The Steel Guitar Forum

Paul, I fully agree with you that bitterness can hold a person back in life. I too have went through times of bitterness and they were the most miserable times in my life. Don't get me wrong I am proud of my upbringing but I'm not thin-skind though. The main reason for this post was to find out where people really stood. This was also not the case to run down new country music. I have a great deal of respect for you as a musician and I miss the days at the Spoke when you would stop by and set in. I'm just saying in essance that we need to all try and get along but when you start stepping on toes somebody going to get a sore foot. I hope I have made my position clear on this matter. Have a nice rainy day. Mike

------------------

Paul,

It's <rolleyes>, not <rollingeyes>. And it's "facetious" (I hope, 'cuz I'm not looking it up ).

Steve,

I agree with you. By the strict definition, I'm certainly not a redneck. In fact, I'd probably fit closer to yuppie.

Kevin,

Yes, people seem to be quite easily offended these days by names like redneck, yuppie, etc. It's because there's all those negative (offensive, to quote the dictionary) connotations that somehow get associated with the words. I prefer to think that people are NOT using the words in a deragotory manner, unless other actions or words clearly indicate that they are doing so.

Theresa,

It seems that no matter how eloquently one tries to "defend" the new country sound, somebody always will get offended. Even when that's not the intent. (At least I assume that's not your intent -- you seem to have the same attitude as I, and I certainly don't intend to offend).

It's a good thing I've got relatively thick skin, else I might be offended at all those b@njo jokes!

------------------
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

Let's face it it is permissible to insult certain groups without any consequence. Jeff Foxworthy took it all the way to the bank. If you defend your position you are condemned.

Redneck smedneck,When I was in the Military and in the Big toilet (Nam) a bunch of us use to sit around when we could with this old Kay guitar .they would do their blues,rock stuff and I would do my C/W and they branded me Hillbilly,redneck,S**Tkicker.I never took offense then and wouldn't now. Whats in a name? Paul it's just colon rolleyes colon.

------------------
CJC

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 23 September 2000 at 10:06 AM.]</p></FONT>

<SMALL>Jeff Foxworthy took it all the way to the bank.</SMALL>

Are there people who are offended by Jeff Foxworthy's "redneck" jokes? (I guess there probably are).

If he "gets away with it" (and I think he does, for the most part), it's because he portrays himself as the "ultimate redneck" himself. I suppose it's OK to poke fun at one's own heritage. Also, he doesn't do this with any malicious intent.

It's usually pretty clear whether a term like "redneck" is being used in a merely descriptive (yet obviously stereotypical) way, or is meant to be an insult. So far, I think the use in this forum of the term has been the former.

------------------
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

<SMALL>and they branded me Hillbilly,redneck,S**Tkicker.I never took offense then and wouldn't now.</SMALL>

I'm with you, Joe. I'd take it as a compliment.

------------------
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

Hey David we go one step higher in the food chain,you an I are "TEXAS REDNECKS"") Ray

And speaking of "name-calling" (at the risk of beating a dead horse), let me relate a story from just over 10 years ago.

I was at the local music store, looking for a digital piano / keyboard. While playing one, a black man (probably 5 years my junior) came over we struck up a conversation. (He wasn't a salesman, just a customer like myself).

Somehow I mentioned that I had a hard time playing one rhythm with the left hand against a different one with the right hand. He seemed surprised, and said that anybody can do it. He had me play one thing with the left, then another with the right. And then had me (try) to combine them.

No matter how he tried to help, I just couldn't get it done (and can't do much better today). He finally just looked at me and said "you're just too White".

I took no offense at that. Even though it's stereotypical, it wasn't meant in a mean-spirited way at all. I just chuckled and said "I guess you're right".

On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't have felt comfortable turning that around and saying "I'm just not Black enough" (assuming he had never made his comment). Why? I'd be too afraid that somebody might have taken offense.

I would never have thought that saying "redneck" here would offend some people.

------------------
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

<SMALL>Hey David we go one step higher in the food chain,you an I are "TEXAS REDNECKS"</SMALL>

Ray, are you sure that's HIGHER?

Technically, I'm from Oklahoma (born, raised, and college-educated in Norman, OK). But I got to Texas just as fast as I could. (With only a few years spent in Lousiana).

And, no, I don't watch OU football anymore. What's the point, since they don't run the WishBone offense anymore? Now they're just "another team".

