The Steel Guitar Forum

Godfrey,
I understand some churches won't allow a pedal steel to be played there because they consider it to be a "bar" guitar but there are three references in Psalms to giving praises to the Lord on an instrument of 10 strings.
Erv

Erv Niehaus wrote:Godfrey,
I understand some churches won't allow a pedal steel to be played there because they consider it to be a "bar" guitar but there are three references in Psalms to giving praises to the Lord on an instrument of 10 strings.
Erv

So are the guitar, bass and drums found in bars.

Every denomination has the right to decide what they like in church.

Some people won't touch money and you'll find that in every church.





The Multivox LD-2












Wait for it....

Trek2 makes crossovers for SS Leslie’s... I have a 710 that has one, plus a new Mercotac., now I can use it with my T2 combo pedal. If you find a Mercotac seized up you can sometimes free them up!! Keep them upright to prolong their life. Burned up an EV12L in my Vibratone... never block the vent on the back of the magnet... got a JBL E in there now, lots of fun with a 100W Marshall straight in. Useful mod, add a switching jack so you can bypass all that foot switch/crossover stuff.

Stephen Cowell wrote:Trek2 makes crossovers for SS Leslie’s... I have a 710 that has one, plus a new Mercotac., now I can use it with my T2 combo pedal. If you find a Mercotac seized up you can sometimes free them up!! Keep them upright to prolong their life. Burned up an EV12L in my Vibratone... never block the vent on the back of the magnet... got a JBL E in there now, lots of fun with a 100W Marshall straight in. Useful mod, add a switching jack so you can bypass all that foot switch/crossover stuff.

Stephen you have the good stuff!

I've seen those crossovers on Michael's Trek site.


How does it sound? You have the electronic one right? Crosses over at 150hz? Turned your two channel into a single?

The 710 is a cool solid state Leslie, I would think for steel. It has a 15 in the cab firing down alongside the Rotosonic 6x9" rotor. The spin action of the rotor would affect the sound out of the 15" a little to get the 15" to "rotorize" a bit is my thinking.

The 710 Rotosonic with SS amp, how does that do for steel?

And since you have the Vibratone you can layer the two.

Stock 710 ss amp? 9 pin?

Does yours look like this?


The 710 with a tri-amp situation could prove interesting balancing the three main speakers. The 6x9 reverb speakers off to the side could also be used for a Leslie sim.

The EV in your Vibratone musta' been "vibrating" to blow.
Yeah there isn't much room in a Vibratone on the backboard up against the speaker. Was this with the crossover in circuit? And is it the standard VIbratone xover? Or?

How does the E sound now compared to EV?

The bypass switch is a smart mod.



Inquiring minds want to know.

Greg said: Perhaps the best starting base is one that already has proven steel guitar sound. Use a steel amp with an add on rotor in front of the speaker.

Here Greg park this in front of your Twin.




The Cutshaw

Yeah, mine looks exactly like that... I need to get it out of storage and play with it. When you put a big speaker in a Vibratone, you have to space the baffle out... you can see the rotor bracket touching the grille on the slot. The back of the EV was flush against the cab back even with the spacer, hence the fried VC.

I’ll post more when I can get away from this phone... hate typing on it!

Stephen Cowell wrote: you can see the rotor bracket touching the grille on the slot. The back of the EV was flush against the cab back even with the spacer, hence the fried VC.

Interesting. Isn't much room to move the grill panel out any further unless a new cab was built.

And the rotor hole is 7" no matter if it's an 8, 10 or 12 inch speaker Leslie unit.



No need to cut larger for a 12" otherwise the sound will leak past the edge of the rotor.

The hole will, by default, act as a "horn throat" which has an effect on the sound of the speaker. Part of the classic sound IMO.

8" speakers were found in the different brand organs with internal Leslie units.

Well, i"m still interested in the G37 but I see almost no one has bought one. The two people that I know have them, use them for pedal steel and guitar and absolutely love them. User comments indicate that they cover the basic Vibrasonic sound despite having a down firing woofer and that the rotating horns add a lot of swirling effect that is just not duplicated by any effect unit. All of this despite the theory that says otherwise.

Waiting to hear about Kevin's experience between his G37 and the Neo Vent 2 both at home and on the gig.

Greg Cutshaw wrote: comments indicate that they cover the basic Vibrasonic sound despite having a down firing woofer

Listening to a country station playing the latest, I'm noticing there is more usage of a "Leslie" effect on the songs.

And these are alongside the new "country-rap" style songs as well, played on rotation.

Chalker used a Leslie.

Coming from the Hammond community, there tends to be this double-think for the newer gear coming out. Either problems with the parts, because they are redesigns and only available from a dealer, horn drivers blowing, motors not working, the electronic circuit now part of the rotor motors burning out and not being an easy fix, so the tried and true tends to be the surer thing.

This motor system:


replaced this:


Plus the classic sound is always the noted issue.

