The Steel Guitar Forum

You may want to look at the original, dual channel, Milkman Sideman for a double duty tube amp but meeting your weight requirements. Tim still builds these on special request and can give you the exact weight options with specific speakers.

Disclaimer: I have never played through a Milkman, was just doing some research in case I needed to replace my Vegas 400 or my Twin Reverb with something that weighs less.

Yes I still do the dual channel amps on request.

After years and years of building amps for players that do double duty I have some thoughts but the main take away is that I think its better to find a single channel amp that sounds great for both and then roll with it. Use a pedal or something on the front end to equal out the differences.

So either get a big high watt amp and use a pedal to make it sound like a low watt amp when you play the guitar, or get a lower wattage amp and be happy because thats the tone most modern steel guitar players are using now days anyway. I find a single channel 20-40W amp usually sounds great for both and has plenty of headroom for the pedal steel. Unless you are playing a huge dance hall with no PA you will be good to go.

Karl Paulsen wrote:

Dale Foreman wrote:Peavey Vegas! Best double duty amp there is!

I was going to suggest the same, but it's closer to 70 pounds than 50.

Still don’t have to make 2 trips! Lol😂

I trim up the amp's tone stack for steel, then trim up a Boss GE-7 on my 6-string's pedalboard to compensate, and use both amp inputs, one for each instrument's signal chain.
Works just fine on my Milkman Half and Half, Peavey Session 500, and Nashville 112.

That signal chain means I have to stand to play six string, which I'd rather do, but it's also possible to tweak it to accommodate sitting to play six-string.

Dave Hopping wrote:I trim up the amp's tone stack for steel, then trim up a Boss GE-7 on my 6-string's pedalboard to compensate, and use both amp inputs, one for each instrument's signal chain.
Works just fine on my Milkman Half and Half, Peavey Session 500, and Nashville 112.

That signal chain means I have to stand to play six string, which I'd rather do, but it's also possible to tweak it to accommodate sitting to play six-string.

Dave,
Why does that signal chain mean you have to stand to play? Sorry, I didn't follow that very well.

Andy Vance wrote:

Dave Hopping wrote:I trim up the amp's tone stack for steel, then trim up a Boss GE-7 on my 6-string's pedalboard to compensate, and use both amp inputs, one for each instrument's signal chain.
Works just fine on my Milkman Half and Half, Peavey Session 500, and Nashville 112.

That signal chain means I have to stand to play six string, which I'd rather do, but it's also possible to tweak it to accommodate sitting to play six-string.

Dave,
Why does that signal chain mean you have to stand to play? Sorry, I didn't follow that very well.

Hi Andy-
When I was much younger, relatives would say "Dave, you've grown another foot", but it still wasn't enough to operate my steel's foot pedals, volume pedal, and the six-string pedalboard from a sitting position.

All seriousness aside, before I stopped playing sit-down six string, I'd put the EQ'd-to-compensate six-string and steel into opposite sides of a passive A/B box, the A/B box into my VP, and the VP into the front of the EQ'd-for-steel amp.The switched-off instrument was entirely out of the signal path, and was dead quiet.

I'm just more comfortable standing to play six-string, and I found I could get up and switch instruments while the bandleader talked to the crowd.

I have been using a Roland cube 80 XL for both steel and guitar. Recently switched to a Bandit 65 with a Tavis Toy TT-12 Speaker. Very versatile amp.

If anyone has this figured out please let me know![/quote]

Hi Ben,
I'm also looking for a double duty amp. My issues are similar to yours (and many others I'd imagine) in that that I wanted a high powered tube amp that sounds great for both steel and guitar, and is light weight. The weight thing was always the snag.
I consulted with my amp repair/builder guy and asked if he could build something like that, in a Deluxe Reverb chassis/cab. So happens that he did a similar build for one of his customers, and happened to have it in the shop. He generously let me borrow it (with his customers blessing of course) and I'll use it on a steel gig tomorrow. I've been using it at home, and it's killer! The only difference is that mine will have reverb, and I'm still undecided on the speaker,
but the Creamback Celestion does sound great.
No rev or trem on this build but there is an added mid knob, a six position bright switch, and a global presence knob in place of the trem intensity knob on the vibrato channel. I might ditch the presence knob for a six position mid frequency selector knob. I will probably go for the Fender style knobs instead of these.


