The Steel Guitar Forum

Tom Wolverton wrote:But the big problem (I think) is there is no criteria for “good tone”. The outputs from a FEM model would generate a lot of data that would leave me scratching my head saying “OK, what does all of this really tell us?”. This could be quite frustrating.

However, if you wanted to examine cabinet drop or thermal-elastic changes to the guitar’s tuning, a FEM model could do that fairly easily.

I think you are on to something there. But you would have to analyze at least two relatively similar instruments - one with generally accepted great tone and one with generally accepted bad tone - and see what the obvious differences are. You might also compare the results of two very good sounding but dissimilar steels to see what they have in common and what is different.

I personally know of four guys, Bill Ferguson, Larry Bullock, Jack Daughtery, Chet Gibson, all of whom owned or own Emmons guitars and every one sounds "Heavenly"! Now, I had a red one, which was the worst playing , sounding no good guitar I ever owned, and I've owned plenty. I once heard Ed Fulawka say that the neck of a steel guitar had nothing to do with tone, or sustain. I also owned a S 10 Emmons once which played and sounded wonderful, it had Buddy's signature underneath.

If you were to go to any major guitar mfg. company, pick thru 50 guitars hanging on the rack, built and handled by the same techs, you might find two, three, maybe four that were "special". You knew the minute you laid hands on it.

Same is true with steel guitars,people, cars, etc. No two pieces of wood are alike, even if they came from the same tree.

Harold Flynn, who worked for Shot Jackson back in the day, told me that Shot would "tune His steel bodies, and even His amps. If the piece didn't resonate, He might take a little material off, here or there, til He got it like He wanted. Just sayin! LP

On this subject...what would Buddy Emmons do? From first hand recollection he would simply rake across either or both necks unamplified and would be able to tell how good the guitar would respond tone wise..like one mantra says everything matters...not every prewar flathead was magical..oh but those that were...deep in the well for old Emmons D-10. Not all are created equal..but the arrow and the Indian is also pretty applicable

I would think Buddy Emmons knew on a deeper level what made a great sounding steel because he had to have known the confidential processes used to build Emmons guitars... Maybe not, I don't know.

I understand that Buddy would rake the strings and then grab a leg. If he could feel the vibrations of the strings in the leg, it was a good one.
Erv

Erv Niehaus wrote:I understand that Buddy would rake the strings and then grab a leg. If he could feel the vibrations of the strings in the leg, it was a good one.
Erv

Others claim that if you can feel the vibrations in the legs, energy is being transferred to the floor.

Georg Sørtun wrote:
With enough energy charged in a heavy PSG body, transfer of vibrations through to the floor indicates the build-up of sub-harmonics. Build-up of strong sub-harmonics tend to cause what is known as "blooming" – kick-back from delayed sympathetic vibrations, a desirable effect that results in warmer tone and increased sustain.

So you add a good contact pickup to the floor, and...

--Al Evans

So does anybody know one of Emmons' secrets of sound?

Anything to do with a horseshoe ring or other conspiracies?

I would however like to hear Ross Shafer on the subject.
I hope he reveals that the neck has nothing to do with it.

Where did you attach the contact PUs, Georg?

I’ve heard that everything done to the Emmons push pull was done with tone in mind. The little wire hooks keep the guitar resonating around pickup and not being dampened into the cross bars by rods. The cut out for the tone control and neck switch was done that way for a reason to make tone better.

I have seen Jeff Newman play different steels and they all sounded marvelous. So , the guitar plays a little in the sound quality but the player plays a greater part in this.
IMHO

I think a large part has to do with the amount of aluminium in the changer fingers. They were pretty massive and solid compared to the thin scissors of the all-pull guitars.

I have always thought the changer made the biggest difference. I am sure Ron tried to keep all the other factors that affect the sound the same as much as possible when he made the La Grande. But my
La Grande was good tonewise but not as good as my push pulls. It would be interesting to hear from someone who had a push pull conversion. Also I believe pull release guitars have a better sound than all pull guitars generally due to the mass in the changer finger. All pull guitars seem to all have thin scissor fingers.

I am far from an expert, but lately, as I begin to play more in tune, I am noticing a better tone as a result. Just as an experiment, I tried tuning just a little sour, and my sustain decreased. I think that sweet harmonies want to "bloom", and dissonant sounds tend to choke.

When the steel is in tune, and the band is in tune, the tone of the steel miraculously gets better. That's been my experience

When your steel just doesn't sound like it should, check your tuning first. Don't start turning knobs on the amp until you're sure the steel is in tune.

Apologies in advance for the topic drift.

Paul, I suppose you are right about the topic drift, but at least one of the 13 secrets must be tuning.

I think one of the secrets is the label. I took the badge off mine one time and the tone just wasn't the same, so I screwed it back on.

I think the 13 secrets might be this?
2 thumbs
8 fingers
1 guitar
1 amp
1 volume pedal
=13

Larry you win the door prize almost. But a Emmons dose have a sound of its own good bad or ugly. I’ll vote good!

George how did you come up with the floating necki plus changer attached to neck only? Would love to here a sample sound.

i wonder if using wood like this with big knots running through the soundboard helps or hurts tone? soundboards are usually defect free quarter sawn boards. maybe it doesn't matter because the neck is the "soundboard."