The Steel Guitar Forum

Skip the twin reissue. They are crap. They are poorly made, fart out in the lows with buzzy and annoying highs. Plus a muddled and unfocused mid range. 70's fender twins are great and not to expensive. Just make sure its in good shape.


I use Milkman amps at this point.

There’s a lot of great choices out there. But you really can’t go wrong with a vintage Fender amp. Twin Reverb, Showman, BF Bassman, Pro Reverb....even a Deluxe Reverb all sound great, and the “cool” factor is off the charts. They are generally less expensive than boutique counterparts, are built like tanks, and there are plenty of people who service them.

This is my herd, and they all sound great with psg....

I could never get the sound I wanted out of a Twin, I got a Peavy Session 400 and loved it, play it to this day, at gigs of all sizes.
But I want CLEAN, which is where solid state shines.
I have not yet played a Milkman, but they are very attractive, just a bit dear for me. I'm right down the road from them so I'll be making a visit soon.
WFIW I think tone has a lot to do with your hands, attack etc.
As for solid state vs tube, like the man said, that's why they make chocolate AND vanilla.

I'm a dyed in the wool tube amp guy. I've been building them since I was a kid, and still do from time to time. The old Fenders are great, as are a lot of others. But there are a lot of the older germanium transistor based amps (Standel is one) that sound very similar.

These days, I've been playing mostly through homebrew tube preamps going into homebrew class D solid state power amps, and I've been very happy. Pretty much the same concept as the half and half and other modern amps. To my ears anyway, keeping the tubes close to the guitar is where most of the tube action is. Without having to power the big output tubes, most of the weight is avoided, and most of the sound is preserved. Yeah, nothing beats an all tube (or to me at least, an all germanium transistor) amp, but the class D power amp driven by a tube pre has really opened up some possibilities.



Dave

I completely agree with Tony. A Twin Reverb is ideal. 4 6L6 tubes is just the ticket for steel guitar.

A deluxe will absolutely work and what I ply 85 percent of gigs on. The speaker has a ton to do with it though. Higher wattage and big magnet very much help as it gets pushed.

I’m always shocked how loud people must be playing. A deluxe at 7 is insanely loud. I always use a matchbox so it hits the front end of the amplifier with a little more leeway for headroom I feel. And the heel of my volume pedal is down most of the time like a lot of pedal steel players. I never get past half on the volume pedal so I’m not really crushing the front end of the amp. But dear God on a regular bandstand indoor or outdoor a deluxe with a nice Burlie speaker Pretty much always does the job. On some big stages outdoors sometimes I will bring the vibroverb with the 15 inch JBL just for the heck of it.

And do not get me wrong. A twin reverb is a spectacular pedal steel lamp. Very possibly the best. Although my 64 Vibroverb with the JBL I think would be slightly better.

But dear God that is such a heavy amplifier to carry around. Twins are actually in the Vibro verb.

Granted I would always rather sacrifice the health of my back and carry a twin or something like that then to have to play a Peavey.

Steve Schmidt wrote:I completely agree with Tony. A Twin Reverb is ideal. 4 6L6 tubes is just the ticket for steel guitar.

Heck yes! If someone is carrying it for me a real hand wired vintage twin is just unbelievable for steel.

I now have a formula...when I was young, a Twin was perfect...now I believe that your amp should never weigh more than (100-your age). So I moved to a Milkman Half 'n Half....and now to a Milkman "The Amp", which should be OK for a while to come...

Steve Lipsey wrote:I now have a formula...when I was young, a Twin was perfect...now I believe that your amp should never weigh more than (100-your age). So I moved to a Milkman Half 'n Half....and now to a Milkman "The Amp", which should be OK for a while to come...

HA!

Yea DAMN I WISH I could deal with solid state.. but my ears/soul just won't abide.

I agree with Steve though to the OP. I had multiple Milkman amps.. include I think Tims SECOND ever amp. GREAT amps and a great guy to work with!

A buddy i play has one now.. the little princeton vibe amp and it KILLS. Can't go wrong with a milk man!

and to the OP I've always said that if you love tube amps for regular guitar (if you play 6 string) no need to reinvent the wheel... your ears will probably like them for steel too.

I was young and dumb but when I took up steel about 10 years ago coming from guitar I bought a Fender Steel King cause.. well i was told steel players play SS amps...