------------------
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

The term redneck does NOT offend me when used in the propper context. What offends me[for the last time] is the thinking that only us old ignorrant,bare-footed,uneducated hillbillies like country music and it took the new breed of producers musicians and singers to make the rest of the world take notice. Well like I said before, I worked outside enough to earn my redneck and I'm not ashamed of it. So many people on here think I'm running down the music of today and that is not the case. I'm just saying that the attitude of [if you like this you're a hick and you're stupid] is wrong and I went through it in school. But while those other boys were in the garage trying to get in tune I was making money playing country music. I don't care what someone likes that is their right, so don't pigeon-hole everyone just because of what they listen to. Mike

------------------

<SMALL>What offends me[for the last time] is the thinking that only us old ignorrant,bare-footed,uneducated hillbillies like country music and it took the new breed of producers musicians and singers to make the rest of the world take notice.</SMALL>

Mike,

I don't know who you're "accusing" (I'd use a less strong word, but I don't have my thesaurus handy) of thinking that. I can assure you that I don't think that way at all (at least the first part -- see PS concerning the second part).

What drives the type of music on country radio is what sells. (Or, more correctly, what "they" think will sell best).

Apparently, there's a bigger market (or it's perceived there's a bigger market) for the music being played today than there is for the more "traditional" sounds. It has nothing to do with being "uneducated hillbillies" -- it's all about the money.

Example: classical music doesn't get much airplay at all. Is it because "they" think that only snobbish "yuppies" listen to that type of music? I don't think so. It's just that there aren't enough listeners to support it at the same level as pop, rock, or country. The same goes for jazz.

Bottom line: I like some of the old stuff, and I like some of the new stuff. Radio plays some stuff I don't like. There are plenty of artists out there for whose music I don't particularly care. But there's not much I can do about that. Other than buying the CD's of those I like, and not buying the CD's of those I don't.

PS: It DID take a new type of sound to get SOME listeners to "notice". My wife wouldn't give country music a second look, until some of the new artists came along. I think that's a good thing. Granted, it takes away from the airplay of some of the great "old stuff", too. That's bad.

If only they'd put ME in charge of what gets airplay and what doesn't. Then I'd be a happy man. Of course, the rest of the world might not be so happy.

------------------
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

Ya know what, we got kicked out of "Oldforum" because we were too contentious and we scared some of the straights. Some of y'all are WAY more uncivil than we ever were! That being said, however, here we go again with yet another thread about the old versus new country. I listen to MUSIC, and I don't pay a hell of a lot of attention to the label. I start off the day with classic rock at 6 AM, get a little Geddy Lee and Rush in my system, then by 1 pm, I'm listening to "Rush" as in Limbaugh. In between, I surf between stations until I hear something I like. That could be Thistle and Shamrock Celtic music on NPR, or Dobie Gray and Drift Away, on soft rock, or Flowers on the Wall on King Country. Now, I KNOW my radio ain't the only one that came with a tuning knob...is it??

And, amid this hackneyed subject, yet again, there is a less-than-subtle undercurrent of contempt for Paul Franklin and his family. Folks, regardless of what you think you have done musically, his family has lived that whole scene. I can say from the friendships that I have struck up with the entire family that they belong on a Norman Rockwell calendar somewhere. They are simply the salt of the earth, and you will not find a better family anywhere.

So, why, if you don't like what's playing, don't you just turn the damn thing OFF, buy a CD with "Molden Oldies from the Days Before Tuners" or whatever. Listen to something ELSE! Hell, you *might* find something out there you like.

Again, for the umpty hundredth time, you adapt or you get left behind. Paul's phone is still ringing, some other phones are not. As far as Theresa goes, she has been WAY nicer than she needed to be on here. Her parents read this forum, and the stuff that is said on here is PERSONAL, whether you think it's just opinion or not. It's not an academic study. You are talking about these people's bread and butter.

You don't like the way the boat is floatin, grab an oar and dig in, but bitchin' bout the river ain't gonna change its course.

Les

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by L campbell on 23 September 2000 at 12:05 PM.]</p></FONT>

Kevin Owens wrote:<blockquote><font size=-1>...but if you think for yourself and don't agree with the masses, you'll always be called something or made to feel a certain way. I could go on but I don't want to offend anyone.</font></blockquote>

Kevin,
I've lived this all my life and this Forum is no exception. I like most all kinds of music but most people i come across only like one or two. So when i talk about ideas of combining different styles i seem to always get negative feedback. When i talk Dance or House music with someone i don't dare tell them i also like traditional Country Music. And if i say here that i'd like to say... make, or hear a dance version of When You Say Nothing At All at maybe 125bpm i would expect gasps from Forumites.