There are those who will not put anything in their Leslies other than a V21 driver and a P15LL woofer both made by Jensen America before the company got bought up by Italy along with Tungsol vintage 6550's at $300 a pair.

That said, it never hurts to have more than one type and model of Leslie.

This way as the trends move in and out, you're covered.

And if one blinks out, you have a back up.

Working production on major concerts, the riders always ask for 2 Leslies. And they are always the tube varieties.

There seems to be a cyclical in play.

When Leslie was American, they went in the direction of the solid state designs. The models went from tiny to gigantic.

The Leslie 860 was a compact dual rotor speaker using solid state parts.









Basically the G37 is a redux of the 860.

In fact the 860 is only 25 inches tall.

For guitar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_OSlcT5qSc

For organ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h1vX6GF9Vg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSkKYr62FNo


Of all the solid state Leslies, the 860 is most likely the more sought after because of its compactness.
Some have gutted the 860 and put in different amps.
The rotors are the traditional Leslie horn with a foam rotor but a 12" speaker. The upper rotor's shelf is on a slant in order to get the smaller foot print. Something that goes against the laws of gravity, but hey, that's what they decided to do.

The solid state amps and circuitry were fraught with problems and still today there are owners of these SS models looking for help with power supply problems and rotor control because the switching is now electronic built into the amp. And it takes an electronics expert versed in these amps themselves to track down problems.

As one may venture a guess, the interest and the desire for these SS models waned significantly and the standard 122/147 Leslies made in the 60's and 70's are the speaker of choice to this day. You can find the SS models going for next to nothing, or the larger Pro 900 series are gutted for their prized JBL speakers and drivers.

The 860 when they pop up for sale go for a good price and some still use them because they are compact. But you need a preamp pedal to plug into this speaker which adds another large cost to the rig.

The modern "quiet" circuitry would be the Trek pedal if you don't find a Leslie Combo III preamp pedal.

Trek UC-1A


Still the 860 is lacking in bass because of the 12" and small cabinet.

Someone decided to add a "port" to get more bass. Whether it worked or not...

You rarely if ever see these SS models on stage or in studios.




Whatever we've discussed here is a basic map of what happened from the time Don was around and in control and what happened after.

If history repeats.

Armed with more info, one is free to make their own decisions.

If tiny is your thing, this may get you there.


Little Lanilei Rotary Wave Speaker 12x12x18 inches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBGxYfQ ... tube_gdata


Designed for recording

I use a Leslie Studio 12 with a small Nord keyboard set up right in front of my PS, very similar to the G7. I don't run the steel thru it since I'm playing organ if not steel guitar. For me it's a separate amp so I can switch between keys and PS in some tunes. It is a challenge to lug around but I have a small dolly that does the trick for most load-ins. I also have an old Leslie 760 that stays at a practice room with a B3, but what I really like about the Studio 12 is you can adjust the speed of the high and low rotors separately, unlike the original speakers, making the low rotor a little faster and the high rotor a little slower. I see that the G7 has the same speed adjustments. I'll have to see if I can set up a switch box to send the PS into the Leslie speaker easily.

Here's my setup for my Hammond. I could use it for steel, but don't really bother. I have 3 leslies and have a modified 145 'shorty' at my studio. I use high powered drivers and solid state relays on the motor switching. I drive them with separate valve amps. I have 2 vintage Orange amps which have loads of lower mid and bottom end.

Greg Cutshaw wrote:I had a Morely Rotating Wah pedal in the 1960's that had a really unique Leslie simulator using a can filled with oil.

The Morely name is a play on Leslie

More - ly
Less - lie

get it?
true story

Great thread. I've got a 303C, that I used with a keyboard for a short while, otherwise used as a work surface. Any opinion how this might work in a band setting, before I go to the trouble to dig it out and drag it to a practice? I did plug it up recently, and its still working well, quiet, etc. PS - I usually use a Twin with an E9 steel.

My hat is off to all the detailed expert ideas and experience in the thread.

You guys know a lot more about this whole subject than me.

But maybe I can add something useful:

About 15 years ago, I bought a Leslie that had been removed from a home organ. Cost $35. I think it had a 10-inch speaker. I had to get an electronics tech do some kind of modification. I forget what that was.

For a ported speaker "cabinet," I used a cardboard box that sat over the unit. I cut out a square port in the box.

I haven't played through my Leslie in a long time, but I enjoyed the sound. It didn't break the bank, either. Now, like a lot of my gear, I think it's buried deep in a storage unit.

Kevin Quick wrote:That is why I'm trying out the ventilator. Haven't gigged with it yet.

