The Steel Guitar Forum

Jim, another fabulous cartoon. Nearly spat my dinner out! Anyone might think that you had secretly taken a worm out of the can and put it on a hook........


Cheers
Calum

Personally, I fail to see this topic as one of those ‘opening a can of worms’ type topics. I never intended it to be of that type.

Ken

I think it's all meant in good fun. Tuning (and its various aspects) has been discussed on the Forum countless times and there are lots of differing opinions on the 'whys and wherefores'.

I do think that experience teaches us what we should stress over and what are the pitfalls with what is, essentially, a mechanical device.

Ken Boi wrote:Personally, I fail to see this topic as one of those ‘opening a can of worms’ type topics. I never intended it to be of that type.

Of course you didn't. But I'm guessing you haven't yet read the myriad endless threads on just intonation, equal temperament, meantone temperament, etc. If that's not a trip down the rabbit hole, I don't know what is.

(Of course, that doesn't mean you shouldn't engage with the subject. Playing in tune is kinda important.)

Point taken, gents. The topic was just one of those things that irks me in my playing (and should). I'll do some searches and see what the other threads covered. Thanks for the responses.

Deleted. Everything's been said in other threads.

See what I mean, Ken?

Pete Burak wrote:I still use a casssette player with Pitch-Control when I need to get the track in tune with the Steel.
I hate playing between the frets .

I have it too. Old cassettes get out of control sometimes.

Record yourself playing with your band and continually hone your In-Tune-ation.

Hi Ken,

You are getting I hope the responses you need from your thread. I love Jim's "Can" responses for all the various reasons.

I think Don gave the best response and that is good ears. I have just been playing steel for a year myself but having played guitar for 50 yrs. gave me good ears. Which has helped me greatly in the world of the steel guitar. I have hundreds of tracks collected over the years and some for steel just bought recently from Dave Hartley in the UK. who is a great player. The point here is that tracks vary in pitch depending when they were done. In the old days a lot of tuning was to a key board or by ear. Thus maybe the note was not true 440. In todays world of digital tuners etc. have made your turning easier. Computer programs have also assisted in allowing you to slow down a track and stay in pitch.

When I first started playing steel I was nervous about tuning pedals and levers. When I finally did that helped greatly. I know that there are many great players on the forum that will give us all good advice and for that us newbie's are forever greatful

But "Good Ear's" (I know good hands also for good tone is required)but without good ear's I think you are fighting an uphill battle.

Eg: you can always tell a musician that only plays by reading music that doesn't have good ears. versus one that does.

My two cents...

Just wanted to say that although this topic has been discussed in other threads
there is no reason for not starting a new conversation about tuning and intonation. Looking at older threads on any topic is a great idea but why not keep up the dialogue? IMHO the more people who share their experiences the better.

PS thanks for sharing that link to Paul's thread Bob! It's awesome.

Although fretless, playing PSG along with another instrument or track that is off pitch is probably more challenging for a player who’s played for many years. It requires overriding what has become instinctive hand/eye coordination. You also can’t play anything in the open position if you’re off pitch. In worst cases, I’ve retuned my guitar to match the pitch. But only a couple cents deviation is about all you can get by with before your setup starts getting strange.

Leo Grassl wrote:Just wanted to say that although this topic has been discussed in other threads
there is no reason for not starting a new conversation about tuning and intonation. Looking at older threads on any topic is a great idea but why not keep up the dialogue? IMHO the more people who share their experiences the better.

"Can of worms". "Rabbit hole". "See what I mean?"

Leo Grassl wrote:Just wanted to say that although this topic has been discussed in other threads
there is no reason for not starting a new conversation about tuning and intonation. Looking at older threads on any topic is a great idea but why not keep up the dialogue? IMHO the more people who share their experiences the better.

PS thanks for sharing that link to Paul's thread Bob! It's awesome.

I’m with you there Leo. I’d love a ‘live’ discussion on the whole intonation tuning thing.. its a Forum after all, not a stone tablet! Perhaps Jim could start a new thread with his tin and a carefully written disclaimer? Pytharogus could have you killed if you disagreed with his version of intonation so the debate is hardly new.........

Cheers
Calum

C. D. Maclean wrote:Perhaps Jim could start a new thread with his tin and a carefully written disclaimer? Pytharogus could have you killed if you disagreed with his version of intonation so the debate is hardly new.........

I don't have a "version of intonation" that I espouse. I just have a sense of humor. Rave on.

Working with drone tracks has been a big help to me.Been using Cello Drones for years. Sometimes I'll simultaneously use a tuner with a visual meter to make sure I'm spot on .Make sure I'm not kidding myself. I believe that my intonation keeps getting better and better because of this work.

Pro tip:

If you slather chorus or phase shifter on, copiously, no one will be able to tell if you're actually in-tune or not.

Jim Fogarty wrote:Pro tip:

If you slather chorus or phase shifter on, copiously, no one will be able to tell if you're actually in-tune or not.

That, and take advantage of an extra wide vibrato when it suits.

Tracks can be out of tune because of speed variations on the playback machine. Records, cassettes, and even CDs can play slightly slow or fast. That drives me crazy! You would think it a simple matter of placing the bar a bit higher or lower, but I really do rely on the visual placement of frets when I play. If tracks (or live musicians) are not tuned to the common A=440 standard, it's really hard for me to play along.

Well, I think that if intonation is bothersome to you AND you are working on improving it to your liking, you are on track to improvement. I think the only players who DON’T worry about intonation are
A) Perhaps, maybe, a few seasoned pros ( a handfull on earth)
B) Those who routinely play out of tune and don’t know/care.
The rest of us mortals deal with the demon.

I had a friend many years back who was just a hell of a nice guy, but one of the worst fiddle players you’ve ever heard. Horrible intonation! I remember once when he was dragging it out of the case and he commented “You know, besides the tone of this fiddle, I just LOVE the fact that it’s always in tune, every time I take it out!”

Arrrgh..