My love for Country Music started with the jangly acoustic guitars and it's pretty much stayed there. Don't hear much of that on the radio these days.

When i was trying out acoustics last week at the store i was a'strummin' which fostered some weird looks by a few teens.

<SMALL>And if i say here that i'd like to say... make, or hear a dance version of When You Say Nothing At All at maybe 125bpm i would expect gasps from Forumites</SMALL>

GASP!

I can honestly say that's something I probably wouldn't want to hear.

But, would you hear those same gasps from people who like "Dance or House Music" if you proposed such a thing? I would guess there'd be more of an acceptance from that crowd.

I tend to cringe when somebody proposes taking a "country" song and transforming it into another style. I cringe much less when the opposite is proposed. I wouldn't mind hearing stuff by Debbie Gibson (for example) mixed up with some steel guitar and even a little bit of fiddle. Or even just some "acoustic mixes" of her stuff. They did that on one song of hers ("We Could Be Together", IIRC). I really liked it. Then again, I'm a sucker for acoustic mixes and ballads (the acoustic set is the best part of a Wilkinsons concert, to me).

Maybe that explains why I don't like it when artists like Garth Brooks, Shania Twain, and Tim McGraw (who I think started out quite "country") tend to become more and more "poppish" with each album. I realize WHY it happens, but I wish it didn't. All the more reason I sometimes find myself wishing a for a little less success to groups that I love.

------------------
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David Pennybaker on 23 September 2000 at 03:07 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David Pennybaker on 23 September 2000 at 03:09 PM.]</p></FONT>

David & Les, Where did you read that I was against new country music. To the contrary I said I listened to everything. As a full time proffessional musician I can't afford to say I hate it and I'm not going to learn it. If you think I said that you had better go back and read it again. When you do that and read it carefully you will see the point I was making. I'll tell you the same as I said to someone else"Don't put words in my mouth" Thanks, Mike

<SMALL>It's like when people use that (forgive me) pejoritive with the Oklahomans.How many people still think that only Country music is played there?</SMALL>

Hey, wait a second. I resemble that remark!

Alas, even some Oklahomans have the audacity to think that there's music other than country music.

It is surprising to hear, sometimes, that some people "up North" still think there's nothing but "Cowboys and Indians" in Oklahoma.

------------------
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

Janice, Please close this thread. I have found out what I needed to know. Thanks, Mike Sweeney

I think Shot would say Time to "close this Thread" Dave do they really play Country North Of Texas?

------------------
CJC

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 23 September 2000 at 04:04 PM.]</p></FONT>

Mike,

I did read what you said about music. Forgive me for drifting off the main topic of your message. It seemed to me that the "new vs. old" was somewhat intertwined with your main points. I shall try to refrain from bringing that up again in this thread.

As for "getting the point", let me quote what I think your main points are:

<SMALL>But I refuse to be ashamed of my upbringing on a farm in Virginia,or playing country music of any form.. . . . If you want to call me a redneck go ahead,I worked out in the hot summer sun enough to have one. And that's nothing for me to be ashamed of. Now what do you all think Shot Jackson would say about people in the music community of Nashville telling us we should be ashamed of our roots and heritage? . . . . I have to walk on eggshells when dealing with others heritages but I'm supposed to be ashamed of mine. . . . . But I'm tired of hearing and seeing people say that the new breed is better in every case and everything before was redneck. . . . </SMALL>

Were those comments directed at somebody in particular in this forum? If so, to whom?

Maybe I'm being dense here, but I haven't seen anybody in this forum using the word "redneck" in a condescending or deragatory manner. If I used that term and offended you, I offer my sincerest apologies.

I can only assume you were referring to some comments made by Theresa Galbraith. I can't apologize for her, nor can I say with absolute certainty that she meant no offense by what she said. Bear in mind that I may have missed some things that she said.

What I can say is this: I didn't detect any condecension in what I heard her say. And I can say that she doesn't appear to me to be the type of person who would use the term "redneck" in a disparaging manner, especially towards an individual on a public forum.

Regarding your comment "people in the music community of Nashville telling us we should be ashamed of our roots and heritage": Again, I have to ask, is this directed outside the forum, or to somebody particular here?

Not knowing to whom you refer, I can hardly address that statement. I can only hope that most people (esp. in the Nashville music community) don't feel that way.

------------------
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons