The Steel Guitar Forum

Being mostly a banjo player--the banjo has fallen in and out of favor for over a hundred years. It will be completely dead, and then suddenly there's a huge revival. Steel might well go the same way.

Both banjo and steel have always been instruments that people either love or hate I think. That kind of instrument dies off quickly, but comes back just as quickly. I wouldn't write the pedal steel off quite yet.

Dave

Al Evans wrote: The more-or-less $1800 cost of a nice D10 pedal steel with 8 pedals and 4 knee levers in 1972 would be equivalent to about $12,000 today.

Except that very few buyers paid that much back then. There was a big markup (the "list price" in the brochures) that few people actually paid. In addition, you could likely afford more for a pedal steel back then because everything else was so cheap. Relatively, they're a little better deal now than they were back then, but I don't see it as a "night and day" difference.

The biggest difference is that there are far more "necessities" now (internet, CATV, computers, subscription music services, and cell-phones) vying for our cash than there were in 1972. Yes, we earned far less, but we had more disposable income. Different world, and times changed.

Going forward, I think the biggest challenge with the pedal steel is their maintenance requirements. My generation doesn’t have the skill sets that the legends of steel guitar had.

Paul Strojan wrote:Going forward, I think the biggest challenge with the pedal steel is their maintenance requirements. My generation doesn’t have the skill sets that the legends of steel guitar had.

As soon as you can plug a USB cord into your guitar, and into your iPhone and the phone can diagnose and fix the problem, it will really take off!

Otherwise, yes, you are probably correct.

What goes around comes around! In a live situation people absolutely love the sound.
All equipment I have passed along to others have gone to younger new players. Yes it's faded somewhat, but when it gets really heard again, it'll be resurrected 'cause folks & country music will come back around! I know bunches of 20 something kids that are or have become big real country, country fans! From NY to LA and beyond!
There will be a new real country music, away from the '70's rock stuff going on nowdays!

1. It ain't 1963 anymore. Things change.
2. If you check some of the Facebook steel pages, you'll see that there are new (younger) players picking up steel regularly.
3. All we know for certain is the past and the present.
We shouldn't live in the past (though visits are nice) and we should try to make the present a time that music with steel guitar really expands. Witness the SUPERMAN movie with its orchestra of pedal steels. Susan Alcorn's PEDERNAL winning serious jazz accolades. Folks like Lee Gauthier just getting started.
Anyone seen my crystal ball?....

My tuppence.

From my perspective.... most Nashville sessions have a steel guitar on them. It may be buried in the mix and may only play pads to fatten the sound overall, but it is there.
The days of big steel turnarounds and intros are mostly gone. The pads or maybe a slide here and there that are being played is to richen the overall wall of sound theory that the rockers brought with them. Beginner steel players are enticed because it is an easier way to play the instrument, and therefore leads to more younger players learning the steel guitar.Some bands just do not want an "old guy" on stage because of the appearance. The younger generation may want that experienced sound (in tune) but do not want an old guy to be on stage as it makes them look old. Make sense? My 2 cents. Flame away Gents. (I may be a song writer)

But my opinion - if one is stuck in the mindset that there's nothing worth playing on pedal steel besides pre-1980 country music, I think the opportunities are gonna be very limited indeed.

Brilliantly said David.

A while back (pre-covid) i jammed with a "Bar Band", the young lady who tagged along with me, out of a lack of something better to do i 'spose, walked away as shocked as i was. About the newest song they played was an old Charlie Pride song i actually forgot about. They actually asked me if i had ever heard or can play "Is Anybody Going To San Antone?" They also played an old song by The Mavericks "All You Ever Do Is Bring Me Down", done in a more pronounced Polka Style as a polka. I was warming up with a couple of run-throughs of "Night Life", they liked it but sadly didn't know it "all the way through".

Anyways, the young lady college music major that tagged along with me, is one of the finest bassist i've heard in my 50 years of playing. Including Upright, Electric Keyless, Acoustic & Electric Bass Guitar. She includes Los Angeles session bass guitarist, Carol Kaye as an
influence and close friend. She asked me why i sat in with these friendly, dedicated, band of hard core, stuck in the 70's country musicians? She said "for a while now i wanted to ask you why you no longer play country music?" "It is the genre of music, your instrument is more aligned with." Then she said, "never mind i think i know why". I remember sitting there trying to think of of of of....something to reply. Thought it best not to respond at all. She had a very valid point.

As far as Steel Guitar goes, i play mostly the music so many on here hate. Yup... the pop, rock, show tunes, standards, new country and i'm loving it. It never fails, i have young people checking out my steels, both pedal, and my non pedal MSA SuperSlide. And they seem to show a lot of interest, and curiosity about the instrument. They don't beat feet when they ask about prices. I for one think college music programs should include student funding for the steel guitar. Robert Randolph has contributed so much in introducing the steel guitar to younger folks, after all it's there our future rest. And unfortunately young folks aren't particularly into 60's & 70's country...... Buck Owen's "Together Again" unfortunately not in great demand these days. Yeah i know i know.

As long as the songwriters keep favoring Country RAP, Steel Guitar is gonna be a small part of Country Music. I haven't bought a CD since 1990. When I have walked in a CWM Joint & there's no steel, I turn & walk away.

If they are gonna play Rock n Roll Rap or Country Crap, they can play it for someone else.

For my money, there are a few good songs, that have been penned, but not many. My days are few, so I'm gonna listen to my favorites & they all have Pedal Steel Guitar....

I think there are "two" sides to the future or not of PSG.

1- Musical "markets": The instrument evolved from "Americanized Hawaiian" thru Swing into Country and got jammed stuck in the last genre. It was a long and nice run and E9th really gave not the instrument a "market" but Country music a voice which has now outlived itself. I don't like it any more than most here, but I've come to grips with that fact.
The instrument needs new markets and for that it will need to shake off some of it's "Countryness". Playing styles and maybe some tweaks on tunings may help. I would suggest not only looking back at Jazz, Swing and Bebop (something I could be accused of) but also Soul, NeoSoul and Latin.

2- The Instrument itself: While the quality of the mechanical aspects have really become more and more acceptable to refined, we still mostly play an instrument which is still quite new but only a quality evolution of something that has been developed mainly in the 60's thru 70's. Besides quality and consistency, not much new to report since.
I predicted 25 years ago (then fantasizing at bear Jules Vernes levels) that the still now mechanical pitch shifting mechanics (pedals and knee levers) will eventually become digital, mechanics free. Today with Bluetooth and Apps to control virtually everything except our kids and spouses, and quality pitch shifting to the point the can fine tune singers to a track's key and chords, I would suggest that the technology is long present to do that.
What will that do? Well: Free tuning and set up choices as well as temperament adjustment which could become automatic (all changes automatically compensated across all strings, no matter the pedal-lever combinations (everything works)).
A cheaper more versatile instrument for today's cell phone app heads.

I could understand why some would want to resist things like that, quite frankly I am considering lobbying for a mandatory "opt out or "smart"" option on any and every device. But if it's the FUTURE we are really asking about, I think that outrunning it in the backward direction is as certain to lead to death has driving down the interstate on the left side.

... J-D.

To speak to that, I've played pedal steel for a number of years in a Joni Mitchell cover band, using a copedent I designed for her music. It's worked really well. I don't think you could get a lot of those chords with an E9 tuning, but they sound really gorgeous on steel...

I got introduced to pedal steel by Glenn from Moyo, so I knew it primarily as an afro-pop and free jazz instrument! I guess that's kept me from pigeon-holing it. But I've also played a lot of western swing on the lap steel, and I'm a huge fan of the history of steel playing, including the elusive PSG C6 neck that almost nobody actually seems to play

I have the only multi-kord I've ever seen with a steel tray, (like an old fender 400) and it actually plays in tune. So I can experiment with co-pedents easily. I think that's what the instrument really needs right now to adapt to different musical styles and sounds. But generally the MK is a pretty janky instrument, so that's not much help.

