The Steel Guitar Forum

The stuff coming out of Nashville, for my ear, I don't care for - just my opinion, I'm sure it is good, just not my choice. I do however agree with Price's analogy, it does sound like rock and roll. I thank God I have the privledge of working with a real traditional country band who practices the fine art of country music. Just my .02 worth!
John Buffington
Mullen Guitars, Webb Amps

A thought just occurred to me---The steel players at what steel shows I've taken in surely stray from traditional country with many numbers and for some reason, we don't notice that in the same light as we do vocal recordings. Why is that ? Is it just the love of the instrument that over rides the traditional country thing ? I mean about all of us like to hear things like "Girl From Ipanema" "Sleep Walk" "Take The A Train" etc etc etc but I for one wouldn't care to hear any of those types of songs sang at the same show.

Wayne, Where is Big In Iowa from? Could it be that since we are steel players we are biased when it comes to our preference in music. If we were piano players would we feel the same if there was no piano in a song? Just a thought.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

Tim, I didn't say that everything that was coming out of Nashville was crap. What I was referring to are the tunes that sound like watered down rock n'roll . Most of this stuff doesn't have steel or fiddle on it, and if it does it is used in a patronizing way. You are correct
in saying that if it was marketed under a different name that it wouldn't bother country music fans as much as it does. It seems that when the country music industry grows, a lot of pop music starts to get marketed under the guise of country. A lot of this music (not all of it) is written for the sole purpose of making money (hence the term "cookie cutter music") and,IMHO, tunes that fit this criteria have no artistic value. In the past, when a boom in the country music industry starts to fade, Nashville gets back to its country roots. That doesn't seem to be happening this time and that bothers me. I would hate to see a legitimate art form like Traditional Country Music go by the wayside.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bob Watson on 05 March 2003 at 07:36 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bob Watson on 05 March 2003 at 07:40 PM.]</p></FONT>

I'm with John Buffington. Jody.

Craig, "Big In Iowa" is from Cincinnati. I understand they were big in Iowa hence the name. "Red Meat" from San Francisco is also a good band.
It's funny how different people think different entertainers are country or not. When I was growing up I thought Conway Twitty was way country. I didn't know he started out as a rockabilly star. My wife hates him. I really love Maddox Brothers and Rose and Freakwater but my wife doesn't like either of those.

One song can sum it up for me: Ray Price's recording of "Please Talk To Your Heart"

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn www.kevinfowler.com

Born in 1951, I grew up on Daddy's ranch with a bunch of old coot's, therefore I was raised on Jimmie Rodgers, Gene Autry, Tom Mix, and the like. Their music still appeals to me.
The oldest album I have in my salvaged collection is a Burl Ives vinyl that has several old old civil war era tunes on it that he covered.
That's about as 'Country' as it gets... IMO
But then again, my opinion and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee.

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"Stump"Reeves

<SMALL>I thought Conway Twitty was way country. I didn't know he started out as a rockabilly star. My wife hates him.</SMALL>

Uh oh, Don't let Gene Jones see that! Too Late... he must've seen it when I was editing this!<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David Reeves on 06 March 2003 at 06:14 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David Reeves on 06 March 2003 at 06:26 AM.]</p></FONT>

...(Wayne)...When I was growing up I thought Conway Twitty was way country. I didn't know he started out as a rockabilly star...

He didn't start out as a rockabilly star...he had been country his entire life until that brief era when "Rock" was the only thing that was selling.... www.genejones.bizland.com/conway.htm

For R B....that's Cline..one time years ago we were at a church in Salida, Calif with our little gospel group and this fellow who was a few french fries shy of a happy meal told us his favorite singers were Catsy Plane and Rim Jeeves...in spite of that, I'll bet even HE knew what real country was. Two more cents worth.

Two words.
Buck Owens.
Even though I didn't like him much, I have a great amount of respect for his attitude, and artistic approach. A true loose cannon.

