The Steel Guitar Forum

Peter Freiberger wrote:In addition to an overly busy right hand, when they should just be comping chords , it’s also a problem for bass players when piano players play a lot of left hand. Skip is great about establishing a logical pattern a bass player can follow. On his arrangements for Jay Dee at steel shows Skip often writes specific bass parts out, which makes it easy and provides a strong foundation for the soloists.

The other benefit of this is so the “experts” can criticize you for not being able to play an easy standard tune without a chart in front of you Peter. Seriously I love Skip’s charts!

A few years ago I played steel on a pretty big Always Patsy run. I was the only non-union player. The piano player/leader evidently was reading the entire score and played a lot and never stopped. Way too busy for me and annoying.

Mack,

I play instrumentals. No time to put up with Prima Donna singers

I have had piano players tell me to "take it down a step and a half" when we are in E which screws up our fingerings and all he does is push a transpose "Magic" button on his keyboard. And we are live at a gig with 15 seconds notice.

A Praise group I played with during a deployment to Iraq played most everything in C#. Which was fine but got a bit boring. So one day I suggested tounge in cheek to the piano player (a good one btw) that we change it up and play in Db. He replied that he couldn't as that was too many flats to deal with

Why C#? Because that was the best key for the singers that we had.


You are right that it is all about the singer (when you have one). Too often a singer thinks that he/she can hit the high notes and they can't but do not want to ask the band to play it in a different key than the original recording was in. I tell them that Sinatra had a 2 1/2 octave range and it drove arrangers nuts. But Frank stayed in his range and that was part of his geniusness.

Tony Oresteen wrote:Mack,



I have had piano players tell me to "take it down a step and a half" when we are in E which screws up our fingerings and all he does is push a transpose "Magic" button on his keyboard. And we are live at a gig with 15 seconds notice.

The problem with that “Magic Button” is that you forget to push it after the song is over and reset the keyboard back to “0” and then the next song is out of key!

No magic button, but our "lead" pianist at church will sometimes say "I'm playing it in flats"..... songs that have more than one sharp in the key! Has caught me off guard more than once, because she usually forgets to warn us, and we're looking at the music! After 4 bars I can catch on and can adjust on steel pretty fast, but drives the guitarists (sometimes me) nuts, scrambling for the capos. I'm not a piano player, I don't see how(why) they convert key of A to Ab, E to Eb, and D to Db from the original printed music?

Mack Quinney wrote:

Tony Oresteen wrote:Mack,



I have had piano players tell me to "take it down a step and a half" when we are in E which screws up our fingerings and all he does is push a transpose "Magic" button on his keyboard. And we are live at a gig with 15 seconds notice.

The problem with that “Magic Button” is that you forget to push it after the song is over and reset the keyboard back to “0” and then the next song is out of key!

Amen!!! That has happened to me more times than I can remember!!

For the most incredible piano/PSG unison break, check this out, starting about 2:40.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LtYzQRXW-c

I'll echo what has already been said: some of you are playing with the wrong pianist.

At the pro level, no key should be off-limits to anyone in the band. A good reading pianist can deal with all key signatures; he may have those he prefers, but that's another matter.

We all know that, stylistically, that 'Telecaster' sound is best served by keys with available open strings but if Db is called, a decent player can deal with it.

Same with pianists: any good Nashville production from the '80s, ''90s and 2000s is an object lesson in leaving space for the featured player in a particular verse or chorus - lay out until, by tacet agreement, it's your turn again.

Play less, not more, whether you're on steel, piano or something else.

I did a run the Patsy show at our Naples Community Theatre. The conductor/MD/pianist was accomplished but he overplayed - through every section of every tune. I had worked under his direction many times but on his 'musical ground' (Broadway shows) in which I just played what was in front of me.

When it came to the more organic approach required when duplicating Nashville head arrangements, I felt qualified to speak up and suggest that, when the fiddle had the 'lead', the MD might try just playing pads.

"Are you saying I'm playing too much???"

I have never worked there since.

I'm currently playing on occasion now days with a blind piano player. It's one of the most incredible and enjoyable playing situations that I have ever been involved with. He's probably the most positive person that I have ever known too. Some piano players that I worked with, were great musicians, but they usually traveled or played in Country Music circles. Some of the pianist in churches that I played music with, were the worst ever to play music with. They feel they are on a divine mission and God's ordained musical ministers. Not all but most of them, and many church people look down their noses at Steel Guitarists. I pretty much quit playing in churches years ago. I played in several Churches and praise and worship bands, and recorded with Gospel quartets and others. I'm much happier not doing that these days, and I was a minister at one time. It will be interesting to see who plays music in heaven. I'm sure it will include instruments like Steel Guitars and Pianos and there won't be any egos or musical jealousy there. What a glorious day that will be!

...unless of course the piano player is also the steel player...

https://youtu.be/EpaTtvLA6vc

Nice Dave! Yeah,that's one way to solve the problem alright.