Even though for guitar I would NEVER consider playing a SS amp (I literally know not a single professional guitar player that plays a solid state amp)

Then about 1.5 years into my playing (so maybe 6 months into actually gigging) something happened and I had to play a gig with my Princeton reverb (and actual 10" speaker but it was a very small band with "jazz band" volumes")

And of course I said "holy CRAP this is easily the best tone i've had on pedal steel"

Sold the Steel King and never went back.

I am actually jealous of people that can like SS as they are cheaper and lighter! But alas...

Marsh. See my post and comments on the electronics section.

I was able to find a '75 Twin Reverb in very good condition for around $900. All original with the Fender Blue Label speakers. I had my vintage amp professional go thru it, Had a few cold solder joints and the tube bias was way off. For another $100, I have what I've been looking for. Clean power, plenty of headroom, and absolutely love the tone. My Mullen G2 sounds great thru it. I always wanted to try a Milkman. I'm sure they are great, but where I live, nobody sells them, and I didnt want to spend thousands on an amp I could not try out, and Im sure they are all of what they are said to be. Love this Fender. I even like it with my strat plugged in to it as well.

Mike Perlowin wrote:Does it HAVE TO be a tube amp? I have a Quilter Steelaire, which is solid state, and sounds just fine.

The staple steel amps were the Peavey solid states.

Something to consider is an "immediacy" of reaction between solid state and tube when playing and picking.

I would think solid state is a little faster response and supports the complicated tones created by a psg.

Depends on one's touch response and what they like after that.

James I'd say if you like a Fender tube amp you'd like the Milkman stuff... I'd say overall the MM's have the capacity to deliver much more bass than a vintage real Fender (just in my experience) I know Tim voices them to have more bass available for the range of steel and assumes you can just roll it out if you dont want it.

But he makes great quality amps for sure. Granted I just can't get past an old Fender... but I'd choose a MM over a Peavy 100 out of 100 times.... (or maybe 110 out of 100 if thats possible?)

But yea I get wanting to play one first... but if you DO take the leap from afar I'd be shocked if you hated it!

for a long time i used a few tube amps and speaker combos for different things.

for home use, recording or accompanying a singer and acoustic guitar only, i used a fender deluxe reverb. i usually used it with a 15" altec 418 speaker, and sometimes with a jbl e 120.

for most club playing with a full band including drums, i used a twin reverb into the altec 418b, with two tubes pulled (2x6L6).

for loud gigs (outside or in a loud band) i used the twin with 4 6L6s, played into the altec and another speaker, either a the jbl e120 or a d130 that i have.

as pointed out, this is kind of the dilemma with tube amps....you want just the right amount of power for the gig. too much power and you can't get the tone you're paying for with a tube amp, not enough and you're fighting the hairy overtones and leaning your ear toward the amp all night.

i bought a fender twin tonemaster when they first came out. it doesn't sound quite as good as my other setups in ideal situations, but because of the built in attenuator it sounds very good in all situations, and because of that i pretty much stick with the tonemaster for everything. it also weighs less than the deluxe, so carrying it across an open field to play a 40 minute festival set isn't as painful.

you might as well buy what you think you want, and resign yourself to the fact that you'll buy all the other options at some other point as well.

I think this might do the trick for medium gigs where a Deluxe Reverb is not enough but a Twin is a back breaker.

• 40 Watts
• 35 lbs

https://shop.fender.com/en-US/guitar-am ... 00000.html

Here are a couple of clips at home.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKSSeJRMKPN/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKAMZhzs8rj/

Or he could do what the rest of us did and buy a whole bunch of amps ..

James Simiele wrote:I was able to find a '75 Twin Reverb in very good condition for around $900. All original with the Fender Blue Label speakers. I had my vintage amp professional go thru it, Had a few cold solder joints and the tube bias was way off. For another $100, I have what I've been looking for. Clean power, plenty of headroom, and absolutely love the tone. My Mullen G2 sounds great thru it. I always wanted to try a Milkman. I'm sure they are great, but where I live, nobody sells them, and I didnt want to spend thousands on an amp I could not try out, and Im sure they are all of what they are said to be. Love this Fender. I even like it with my strat plugged in to it as well.

75 Twin is a good amp, $900 appears to be right in the price range +/- if it's really clean and performing well. The Fender Blue label speakers are ok, maybe a bit strong in the mid range. These are typically Oxford or Utah . These amps are rated at 100 watts, (85 is more likely) they have a nice clean tremelo and reverb. They are very heavy ! Just remember this amp is now 45 years old . A good tech can get this amp in shape for another 45 years You can't find a better amp in THIS category for under a grand You can't kill these amps. Yep, great with the Strat and the Tele as well. Many have been using a Twin for Double duty for decades .