I have HUGE respect for anyone, doing any kind of music, that's not "cookie cutter"

One of my biggest (living) Heros? Brian Setzer. He's taking a very rough road, and still having a blast making superb music.

Passed away? Danny Gatton, The greatest of the greatest. God rest your soul Danny...

And BR549 is just about as cool as it gets.
Cant stand to listen to "country" radio anymore. For that matter, just about anything at all on the radio when it comes to music. Sad Days.

Rant mode off.
Thanks for the space to vent.
-andy-

Gene, I didn't all the history on Conway Twitty. Thanks for the info, nice website too! I got to see Conway perform in the late 70's at a place called "Holiday Beach" in Douglas, Georgia. Quite a show.

"Real" country music is any country song that I don't change stations when it comes on the air. And I've never heard more than one verse on most of today's "country" that is aired.

I Am With You All The Way Jimmie. SONNY at Age 68. SHO-BUD And ZUMSTEEL.

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SONNYPRIDDY

Whatever happened to the Western in Country Music? Seems like it used to be called Country and Western. I agree with David Reeves that real country music is the Cowboy Campfire Songs Like Roy Roggers,And my brand new CD by the Sons of The Pioneers

Sho~Bud LDG Nash 1000

Patrick wrote,

"Seems like it used to be called Country and Western"

While this did happen in certain places across the land, the term was never really nationwide. The following are the facts as I recall them:

Back in the 40's there were basically 3 kinds of music that concerns this discussion:

1. Hillbilly

2. Western (which many called "Cowboy")

3. Popular (They abhored both the above, particularly hillbilly music!)

During the late 50's and 60's, the "hillbilly" stigma was simply too much for stars like Eddy Arnold, etc. to deal with. Engagemtents by these stars at places like Carnegie Hall put them in dire straights psychologically.

Also, "cowboy" music was often associated (wrongly IMO) with hillbilly music). This included stars like Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, Tex Ritter, etc. I personally hated this music because most (like the Sons of the Pioneers), rarely used a steel and if they did, it was the ole "pick and slide up one fret" dingy like Gene Autry's player.

So, those in the power, decided to do something about it. There had already been a small insurgence with the coined "Rockabilly" title. As a result of the new kid on the block, "Elvis" debacle. But it really never took off (in name).

When the term "country" was adopted by the mostly Nashville bunch, there was a cry and yell from the "western" folks. Particularly on the west coast. This included the "western swing" group. Because most of these had NOT indeed hailed from the "country". And there has always been some competitivenss between "the Nashville" boys and western swingers.

So, while Country was more or less the unofficial "official" answer to the hillbilly stigma, there was some inroads with the "appeased" phrase "Country and Western".

But it really never become nationwide. So the term Country and Western just more or less faded. It is still used and said by some. But rarely is it ever said in officialdom. In addition, most marketers will tell you that a one word phrase is always preferable to multiple words. IE, coke, Tacos, Beetle (Volksvagen), Emmons', etc, etc.

Or that is my recollection. I stand corrected if any the above is in error.

carl

I don't care if it was recorded in 1953 or 2003 - it's all a contrivance, and a commercial gambit.

There may be more money around in 'country music' nowadays, but that's because it's evolved along with all the various media that are exploited in its promotion, and has embraced a broader demographic in the process.

Don't tell me that Hank Williams, Lefty Frizzell, Merle and all the rest weren't in it for the money - I won't buy that. Guys of my age (60) and older grew up with that stuff, so we love it, and we understandably feel nostalgic about it. I'm pleased there's Dale Watson and Justin Trevino doing the 'retro' music - I love it - but we're not putting it on the charts, are we?

As for the current output, Joe Nichols' 'Brokenheartsville' sounds pretty good to me - he has a pleasing vocal style, he's good-looking (just like all those older guys I mentioned earlier used to be!), and it's played beautifully. Plenty of steel, too - sounds country to me. A little smoother than it used to be, but that's not a crime. I like AJ, too. I admit there aren't many that I'm crazy about, but there weren't many as good as Merle in his day, either, and it's unrealistic to pretend that it was all wonderful music forty or so years ago.