I'm working now on prototyping a servo steel guitar, to encourage this kind of experimentation. If it works, it will also be cheaper to build and lighter weight than a mechanical steel. This has been discussed many times elsewhere in these forums.

The PSG is still the only instrument in the world that can slide from one chord smoothly and musically to a completely different one. That is a characteristic that is far more broadly valuable and distinctive than any musical style it might be associated with. There will always be a place for this instrument, and I bet some of the best is yet to come. Just ask the banjo players

My 2c!
-e

After I perform, sometimes people come up to me and say, "You don't see many steel guitar players anymore. Why is that?" I reply, "Two reasons: 1 - Kids do not have the patience today to learn to play. They prefer a guitar because it is fairly fast to learn. 2 - Pedal steels are expensive. It cost $1,500 to buy a student model single neck. I recommend to people that if you are interest in playing a pedal steel, I would first buy a lap steel or a dobro so that you can get use to playing with picks and a bar. After you are comfortable with it, then step up to a pedal steel. I started out with a lap steel & played it for 2 years in high school before I went to a pedal steel.

Roy Carroll wrote: Beginner steel players are enticed because it is an easier way to play the instrument, and therefore leads to more younger players learning the steel guitar. Some bands just do not want an "old guy" on stage because of the appearance. The younger generation may want that experienced sound (in tune) but do not want an old guy to be on stage as it makes them look old. Make sense?

Brilliant observation...makes perfect sense to me!

Dave Mudgett wrote: But my opinion - if one is stuck in the mindset that there's nothing worth playing on pedal steel besides pre-1980 country music, I think the opportunities are gonna be very limited indeed.

Well, there was that period in the '90s with a few acts like Randy Travis and Garth Brooks. But in the last 20 years, there's been zip as far as notable pedal steel on the pop or country music charts. And when it's not seen or heard much by John Q. Public, it's not hard to figure out why it's not more popular. (Very few things that aren't seen or heard are in demand or become popular! )

And if Alabama had had a pedal steel, I think country music would have been an entirely different world than it is now.

... But in the last 20 years, there's been zip as far as notable pedal steel on the pop or country music charts.

I play with a younger guy (27, I believe) who plays a lot of modern country music, and wants me to put steel all over the place on some of these songs. Just because the original didn't have a ton of steel doesn't mean lots of steel can't fit nicely.

Now, we play some stuff that we both agree just calls for guitar or slide guitar. I'm also the lead guitar player, so I play guitar or slide guitar on that stuff.

It's about what the song wants, not just what we want to do. IMHO. But if we shake the shackles of having to ape exactly what's on the record, there can be lots of room for steel. Way more fun that way too. Again IMHO.

As far as the age thing goes - I dunno. Lots of people I've played with are a lot younger than me. I'm sure there are some narrow-minded people who only want to play with "my generation". And I imagine that's true for more than the "younger generation".

Dave Mudgett wrote: I play with a younger guy (27, I believe) who plays a lot of modern country music, and wants me to put steel all over the place on some of these songs.

All the big music producers out there, and not a single one thinks like that.

Therein lies the crux of our dilemma.

¥

All the big music producers out there, and not a single one thinks like that.

Therein lies the crux of our dilemma.

I guess I don't completely agree with the first part. As well as originals by the singer, which feature a mix of steel and guitar, we play lots of fairly current or recent rotation stuff, plus quite a bit of modern and neo-classic country from the last 30 years or so, and stuff that I would probably classify in the general classic/southern rock category. Modern country is not the world that I come out of, and I had never heard of a bunch of these people. But I like what we're doing. Some of these tunes originally had steel, some didn't. But we add steel wherever we think it fits, or use guitar or slide wherever we think that fits. I'm the only lead instrument, so whatever I'm playing, it's all up front. I'd guess my breakdown is probably around 60% pedal steel, 20% guitar, and 20% slide guitar.