There you go Gil

Gil James wrote:

Back in the 1970's my pal John Ely played a rig like that in a reggae band here in Austin. Back when Austin was a groove to live in.

Mack Quinney wrote:Ok, being primarily a piano player and steel player second, (or third or fourth ) I need to speak up for my peeps!

When playing with female singers you start adding flats, F, Bb, Eb are ok, beyond that I’m going to get coffee. Some piano players grew up playing in church. A bunch of hymns are in the flatted keys and those players are more comfortable in those keys.

Bill Evans made a point of learning any song he played in all keys. A Verse chorus in all keys takes about 15 minutes tops. Good advice. Some of the flat keys are wickedly easy,,, A flat is a lot of fun to rip pentatonics and Floyd Cramerisms. DFlat is really pretty. I got forced as a kid by a real tough teacher who made my play chromatic triads in all keys in all inversions... Just gotta do it.

Roger Rettig wrote:....

We all know that, stylistically, that 'Telecaster' sound is best served by keys with available open strings but if Db is called, a decent player can deal with it....

Very true. One thing that I have done is most of my armpit guitars have a twin brother tuned to Eb and I take both to a jam/gig/etc when I do not know exactly what keys will be used. I have a double guitar gig bag that I use when taking the twins.

The E tuned guitars are set up with 0.010s and the Eb guitars are set up with 0.011s so they feel the same.

Solves the Db problem. And the Eb & Ab problems as well.

I go to the Phoenix show and see Skip Edwards play with 30 different bands, and he makes every one of them sound better. He knows what to play and when to play.He plays great solo's when asked , but doesn't try to steal the show, just does the right thing to make the band sound better. Always a joy to listen to.The only pianist I have played with is Earnest Bovine , and it's an honor and privilege to play with him. He's crazy good , knows what to do all the time. He makes me sound better than I am . When it's time for his solo , look out, he will play something unbelievably good. I'm lucky to get to play with him every year in Phoenix. Sorry to hear about everyone's nightmares with pianist, mine has been joyful

I have been super lucky to play with excellent pianist at Summit Church Orlando. I love the way the piano and steel interact, sound together. The players at this church are super, never had any trouble, sometimes we work out parts, but usually it's kind of understood which solo breaks I will take. I have played there for 12 yrs so I kind of know what they want. They were happy to have steel so I get lots of playing opportunities. Piano and steel can sound otherworldly, angelic together. I remember once at another campus I had to play with a guy who was a bit janky, but I just plowed thru and took my solo. Not hard with a Legrande and and an LTD 400! But usually no trouble.

Tom, you are so right. The piano and steel can sound heavenly together when everyone is in the right frame of mind. I introduced the steel in my church a little over a year ago,not knowing how it would go over. Well, I love it,and thank goodness the congregation does too! My wife is one of the alternating pianists ,so we can use our arrangements every other Sunday. When the other pianist plays,I pretty much just back her with the prettiest chords I can come up with,cause she's not giving a break.I never thought about cranking it up for a ride along! I'll see how that goes.

Steve Cattermole wrote:I go to the Phoenix show and see Skip Edwards play with 30 different bands, and he makes every one of them sound better. He knows what to play and when to play.He plays great solo's when asked , but doesn't try to steal the show, just does the right thing to make the band sound better. Always a joy to listen to.The only pianist I have played with is Earnest Bovine , and it's an honor and privilege to play with him. He's crazy good , knows what to do all the time. He makes me sound better than I am . When it's time for his solo , look out, he will play something unbelievably good. I'm lucky to get to play with him every year in Phoenix. Sorry to hear about everyone's nightmares with pianist, mine has been joyful

Yes sir. Both of these guys are the best. And I, like you, am honored and relieved to know that either of them is there during my set.

There are people who play instruments have a big ego. Not Musicians, Once they start playing they can't stop and hand the song over to another player, Or get back in lead.

They are musicians who choose an instrument and play it.

I played A Birthday Party Sunday about 1 1/2 hours, Felt I was in another land, Set at angle to a Musician playing Lead Guitar, Never got stepped on once with a run of hot licks, Made me be a better Musician too, Out of respect for him.

I played in a band one night, A member of the band sung, Together Again, The lead guitar walked on me till I rolled my hands over with bar and picks pointed to the ceiling.
I did not have a dog in that fight.

The prettier, more reverential worship songs I keep super careful profile, not distract worship, try to enhance instead. If it's a stompin, clappin hallelujah moment then I will kick it into high gear. I only push when I feel it is appropriate, or when told.

I think we are lucky here in our area to have three of the best piano players in the business. Chip Bricker, Brett Traylor and B. J. Kyle. They all know what to play and when to play. Brett is also a great steel player, Chip is talented on multi instruments as also BJ. Always a pleasure to play with these guys.