Congrats !

I have a 74 and a 75 Twin Reverbs. One is 85w the other 135w. Both are Ultra Linear with master volume controls. I rebuild the 74 in 2015. Loud and proud but heavy as a truck.

1974 85 watt Twin Reverb is not ultralinear (circuit changes and ultralinear transformer to give 135 Watts) unless someone modified it to be. Mid-70s Master Volume Twins are generally nominally labeled 100 Watts, but I agree with Tony that it's probably more like 85 RMS before clipping, same as earlier versions. Once they went Master Volume (circa 71/72), they didn't really change the circuit until the ultralinears came in.

The generally accepted dates for ultralinear silverface/late-blackface amps are '77-'82. I've never seen one with earlier markings (pot/transformer/speaker codes or serial number), though I suppose there might be some from late '76. I think they sorta' used the same "model year" approach that the automobile companies used back then.

Many steel players seem to like the ultralinear Twin Reverbs for steel - they do have extended headroom and sound very good. I think they're also for jazz guitar. A lot of guitar players find tthe ultralinears too clean - and that's fine for us because it has generally depressed their prices.

Just to chime in, I agree with everyone about the Fenders. From my experience with my Fender Tone Master, it's a great amp for casual country gigs - it's light and has that Twin sound, but the weaknesses Bob Hoffnar pointed out are a consideration. For my solo and improv gigs, it kind of craps out on me whenever I play dissonant lows or with more intricate harmonics.



I have an Fyi amp head (through a Peavy Black Widow) that I really like and a '74 Dual Showman head (through the same speaker). When I first got it I was really disappointed, and then I had it blackfaced, and now it's magic - something you may want to consider with your new Twin. Congratulations and Best of Luck!

I love it.. me and Tony have had the same "chime ins' on about a million threads... but I love ya Tony P.!

I always so I can't imagine how loud the band has to be for a Deluxe to not be loud enough... I play 90 percent of my gigs on a Deluxe Reverb (a real one from the 60's)

I can see it not being enough for a few reasons though. Generally my Deluxe is set about 7-8 on volume and the Bass/Treb are somewhere around 6ish.

If the amp has to sit a long way from you.. 10 feet or more... it might not be enough clean... I usually like my amp relatively close to me as sometimes I want to add or subtract some verb depending on the tune. (ballads and slow more verb)

It is also almost never that I do not have a sound man and good PA sound reinforcement at every gig I do.... if you had to totally fill up a room and the amp was not mic'ed up it might not be enough.

If you are playing out side and the amps is a ways from you that might want a bigger amp.

But DAMN a Deluxe is loud! (Granted I also don't like pristine cleans on steel.. I dont want it distorting, unless i do and then i run a pedal, but there is plenty of headroom for me at 7-8) Again.. I like some hair on my tone... I think Lloyd Green at Panther hall is about is great of tone as you can want and that is a tube amp that is sometimes pushed into straight up distortion.

I'd say its dependent of your drummer and stage volume of course. I actually really try to NOT get any steel back in my monitor but if worse comes to worse (like a packed show with folks right up on the stage and loud a tiny bit of fill from the monitor sometimes will help that... but putting it through a monitor is by definition re-amping it and I try to avoid it if I can)

The other thing I'd say is that it is VERY important what SPEAKER you have in it... the clean headroom of a JBL or a modern speaker with a BIG magnet and high wattage handling will help it keep up.

The MAGNET of the speaker is super important I've figured out.. you probably want a big magnet and Ceramic hold up better than alnico in my experience.

I do have other amps and my "I dont know what i'm getting my self into amp is a VibroVerb with the 15" JBL and if THAT is not loud enough.. I don't need to play with that band!"

Good luck either way... lord knows a Twin is perfect for steel if you want to carry it!

(Full disclosure that I am NOT a solid state guy and am one of the few on here that abhor Peavy amps. I usually say ABP (anything but PV))

And as I said before the MM amps are great.

I'd also say if you are coming from guitar world and you are a tube amp guy... well you'll probably like tube amps for steel too. When I first got into steel I bought a Steel King Fender... couldn't figure out what wasn't inspiring until I had a small gig and played it with a Princeton with a 12" speaker (no drummer gig) and the I sold that Steel King the next day.