Specs are:
4 6L6's
90 watts
Solid state rectifier
90 watt Creamback speaker
Weight is about 40-45lbs. Very manageable

Dave Hopping wrote:

Andy Vance wrote:

Dave Hopping wrote:I trim up the amp's tone stack for steel, then trim up a Boss GE-7 on my 6-string's pedalboard to compensate, and use both amp inputs, one for each instrument's signal chain.
Works just fine on my Milkman Half and Half, Peavey Session 500, and Nashville 112.

That signal chain means I have to stand to play six string, which I'd rather do, but it's also possible to tweak it to accommodate sitting to play six-string.

Dave,
Why does that signal chain mean you have to stand to play? Sorry, I didn't follow that very well.

Hi Andy-
When I was much younger, relatives would say "Dave, you've grown another foot", but it still wasn't enough to operate my steel's foot pedals, volume pedal, and the six-string pedalboard from a sitting position.

All seriousness aside, before I stopped playing sit-down six string, I'd put the EQ'd-to-compensate six-string and steel into opposite sides of a passive A/B box, the A/B box into my VP, and the VP into the front of the EQ'd-for-steel amp.The switched-off instrument was entirely out of the signal path, and was dead quiet.

I'm just more comfortable standing to play six-string, and I found I could get up and switch instruments while the bandleader talked to the crowd.

Oh, got it. OK, I didn't realize it was preference. Thanks!

I’ll update here:

Short of it - I picked up a Peavey Jazz Classic 400 in a Tommy Huff Cabinet from a fellow forum member. Probably weighs in the 40lb range and sounds great with both steel and guitar. Still trying to tune in the mids with the mid shift, but I’m not too worried. A dirty boost form my OCD pedal out front for guitar evens out any tone/volume issues for double duty. For steel, I still prefer my Session 400 but still getting my sound on this, and the weight difference is notable.

Before finding this purchase, I ended up getting a Peavey Special 150 almost for free besides the peavey blue marvel I bought to replace the speaker. It sounds amazing for 6 string (I’d say better than the jazz classic), a little too “guitarry” for steel but not nearly as guitarry as the hot rod deluxe I lay through sometimes at a practice space. Honestly 100% passable, but I’m picky. It’s also a few pounds heavier than the Jazz Classic and it’s only a 1x12.

A side journey in this search was borrowing a quilter 101. I played it though the 12” Blue Marvel mentioned above and it was unusably bright with steel. I plugged it into the black widow in my Session 400 and it sounded amazing, although still not as a great as the Session 400. I may buy a quilter and split the Jazz Classic into a head and cab in the future. For double duty though, quilters are 1 input so would need an AB pedal.

So far the "perfect" amp for me is a Steelaire Rack Mount. 2 inputs and very light weight. I use it for PSG, Telecaster, Strat, Baritone Guitar, Reso guitar, electric banjo and electric fiddle.
With everything in the rack the whole thing weighs about 23lbs.

Edward Dixon wrote:So far the "perfect" amp for me is a Steelaire Rack Mount. 2 inputs and very light weight. I use it for PSG, Telecaster, Strat, Baritone Guitar, Reso guitar, electric banjo and electric fiddle.
With everything in the rack the whole thing weighs about 23lbs.

That's incredibly light. I can't quite tell from the pic, what else is in that rack?

Sorry about the focus, just had cataract surgery on my right eye and still have a cataract in the left.

Besides the amp I have a Furman power supply, a Korg Pitch Black tuner and a Behringer Virtualizer (multi effects). The Rack itself is only 9" deep.

One of (if not the one) favorite steel and six string amps is a hybrid Music Man RP112 Sixty-Five. Its no more than 50#. Only one channel but MM made a two channel version also.