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Roger Rettig

The country umbrella is large. Most of the Nashville acts are getting drenched, however. Just a fiddle or a steel guitar doesn't define what real country music is or Dave Matthews and Pink Floyd would be considered in the family. Yet I've heard The Derailers many times without their steel player, and it didn't stop me from Honky Tonkin.' I do think that REAL is the keyword here. Most of the clear channel country music (Top 40) isn't real at all, period. Rock and Roll isn't in good shape overall either. I've never got the opportunity to play at an "enlisted men's club on a military" post, but there were several so called country acts pushing that Tim McGraw, Kenny Chesney on us poor music starved infantrymen at 1/9 INF, in South Korea . . . for a year! Literally made me sick. Inspired me to put down the rifle and pick up the steel. Just in time too. By the way, "The Return of Wayne Douglas" by Doug Sahm is a wonderful "real" country light in the midst of all this pseudo country blackness. Tommy Detamore is such the real deal, and I would encourage everyone to check out his beautiful and inspiring playing. Don't forget about Sneaky Pete either. 2 cents.

aaron (27)

Labeling music is always hard and some people think that it's not right at all.
I consider Ray Price country music but I also consider Jimmie Rodgers (1930s) country music too. Some people would consider Price "lounge music", some people would consider Rodgers "blues" or maybe "hillbilly"? They are both a little outside of the country "umbrella" (thank you for the term), but I still like them and consider them country.
I don't know what country IS all the time but I sure as heck can tell you what it IS NOT.
For instance:
1.No matter how you stretch it, steel/fiddle or no, Shania Twain, the booty-booty queen is not country music. I don't think REAL country musicians have to have their voices processed like that OR have to shake their cans to get attention.
2.Any country musician who has to put French word "MOI" in his music is not country.
3.Whoever has to fly across the stage on hang wires like Michael Jackson is NOT country.

IMHO,
hahahaha.
Melinda<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Melinda Dauley on 07 March 2003 at 05:26 PM.]</p></FONT>

I play both kinds of music, Country and Western!

When I think of "country music" people like Bobby Helms, Hank Locklin and Lefty come to mind. Why is it that if some of the "new artists" were to record some of the old country standards then that would be country music? Is it the words of the song or the artist?
When I hear George Strait do "Honky Tonk Blues" it is still country. What would that song be like if Hank would have had the back up music George has?
I knew things were going down hill when a "beer joint" became a tavern.When is the last time you heard the term "beer joint"? Could this be a new topic?? Bennie

I have Grand Ole Opry tapes for 1946-48 where Red Foley introduces Eddy Arnold as America's #1 favorite FOLK SINGER, ready to sing you another wonderful FOLK BALLAD. His frequent use of the term "HILLBILLY MUSIC"
was considered "then" to be a category NOT a put-down. COUNTRY and WESTERN music was the category I was always involved in. Those were the days..........when you could recall the melody the first time you heard it.

Alright, Melinda!!! Very well said!

Dont leave Mr. Roy Acuff out on this "COUNTRY MUSIC", he sat the stage, wrote the songs . Way Back In The Hills, still make the hair on the back of my neck stand up, with Bro/ Oswald singing high tenor.

Todays country may or may not be crap,but i dont like it so I dont listen to it. I can always find some good music ,on my C D s .

R. L

COUNTRY MUSIC,, per se , has rvolved over the years ,Yes Melinda ,Jimmy rodgers, Before him an Opera singer, Marion Trye Slaughter , used a pen name Vernon Dalhart, (both names for Texas towns ) was the popular country singer, sang mostly ballads . This music was once called hillbilly music. Then refined to country music. Mr. Bill Monroe added a little ,overdrive to one segment of it and called it Bluegrass. It`s still hillbilly or Mountain music.

Aint it strange ;;Everyone has his own slant on it, COUNTRY MISIC

R. L .