Recording Steel... Less Really IS More

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 25 Aug 2006 12:52 pm

My session work is usually pretty understated, anyway!

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 27 August 2006 at 07:35 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 25 Aug 2006 2:12 pm

Really nice playing Donny, fit perfectly with the song. I do much the same single-and-two-note style in similar context.

This thread makes me think of some times I've had other steelers in the audience; I always think, "shoot, if they're expecting to hear a lot of hot playing they're going to be disappointed for the most part, unless we do our "hot playing tunes"... because I'm more interested in playing some tasty, expressive parts than hot licks, unless it's a "hot lick" song.

Actually I think I'm lucky, in my beginning years I listened mostly to songs with steelers backing vocalists more than solo CDs, except for Lloyd Greene's "Shades of Steel", which even though is a solo CD, Lloyd plays with impeccable taste as always. I listened more to stuff like Poco, Linda Ronstadt (with great tasty steelers like Sneaky Pete and Dan Dugmore...didn't Weldon record with her too?), country tunes with Buddy, Day and Lloyd... and you can't find better backup to learn from than these guys.

An old friend of mine (who will remain nameless) can play me under the table without even trying. When other musicians are in the audience they are always amazed. His name is well-known here in the forum.... I truly understand Jimmy Day's (in)famous remark when I hear him play because I wish I could play like that.... "and then I wouldn't", unless it was for a steel show or solo CD... it's just too much stuff unless you're wanting to amaze other musicians, and that's not what most artists want you for. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 25 August 2006 at 03:19 PM.]

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 25 Aug 2006 2:52 pm

According to the Steely Dan website:

Less is More

Less is Paul

Less is Brown

Less is Less

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 25 Aug 2006 3:43 pm

I find listening to the viola in string quartets very helpful in understanding how to become an essential internal part of the music.

Also looking into Ellington arrangments, in particular the trombone section, has opened my ears up quite a bit. They are often very simple perfect little moves. The guy was a genious.

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 25 Aug 2006 6:15 pm

Don't overplay, but also, don't underplay. Everytime I play, regardless of the instrument, I always ask myself, "do I need to play this note? Is it necessary in context?" There are some projects I play in that call for non-stop shred, and others that call for bone-simple. I wish more singers would learn this

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 25 Aug 2006 6:52 pm

If it works for you Twayn, that's great... but if I was thinking of things like "do I need to play this note? Is it necessary in context?" while I'm playing, I wouldn't be able to play a damm thing. I've known guys who graduated from GIT who told me they think "what scale/mode/harmonic structure etc. should I play here?" while they play.... I can't see how anyone could play thinking things like that...and in fact the ones who told me that couldn't play all that well, or from the heart...sound like an exercise book... They asked what I think of when I play and I said "Nothing. Just feeling the song." They told me "yeah, that's what the instructors said, learn everything you can, then forget it...(or at least don't think about it when you play). But whatever works for whoever.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 25 August 2006 at 08:01 PM.]

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 25 Aug 2006 7:03 pm

Reminds me of the old Larry London story, back with the Everly's... after a show, went to a club to relax... country band... kid playing drums asked Larry if he wanted to sit in, Larry said sure... kid couldn't wait to learn from the king. So... country band, Larry played snare and hi-hat... kid got pissed, said, "Shoot, he didn't show me nothin'!"

Dumb kid...

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Mikey D...

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 25 Aug 2006 7:50 pm

We all love speedpicking and every steel player today needs to know how to speedpick. But that style of picking is rarely needed in the studio. Producers are looking for a sweet sound, rich tone, and a meaningful musical statement.
We need speedpicking skills for our bar bands! And for our Pedal Steel Guitar CDs. And once in a while in a recording studio... like once every three years!

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 26 August 2006 at 01:22 AM.]

Charles Tilley · Post by **Charles Tilley** » 26 Aug 2006 2:33 am

I just wonder what the producer was thinking when J.D.Maness did "MISTY" with Ray Stevens. MAN, what a ride!!!!!

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 26 Aug 2006 5:41 am

I thought that was Wimpy...? I don't know...

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Mikey D...

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 26 Aug 2006 6:04 am

That "Misty" solo is one of my favorites of all time...but, in the context of the song, it's just right. The whole arrangement is a "wild horses being held back" feel. It cooks on high but doesn't qiute boil over. The underlying excitement finally explodes in the solo in a sort of "release" and then returns to the main theme. I think it's a great example of masterful arranging, and using the "tools" available in the session to "write a compelling story".

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 26 Aug 2006 6:06 am

and it was J.D. for sure.

