The Steel Guitar Forum

My new Sierra built by Ross Shafer is very stable. It's such an easy grab'n'go rig. It can spend a night in my car and be in tune the next evening for the gig.

Thanks
Dave

I would be surprised if any owner of a modern PSG were to come forward and say that his instrument didn't hold up. The design of these things hasn't changed a great deal but the materials and quality of build are being refined all the time.

Roy Peterman wrote:Donny, I probably should clarify as to what I mean "staying in tune". I am a stickler for playing in tune, so if I have to tweak a string here and there, that is the norm. I have had as I said in earlier posts that some guitars needed more tweaking than others. I do have compensators on my Legrande which help quite a bit. I would say that some amateur players have problems pitching (hearing) and intonation problems.

It's not only that, Roy, but also the way the guitar is strung and maintained, and the method used to tune it that can affect things. Not enough wraps around the tuning keys or loose keys will cause things to drift, as will tuning the guitar before you've played it for a few minutes, fine tuning down without "working" the pedals/levers, or not seating new strings firmly down at the nut and changer. There are lots of these "little things" that all of us pick up as we go, things we sometimes don't even think about, but even a newbie with good ears should learn them.

More arrows in the quiver, so to speak.

I have had so many steels over the years I can't even remember them all. They were all quite good with a notable exception,,, Sho buds.. As much as I love Sho Buds, i have never had one like so many others have had,, stable and solid as far as staying in tune is concerned.,,

Rack and barrel/ 2&1-w/2 hole 2&2 w/2hole- Super Pro.. Didn't matter, never had one that stayed in tune for very long, played or unplayed.. Thats over a dozen Buds, all gone, all had stabiity issues that I never had with other brands.. I realize there are a lot of good solid in tune Sho buds out there, but try as i might, I personally never once laid hands on one... maybe some day... bob

Williams 600 and virtually no cabinet drop.

I have a 1995 Pre RP Mullen D10 that stays in tune very well. Also had a Carter Starter of all things, that stayed in tune very very well after a modification to the infamous knee lever stops. David Mitchel had a Bryan Adams push/pull that NEVER went out of tune.

Williams 700. Also no cabinet drop.

I've had my SD12 Mullen G2 since July and once I got my coped locked in (and made sure the pull rods had a bit of play so I wasn't overtightening) I've rarely had to tune.

It's a brilliant design and very stable

Bob Carlucci wrote:I have had so many steels over the years I can't even remember them all. They were all quite good with a notable exception,,, Sho buds..

Although I have only owned a handful of pedal steels, my experience mirrors Bob's. I started on a 3 x 1 Red Baron, which I quickly outgrew. Traded it in on a brand-new 3 x 2 Pro-I. The 'Bud's fourth string lower would not return to pitch. Brought it to the top technician in town (Clem Schmitz) for the installation of an "F" lever, and asked him to check out the tuning problem. He made it better, but still not what I had hoped for.

Brought it back a while later to have a fourth knee lever installed, and asked Clem to tweak the pesky fourth string lower once again. No change. I asked him why that lower would not return to pitch, and he replied "well, it's a Sho-Bud." (Could this be one reason Lloyd does not lower his fourth string?)

Not long afterwards, I purchased a used D-10 push/pull from Clem. Problem solved. That was about forty years ago, and I'm still playing that D-10.

I put the 'Bud on consignment at Clem's Pedal Steel Guitar Emporium in Minneapolis. Eventually it sold; I took a big hit dollar-wise. I used the proceeds to fund the purchase of a 1929 Style-1 tricone, which I still play frequently. Although that Pro-I sounded great, it would not stay tuned. And I would consider essentially trading it for a vintage National one of the best moves I ever made.

Jack Hanson wrote:

Bob Carlucci wrote:I have had so many steels over the years I can't even remember them all. They were all quite good with a notable exception,,, Sho buds..

Although I have only owned a handful of pedal steels, my experience mirrors Bob's. I started on a 3 x 1 Red Baron, which I quickly outgrew. Traded it in on a brand-new 3 x 2 Pro-I. The 'Bud's fourth string lower would not return to pitch. Brought it to the top technician in town (Clem Schmitz) for the installation of an "F" lever, and asked him to check out the tuning problem. He made it better, but still not what I had hoped for.

Brought it back a while later to have a fourth knee lever installed, and asked Clem to tweak the pesky fourth string lower once again. No change. I asked him why that lower would not return to pitch, and he replied "well, it's a Sho-Bud." (Could this be one reason Lloyd does not lower his fourth string?)

Not long afterwards, I purchased a used D-10 push/pull from Clem. Problem solved. That was about forty years ago, and I'm still playing that D-10.

I put the 'Bud on consignment at Clem's Pedal Steel Guitar Emporium in Minneapolis. Eventually it sold; I took a big hit dollar-wise. I used the proceeds to fund the purchase of a 1929 Style-1 tricone, which I still play frequently. Although that Pro-I sounded great, it would not stay tuned. And I would consider essentially trading it for a vintage National one of the best moves I ever made.

