficult, but this is different. To repeat, the problem isn't that I can't play the parts, but that no matter what I do, it just doesn't sound good.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...well, you should have expected responses of this nature when you posted this topic, Mike.

What kind of topic would it have been if you said <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I've done everything I can think of to save it, but no matter what I did, when it reaches the point of the hailstorm, it really sounds like crap.

I've given up on it and have begun work on another piece to replace it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

..and then you got 20 or 30 honest responses that said...

"OK"

"I agree, that sucks...dump it."

"Yup"

"That stinks alright."

"Forget it, you'll never get it right."

"You should have used a push pull."

...sorry, Mike, but once you posted it, you opened it up for all of us Monday Morning Mozarts to tell you how to salvage it, whether you want to or not...

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 18 Jul 2003 2:18 pm

Before I erase the tape. if anybody want's a cassette, I can run a few off.

Let me know.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 18 Jul 2003 9:06 pm

This is funny... Mike started this post saying that he had given up, and we all want to finish it.

No co-dependents in this group...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Jul 2003 3:47 am

Let's see...you're trying to use the steel guitar to make music that will approximate a hailstorm? While that's kind of a "far-out-acid-trip-inspired" type of thing, Here's how I would do it. I wouldn't approach it musically as most musicians would, except for some very low bass lines (think "Jaws" vs. "The Earl-King") to give the piece a semblance of structure. "The hail" should be done on a steel guitar tuned to a slightly out-of-tune augmented chord (to impart the sense of danger, or a nervous-pensive feeling). Use no pedals! The strings should be muted at first, and then less muted as the storm intensifies, but never ringing with their usual full sustain. Bar movement should be random, and quick (with no gliss), but you don't want a whole lot of changes. (You want the different augmented chords to be analogous to the listener glancing in differing directions while viewing the spectacle of the storm.) You obviously can't play this correctly with picks...so use one or two gallons of BB's poured (slowly, at first) over the muted strings, allowing a few to hit the pickup, as well. (Not too many, or they will build up there and ruin the effect.) The cacaphonous crescendo should be reached fairly early in the piece, as the atmospheric events that precipitate (no pun intended) a hailstorm generally happen very quickly. Unless you live in a cave, sound levels that accompany a hailstorm of serious proportion roughly approximate being 30 feet from Niagra Falls...the sound approaching the threshold of pain (120db?).

For your listener's sake, try to keep it a little lower.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 Jul 2003 4:26 am

Mike... DON'T ERASE THE TAPE...
put it on the shelf. Come back to it later... and have another look FRESH.

It is never a good idea to erase 95% of something because your stuck on the last 5%
Trust me you will likely regret it later.

Maybe some of us will do a hailstorm section and you can have a "guest cacaphonist" on one track. I maye take a stab at it, who knows.

I would like a cassette if your doing them.

Recluse · Post by **Recluse** » 19 Jul 2003 6:27 am

Mike: my 2 cents agree with Pat Burns. To me the primary sound of a hail storm is the heavy drone and the individual percussive sounds are lost. I would try to get the dense sound right first and then add the percussion. I haven't heard the piece but I think 4 guitars would have as much trouble as you are having. They can't possibly play enough notes. The transition from ticks to drone to ticks could be controlled in the mix. you might be able to create the drone with electronics.
maybe start with the hum from a fragile amp) Above all : save the work you have completed because some day you will screw some other piece up and hear your solution
Have fun
Steve Bailey

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 19 Jul 2003 7:44 am

Mike was working from a composed piece of music, it was not Mike's special effects album, so suggestions on sound effects seem somewhat moot, although a nice thought.

He's moved on, maybe we could learn something from that.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 19 Jul 2003 8:36 am

Yeah, but he doesn't HAVE to be a slave to the way the composer originally composed it. He can do whatever the hell he wants to with it.

My suggestion (not that you asked): Have some fun with it. Put it out to the steel guitar community and solicit submissions of sample tapes or CD-Rs with each player's best shot at doing it. First post a clip of what we're shooting for. Then let guys like Donny Hinson and Ernest Bovine have at it. Maybe they will figure this out for ya! Then you can either ask them to show you how they did that,or you can work with them to get a track to mix in with the rest of your piece, and list them as a guest artist on the CD. It's a contest! And the grand prize will be... (fill in the blank, Mike).

Before you give up, ask the brotherhood/sisterhood for assistance. Then if you "fail", we all "fail" together! (Failing alone is a drag, doncha think?)

[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 19 July 2003 at 09:37 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Jul 2003 11:03 am

Failing alone is a drag...

Yes, but it's much less deprecating than failing in public, or in front of your peers!

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 Jul 2003 11:52 am

For what it's worth, I don't think I failed. I successfully recorded as much of the piece as I care to, and I could finish it is a couple of days if I chose. I think the piece itself fails as something that can ple played on a steel guitar.

The failure on my part would be to finish it and include it on the CD, where it would truly stand out as the worst sounding thing I've ever done.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 19 Jul 2003 12:48 pm

I think it was a dumb idea to start with. Steel guitars are for country music, especially 4/4 shuffles, not "fooling with Mother Nature." Mike, go to St. Louis, and hang out at the Emmons booth. Trust me. No more trying to play a rainstorm, OK?
And I don't think I'd try to carry that stuuf on a plane, these days.

Geoff Brown · Post by **Geoff Brown** » 19 Jul 2003 3:58 pm

Moving on is fine, and only you know when the time is right for that to happen. I would advise strongly against erasing the tape. What you are unable to attain at this time may find itself squarely in your midst down the road. Seems to me that half the fun of creating a piece is the journey that gets you to your destination. I'd be inclined to keep your unfinished work every bit as much as I would something that was complete. Life is full of untapped potentials and revelations. Obviously you're very close to this piece at this moment. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't have bothered posting about it. All the more reason to leave it alone, put it on a shelf, and move on. Tape is easily replaced, the ideas recorded are not.[This message was edited by Geoff Brown on 19 July 2003 at 05:05 PM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 Jul 2003 4:39 pm

Steel guitars are for country music, especially 4/4 shuffles, not "fooling with Mother Nature."

You're right Steve. I hereby promise to give up all thoughts of playing either classical music or rock and roll, and promise never to play anything that wasn't sung by Ray Price.

As I write this, I'm dubbing a Dat of the piece in question. I'll have cassettes available in a day or 2. I've also included rough mix of a 2nd piece that came out well, so you can hear the difference.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 19 Jul 2003 6:30 pm

Mike...GOOD LUCK!