Charles Curtis · Post by **Charles Curtis** » 26 Aug 2006 6:36 am

If my memory serves me right, the tablature for that; "Misty" (run) is available at Jay Dee's website. www.jaydeemaness.com

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 26 Aug 2006 9:50 am

Then there was Weldon’s hot Intro and Solo on Connie Smith's "I'll Come Running" that was recently discussed in Bill Hankey’s post Muscle-bound Arthritic Fingers Foiling Speedpick

I’ll take the liberty of linking to Tony Prior’s mp3 of that song… thanks Tony!

I‘ll Come Running - mp3

It seems like the 1970s were a real heyday for the steel guitar. A lot of new and different stuff managed to break through. In the 80s Ricky Skaggs featured some speedpicking solos on pedal steel (Bruce Bouton). In general though you really have to hunt and peck to find speedpicking on hit records.

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 26 August 2006 at 10:54 AM.]

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 26 Aug 2006 11:56 am

Hey, talk about simple but effective backup, remember a guy named Jerry Garcia? ...oops, sorry!

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 26 August 2006 at 12:57 PM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 26 Aug 2006 12:13 pm

I'm wondering what would be the correct procedure if a player/singer used the Pete Drake talking steel guitar? The high tech precision timing, as to where the steel would fit, becomes scrambled into a mass of confusion in the recording studio. IMHO

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 26 Aug 2006 12:37 pm

The talk box isn't as popular now as it was years ago. It was used quite a bit by guitarists in the 1970s, although Pete Drake predates that with hit record "Forever" (1965) and his Talking Steel Guitar album.

I don't think we'll be hearing any new "talking steel guitar" backup on CDs anytime soon, although you never know. The wah-wah pedal has made a bit of a comeback in recent years.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 26 Aug 2006 1:23 pm

Exactly Doug. I find that steel guitar players talk to eachother. I think that they are inundated with alot teaching materials and knee levers that will never be useful in the real world of professional playing. Less IS more.

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 26 Aug 2006 1:29 pm

I've always said that my best weapon in the studio is not knowing enough to overplay!

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 26 Aug 2006 1:36 pm

Doug,

When I played steel for Bob Sweet Sr. in the New Lebanon N.Y. recording studio, the sound man was baffled by my volume pedal. He had a problem making the proper adjustments. He apparently had not worked with a pedal steel prior to my visit.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 26 Aug 2006 2:56 pm

A lot of recording engineers have never recorded pedal steel guitar before. Some of them get freaked out by the volume pedal. They want a consistent volume level throughout, and they don't understand how pedal steel players use the volume pedal.

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 26 August 2006 at 03:59 PM.]

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 26 Aug 2006 3:15 pm

Kevin, I agree about simplifying things. Nowadays I'm now playing a S-10 w/3 & 4, and that covers everything I need to play. Heck, Lloyd Green gets some awesome stuff... with no 4th string lower, and Jerry Byrd played mighty sweet with no pedals at all!

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 26 August 2006 at 04:20 PM.]

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 26 Aug 2006 9:09 pm

Good topic Doug! I was hired for a project, several years ago and I was determined to impress the songwriter / artist with some fast, modern speedpicking licks. But, to my surprise, most of his tunes were ballads, which I actually felt more at ease in playing. After cutting 3 tunes and getting ready to pack it up, he asked me to cut one more. I listened to the tune, which , was very simple, but had some very pretty lyrics. I played it as simple and as pretty as I could do it. I went into the control room to listen to the cut and the artist (Terry Jones) was in tears and speechless. The song had been about his father,unbeknown to me. I guess I hit it on the button and touched him to his heart, without overplaying or any speed picking. I learned an important lesson that day, that less is oftentimes better than more.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 26 Aug 2006 9:52 pm

Wow, that's a great story, John, and exactly on point. Simple and pretty says it all. Thanks for sharing that story. I too spent years learning speedpicking, and discovered that it's great for the bandstand, but it does not impress in the studios.

One time I was asked to play a wild/crazy solo on a fast 2-beat tune. They said "just pull out all the stops and go nuts". So I did some speedpicking stuff, and they said... hmmmmm, too many notes. So then I played a lazy distorted slide guitar style solo and they loved it. Very few notes, just sliding up the frets with some distortion, nothing fancy. People want to hear slides, vibrato, and feeling from a steel guitar, not a machine gun attack of 16th notes. They can get that from a guitar, piano, fiddle, mandolin, etc. Don't get me wrong, I like speedpicking in certain songs, but the average listener wants to hear more feeling from a steel guitar.

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 26 August 2006 at 10:54 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 26 Aug 2006 10:54 pm

I'm imagining the classic David Lindley lapsteel solo in "Running On Empty".... and then imagining the same song with a solo by Yngwie Malmsteen...