Over the years here, a lot of our friends have been angered by my discussing the tuning stability issues I have had with Buds.. Problem is i am not bad mouthing those guitars.. I LOVE them and kept on trying to find the right one for me,, the one that would simply work the way I wanted.. Just never found one that was 100% dependable.
Many others have obviously had better success.
I always defaulted to other brands that would stay in tune under the tough road conditions i subjected them to.. MSA, Carter, Marlen, GFI, and other made the cut tuning wise, but none of them ever compared favorably with that great Bud sound , not to my ears anyway.. It was always a struggle, for decades.. i would keep a Bud on the road for a few months, get annoyed at it popping a string far too soon,or going out of tune when the lights hit it, or the temperature dropped, or when it was simply played harder than it wanted to be played.. Loved the look, sound, and action of all those Buds I owned.. however in the end, tuning stability always trumped all the other positive attributes I enjoyed with sho buds, and I always went back to steels I actually liked a lot less, but could play every night with fewer headaches.. i know that old Bud is out there somewhere, maybe now that I'm retired from playing "commercially" I'll find it before I am stardust.... bob

My Mullen was one of the best. I have had several people say "Bill never tunes it."

My Franklin is an early 90's .Only thing that effects it is temperature.Once it is settled in it stays.Over the years I've never even had to tune any pull over a smidgin on the nut.New strings ...very close.I use the same guage sets.

All of my past and current pedal steel guitars have been quite stable; but, I've always been one to keep fresh strings on my instruments.

MSA D10 mid 1970s
Emmons U12 early 1980s
Mullen U12 late 1990s pre-RP
Williams S10 400 Series
BMI S10 new

The only tuning complaint would be with the Emmons. On the rare occasion I would break a string, that guitar would go way out of tune, all strings, all changes.

Donny's points are spot on. Another thing to add to his list is this. When you sit down to play, especially after setting up the guitar, rub the palm of your hand back and forth on the strings before checking and adjusting the tuning.

In my (albeit limited) experience, it seems that guitars that have all the changer stops at the endplate (ZB, Emmons push-pull, any pull-release) hold their tuning well.

I've never had to alter the settings on my Marlen pull-release since I initially set it up, nearly ten years ago

Same with my ZB and Emmons PP (both setup by me in 1990)

2014 Zum Encore S10 stays in tune out of the case and rarely a broken string.

Being from New England I really to let my Carter U12 warm up before a gig to tune up. I have used a hair drier at times. But, I am also a stickler for being in tune. Tom ( Ducky ) Belliveau

Jack Stoner wrote:I've never had a steel that didn't hold the tuning after new strings settle in.

If someone is having problems staying in tune its usually a string problem. Either old worn out strings or crappy new strings.

I concur, or strings were wrapped poorly at the tuning key post.

If a Steel is not holding tune we really need to ask ourselves "why not " ?

The ball end is secured at one end, the other end is secured at the tuner peg. It's a guitar string. !

Like Jack and many others, I've never owned a Steel that didn't tune and hold tune, unless the string was bad or wrapped poorly. Many brands use the exact same tuners as well.
4 x Emmons
5 X Sho Buds
4 x Carters
Various others

The Steels had different PLAYING nuances but tuning and holding tune was never an issue, I never got rid of a Steel because it didn't hold tune.

Other than one MSA S12, I have only owned Emmons P/P D10 guitars. My current P/P is a'76 model that Jimmy Crawford built for me in his basement. It stays in tune but needs an occasional tweaking. It's due for a tune up by Mike Cass but I'm not playing much and we just moved so it'll probably have to wait. I think it still sounds pretty good.

Had a ZB that Greg Lasser modded with the ball bearing roller nuts. Most stable guitar I've ever owned bar none. (no pun intended.)

I'm with Lyle Clary. Zum Encore S10 holds tuning and doesn't break strings. Thanks Bruce and Doug

The Emmons I’ve played through the decades have been pretty impressive when it comes to staying in tune. A lot of times I’ll pack one away after a gig, pull it out a week later and it’s still totally in tune.
Had a Sho-Bud Super Pro that I played for 20 or so years. It wasn’t as rock steady but it was a good steel nonetheless.

My '74 Sho-Bud Pro ll would be very stable if I ever get around to changing the worn nylon nuts. My Super Pro era Pro l is stable as the day is long.

I'm always amazed at how well my Rittenberry stays in tune.

Roy Peterman wrote:Maybe I am opening a can of worms, but I am curious with all the steel guitars out there, which guitars seem to hold their tuning the best. I played out of Nashville for 12 years and played numerous guitars. Some stayed in tune really well, and others needed constant attention. I played Sho-bud, Emmons, Marlen, Mullen guitars, tried Franklin, Dekley and some other less known guitars. I know there are a lot of variables, but I am wondering what other pickers experiences have been. I will say that the best guitar I ever had for staying in tune was a Pro-II. All the other guitars I have played were decent, but the worst was a Speedy West guitar built by Marlen. I do love the Emmons guitars though, but they have varied in tuning stability too. I might add that I don't have any experience with Zum steels.
(Sorry Tommy Detamore)

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I have had a Sho-Bud Pro II for many years. It stays in tune incredibly well. I also play a Carter D-10. I play out mostly with the Carter because it is so much lighter than the Sho-Bud. Once tuned prior to a show, the Carter stays in tune through 3 or 4 sets a night.

I have owned quite a few steels in the past fifty or so years. I currently play an older Sierra keyless crown series uni. I love it but it is very temperature sensitive. Every time I sit down I need to tweak the open string tuning to compensate for the temperature changes - but once tuned it stays in tune pretty well. I once owned a wood neck '72 MSA D12 that you could leave in the case for months and it would be dead on when you took it out. I suspect the big difference is the temperature expansion of the largely metal Sierra vs. the mostly wood MSA but who's to say? They are both great guitars and far superior to the untalented would-be player that used them.