I use an Eminence GB128 speaker in it, mostly picked for six string, but ok on steel except can get a bit too twangy on an 11 gauge S3. For a loud live stage would want a higher efficiency speaker.

A 1x15 version of the 2ch was for sale a month ago in my area. Wish I would have snagged it.

Early 1970s Fender Bandmaster Reverb heads also fit the bill - two channels - pristine cleans, (maybe too pristine) through a matching K120 2x12 cab. I use this as a sidewash acoustic guitar monitor and alao as a small PA. But probably into 100# with head and cab. I'm tempted on blackfacing mine or running as Class A to warm it up a bit.

Edward Dixon wrote:Sorry about the focus, just had cataract surgery on my right eye and still have a cataract in the left.

Besides the amp I have a Furman power supply, a Korg Pitch Black tuner and a Behringer Virtualizer (multi effects). The Rack itself is only 9" deep.

Thanks for that.
If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to know more about the Virtualizer with steel.

I like it. I've only setup 4 presets, For the steel, I'm using a little delay with the reverb from the Steelaire. It offers a lot of effects but most are one effect at a time, some are 2 effect combinations. I can turn the effect on or off with the switch mounted on the leg of the steel or change the preset with the scroll wheel on the right side of the box (very handy).

Here are some links for more complete info.

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-Virtua ... B003EZXMS0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JloHoxHdkZ8

Edward Dixon wrote:I like it. I've only setup 4 presets, For the steel, I'm using a little delay with the reverb from the Steelaire. It offers a lot of effects but most are one effect at a time, some are 2 effect combinations. I can turn the effect on or off with the switch mounted on the leg of the steel or change the preset with the scroll wheel on the right side of the box (very handy).

Here are some links for more complete info.

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-Virtua ... B003EZXMS0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JloHoxHdkZ8

That's pretty neat. What controller do you use on the leg of your steel?

Ben Carbone wrote:I’ll update here:

Short of it - I picked up a Peavey Jazz Classic 400 in a Tommy Huff Cabinet from a fellow forum member. Probably weighs in the 40lb range and sounds great with both steel and guitar. Still trying to tune in the mids with the mid shift, but I’m not too worried. A dirty boost form my OCD pedal out front for guitar evens out any tone/volume issues for double duty. For steel, I still prefer my Session 400 but still getting my sound on this, and the weight difference is notable.

Before finding this purchase, I ended up getting a Peavey Special 150 almost for free besides the peavey blue marvel I bought to replace the speaker. It sounds amazing for 6 string (I’d say better than the jazz classic), a little too “guitarry” for steel but not nearly as guitarry as the hot rod deluxe I lay through sometimes at a practice space. Honestly 100% passable, but I’m picky. It’s also a few pounds heavier than the Jazz Classic and it’s only a 1x12.

A side journey in this search was borrowing a quilter 101. I played it though the 12” Blue Marvel mentioned above and it was unusably bright with steel. I plugged it into the black widow in my Session 400 and it sounded amazing, although still not as a great as the Session 400. I may buy a quilter and split the Jazz Classic into a head and cab in the future. For double duty though, quilters are 1 input so would need an AB pedal.

Sounds like you've got a nice amp in the Jazz Classic. However, if you've got the taste for something multichannel, a Peavey Rhythm Master 400 just popped up on Chicago area Craigslist. It's the size of a Vegas but has 4 Channels.
https://southbend.craigslist.org/msg/d/ ... 16899.html
Probably not what you need now, but just in case...

edit

Hi Guys, Noob from Seattle here. Just getting into pedal steel after many years away from a six-string guitar. Definitely not ready for a stage, yet. Just bought a used Sho-Bud and looking to start learning this amazing instrument. At the same time, I'm hopeful to remove my old Gibson ES-335 off the wall, replace her strings and start playing her again too... so looking for a combo amp but don't need 100 watts.

I actually have something that may work. Also back in the early 90's, I was given a late 40's / early 50's Magnatone Varsity as a gift. It's green MOTS with an 8" speaker, but might work in a pinch. I've had it all these years, as far as I know it still works, never changed the tubes or the caps or anything. I actually didn't realize until I started reading this blog and learning about pedal steel that those early Magnatone amps were paired with lap steels!