I have owned a few leslie speakers over the years. The Neo Ventilator is the best pedal version I have heard yet. I have a Fender Vibratone too - I put a Jupiter Alnico 10" speaker in there but its still pretty muffled because of the foam. The above post about the coaxial Eminence is a good idea. Celestion also makes some full range speakers meant for modeling amplifiers that would do well in there too

Greg Cutshaw wrote:Another really detailed review of the Leslie G37:
http://www.in2guitar.com/leslieg37.html

Hi, all! The review in the quoted post above is mine, on my site that is linked in my signature below. I've had the unit about a year and a half at this point. I own both a Motion Sound Sidewinder and the G37 and love both. Before buying both I understood that they had 12AX7 preamps and solid state power amps and I knew I probably wouldn't like that. I feed both amps with the output of a Helix modeler which is running a Fender Deluxe preset that allows me to get the sound I like. I prefer a distorted tube power amp with a low-med gain preamp sound and that is easy to get with the modeler. I just turn off the modeler's cab simulation and run into the preamp clean. I get a great sound that way.

When you double tap the speed button the Leslie offers the sound of the de-synchronized rotors, which is very complex due to the different ballistics of the two rotors. as mentioned before, that sucker weighs 100 lbs. It is located in my guitar room at home and isn't going to travel very often. By the way, David Gilmour uses the G27 unpowered, cab-only version of this unit. They weren't available when I started sniffing around them. You could run an external amp into the unit. Unfortunately the amp can't be disconnected from the shared power supply. Hammond suggests you clip the speaker leads at the amp and turn the amp's volume down, saying it will be fine without a signal running through it.


Alongside a friendly Deluxe Reverb to show scale

The Motion Sound Sidewinder weighs 40 lbs and is far more portable than the Leslie. It has a milkier sound than the Leslie and its rotor is vertical rather than horizontal. Here is a pic looking UP into the cab. In the pic, up is front and down is back:


In the front chamber are the rotor, the motor pulley and belt, and the built-in dynamic mic. In the back chamber are the speaker, the amp and preamp, the motor, and the spring reverb tank. It's a great little unit. If you want one you'll have do do what I did and find one used. They aren't too expensive.

All the best,

Bob

I used to have a real Leslie and they’re pretty cool, I used it for organ. But I would never haul it around, I’d use a Boss Rotary pedal for gigs.
If it was for recording tho, I’d definitely get one.

I have had a couple of Hammonds and a fair amount of Leslie speakers. My recommendation for versatility and bang for the buck is to:
A. keep an eye out for passive Leslie Orpheus speaker cabs. They come with the motor, cab and speaker. You can put any speaker you want in them and rig up a manual speed control and drive the speaker with any amp you want. The possibilities are endless.
B. If you all ready have a Hammond organ and Leslie setup, You can install an effects loop into the Hammond and play anything you want through the Hammond preamp, amp, or Leslie amp.
The last 2 Orpheus Leslie cabs I have bought were under $200 and I even put a 15" driver in one temporarily. Sounded good. I can play any instrument I want through either the organ that then goes to an H21, or routed to another amp that then goes to an Orpheus, or plug into any head and rig the output to a Leslie Orpheus. It's also possible to bypass the amp in many old Leslie cabs except not the really old field coil speaker Leslies like the H21.
There are so many cool options for leslies in the studio...
For the road? you may need to get one of the modern laslies or alternative rotating speaker diffraction units.
Those Morley pedals are really cool, but not the same.

Patrick Timmins wrote:I have had a couple of Hammonds and a fair amount of Leslie speakers. My recommendation for versatility and bang for the buck is to:
A. keep an eye out for passive Leslie Orpheus speaker cabs.

They look like these:





This is going for 5 Benjamins on fleabay.

I still think for guitar a sideways mounted rotor sounds the best. The horizontal ones throw sound behind the speaker. Great for sustaining tones like an organ but for short pinging notes off a stringed instrument, the rotation and time for the rotor to get back to the players ears is too long. With the rotor sideways the player hears the rotation better. Plus the speaker is facing outward not down allowing the mids of the guitar to be heard.

The Vibratone is the ideal guitar rotor setup IMO.

Has anyone tried the TC Electronics Vibraclone?
It's supposed to mimic the Vibratone.
Erv

Erv Niehaus wrote:Has anyone tried the TC Electronics Vibraclone?
It's supposed to mimic the Vibratone.
Erv

It has a similar ramp tone but I think it's missing the 200hz scoop that the Fender Vibratone had from the inline crossover.


The tube is the crossover that FENDER allegedly designed into the Vibratone to purportedly prevent the 10" speaker from blowing up, hence the classic sound of a Vibratone became that.

May not be an issue to some though.


To date no one (I've met) knows what the exact values or parts were in that tube.

There is a company that claims they figured it out.


A bass-blocker cap would be needed to get that crossover effect.

Since we're talking effects, has anyone tried the Nux Roctary with steel guitar?
Erv

https://www.amazon.com/NUX-Roctary-effe ... B01AWCG2KM

The Nux Roctary has both the Leslie sim and octave effect in one box for under $130. I've not yet tried it.

It looks interesting!
Erv