We can't do anything about producers or what's on the radio. The only thing I know to do is put my head down and try to work with people who see the value. They're out there. Hell, I'm not trying to be a star anyway. Never was.

Thinking of a "young" not wanting an "old" on stage thing, potentially more of a canada trend, but I'd say with most bands starting out these days will end up doing at least their first few tours in a pretty DIY fashion where there is a bunch of crashing on friends and random peoples floors and basements. Pretty hard to convince someone even in their 30s (let alone 40s 50s or more!) to go along with that kinda tour. By the time the touring get more comfortable they already are used to the sound without a steel player. The only small-time band I've seen touring with steel was a duo (plus hired drums and bass) where the singer happened to play steel.

I bring this up because if you really want to see the world of steel guitar being vibrant in 20 or 30 years you want to see the instrument in the hands of folks suffering to get heard today. Maybe I'm being hyperbolic, but I really love the small artists out there just doing it!

It is my opinion the future of the steel guitar depends on the music industry putting out songs that feature the instrument. It's not really up to us or the steel guitar market to decide.

I'm betting that the proliferation of songs featuring steel guitar in the 40s led to many folks picking it up along with the door to door sales of instruments and lessons.

In the 60s, country music was loaded with pedal steel and surely influenced and spawned masses to take up that instrument.

The 70s, so-so. 80s and 90s still quite a bit of air play of songs featuring steel guitar.

The country rock era of the 70s brought many of us to an instrument we knew little about, but found it fascinating and wanting to learn it.

Not much now hitting the airwaves. If you want it, you have to dig a little deeper to find it.

Much of the music is so forgettable, it's not grabbing anyone's attention and causing people to take it up in any kind of numbers.

I contend as the music industry goes, so goes the steel guitar.

I bring this up because if you really want to see the world of steel guitar being vibrant in 20 or 30 years you want to see the instrument in the hands of folks suffering to get heard today. Maybe I'm being hyperbolic, but I really love the small artists out there just doing it!

I basically agree with this, with this caveat - I don't think this is just about 'small' artists. I don't see people/bands like Josh Turner, Midland, Tyler Childers, Morgen Wallen, Jon Pardi, Chris Young, Luke Combs, Sturgill Simpson, and other people we cover as very small from my point of view. Steel fits well on most of the tunes that we do by people like this, and is definitely present on some of the originals.

The fellow I'm working with spent a few years in Nashville writing tunes and paying some dues, and he and others like him definitely seem to see a place for plenty of pedal steel guitar. He had Steve Hinson playing steel on some of his CD tunes, and if that stuff ain't real country, I'll eat my hat. Of course, electric guitar, slide guitar, and lap steel figure in too - that doesn't bother me at all - it is not possible to walk back to 1965. Of course, it's hard to know how things will play out over time. But I don't see the situation as hopeless at all right now. Time changes everything.

Definitely didn't mean to imply its just about small artists, but a handful of those small artists this year are gonna become big artists in a couple years . Always fun to see what ones do.

Sort of an aside, since actually taking up steel I've noticed it used on a lot of records that I never expected or picked up on before I really opened my ears to it. I think I first pick up on it in some Led Zeppelin records when I was a teenager, and obviously figured out it was a country thing not long after that. But now I hear it all the time at least as a textural element in many of the genres I listen to regularly. Honestly tho, even just guitar isn't as prominent in a lot of popular music anymore either.

I do kinda wonder if guitar focused bands will come back as the biggest things... a lot of people started playing guitar during the pandemic, and I know I started listening to a lot more country when I started playing pedal steel. Maybe there are enough new guitar players that will want to listen to guitar heavy music that it'll edge out synthy pop music again? On the other hand does it even matter? The internet has made it much easier for you to find a niche regardless of what the most popular thing happens to be at any given moment. If the musical landscape was the same as today but we didn't have the internet I find it hard to imagine that any of the folks Dave Mudgett mentioned would have as big of an audience as they do, and I'm grateful for that because I love all those artists.