Getting the new pedal steel this weekend.. If anyone has recommendations for a combo amp that's more along the lines of a practice amp that has both clean and a little dirty, let me know!

Regards,
Pete
Seattle WA

Single-input amps drive me nuts. Even if I'm only playing bass I use two different basses. It looks so unprofessional to be fiddling about replugging.

Edward Dixon wrote:So far the "perfect" amp for me is a Steelaire Rack Mount. 2 inputs and very light weight. I use it for PSG, Telecaster, Strat, Baritone Guitar, Reso guitar, electric banjo and electric fiddle.
With everything in the rack the whole thing weighs about 23lbs.

I saw this one and smiled... not because I thought it was funny, but because it looked somewhat familiar!

What Tim Marcus said, is great advice.

I think if the Milkman The Amp 100w had two separate input channels that would be my answer, but sadly that's not the case.

Ben, don't let the fact that the gorgeous Milkman The Amp only having one input, is a deal breaker. The Amp is such a fantastic sounding portable sweetheart, Tim can help you with a workaround I'm sure. Taw me.... I'd just do this easy fix. Then put the little box in the back of your amp. Simple fix.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... e-switcher

Actually what tim suggested is about how I do it. Now to be perfectly honest, it's been years since I've played any instrument through a completely clean, one sound fits all Solid State (do they still call them that?) instrument/steel amplifier. Cain't even remember what that was like, and prefer not to.

I currently own 14 "Perfect" double duty amps, half my amps will fit in the palm of my hand, and will fit in my pak-a-seat. No need to make extra backbreaking trips to the car, just because you use one of those gawd awful, scarry, heavy, high maintenance, overly loud, misinformed about, i cain't find MY TONE on, or i'm too damn old to tote, whispered about, swore at, just too much hassle to use, taboo tube amps LOL. Just teasing. Especially not if you purchase the right amplifier, and-learn how to set it up correctly. I'm ummm ummm 70, and wouldn't dream of playing through anything else. Retire? From what? Shoot I've been retired most my life. Why in the world would I retire from something I love? For maybe what, stamp collecting or shuffleboard? Nah...that would certainly kill me from boredom.

There's more to playing Steel Guitar in public, then just sitting behind it and putting on a show. Transport and setup, are part of the experience for me, even with agonizing years of home practice & not to mention the investment you've made.

Disclaimer:
I rarely load, pack, carry, and on most gigs setup my own gear. I do certainly oversee all aspects of the operations.
However I tote each piece with pride when I need to.

All my amps are single channel amps, although my MesaBoogie JP-2C is a big 3 channel 100 watt concert monster, with 2- 5 band graphic eq's, cabinet clone, midi, loops, and the kitchen sink on the back side. My Boogie does actually get as quiet as a church mouse in my living room, surprised me actually. Today a stock Boogie JP-2C Amp is around $3,500 and weighing about 40 pounds. In actuality, mine is closer to $4,000 and hitting 50 pounds with the mods, exotic woods and custom cabinetry I had done. Nope, I didn't mind dragging my old Peavey Session 500, or my Fender SteelKing 'round neither.

https://www.mesaboogie.com/en-US/Produc ... /JP2C-Head













Exclusively running Rick Johnson Cabinets, loaded with Eminence, Peavey 1501-4 SB Neo's, Jensen Neo's, Weber D130 Neo Clones. My Johnson Signature "George Redmon Tall Boy 12" i keep loaded with Celestron Copperback Neo 12's.













My only experience through several years of listening to many Steel players who try using a single Amp for 2 or more instruments, was somehow, and I know they had to work hard at it, was somehow they took forever twisting knobs, until their steel guitar, and strat, both sounded durn near identical. Sounded just like a steel player, playing electric guitar, that sounds like his steel guitar. Well.......

Much success on your search for that "Perfect" all around double duty amplifier.

"Single Channel Tube Amps Rule"