The Steel Guitar Forum

Here in NC in the 80's, every drummer played like Jon Bonnham - which means, they had no sense of swing at all. We were playing a variety of old school music and it was murder to find even an adequate one. We were kind in on the ground floor of the "roots" thing and had a heck of a time with it. Since then, a lot of guys have surfaced and there is a lot more variety of drummer around - and some very very good ones at that. Texas, Virginia, New Orleans and Chicago always seemed to me, to have the best drummers for my taste. I suppose Nashville can be added to that list but I have not much experience with musicians from there.

I've been lucky as I've played with some really good drummers,bass players, singers as well. My Dad always told me "if your smart, you'll hang out with guys smarter than you and that's how you will learn". I guess I've been lucky to be the weak link in some bands because I'm not great but I'm better than I would be without some of the other players around me. Good drummers let the band roll. I like to think I'm still rolling. Slower, but still rolling.

Jerry Korkki wrote:I've been lucky as I've played with some really good drummers,bass players, singers as well. My Dad always told me "if your smart, you'll hang out with guys smarter than you and that's how you will learn". I guess I've been lucky to be the weak link in some bands because I'm not great but I'm better than I would be without some of the other players around me. Good drummers let the band roll. I like to think I'm still rolling. Slower, but still rolling.

Ditto here!

Bobby Nelson wrote:Here in NC in the 80's, every drummer played like Jon Bonnham - which means, they had no sense of swing at all. We were playing a variety of old school music and it was murder to find even an adequate one.

Every drummer in NC ? Wow thats a lot of drummers !

I live in NC , never had that experience. Regarding Jon Bonnham, he was a great drummer, if a JB clone is playing in a Country band, he's in the wrong band and vice versa.

One drummer I work with just happens to be a JB clone but he also is one of the best Country Drummers I have ever worked with. Very talented, also plays guitar, Steel guitar, Dobro etc...He does it all , loves all the music, he knows the music. He knows the songs.

Additionally many JAZZ trained drummers don't fit the simple style of Country music, it doesn't make them bad drummers just different styles, from a different genre.

The biggest problem with musicians, not just drummers, is Cross Hopping Genre's, not knowing the material. Not being familiar with the styles. That doesn't make them bad or poor musicians, they come from a different place. And yes, they should not be in a Country band, that is true, just like we should not be in a POP band or a JAZZ band, or certainly not a straight up Led Zeppelin cover band if Merle and Buck are our thing.

I have several great guitar player friends who can't feel the country groove, they pretty much don't like the music. But ask them to play George Benson tunes and they are rock solid. Yet they are still great players.

Maybe some of us should sit in with some other bands and see what they think about us ! I've done this a time or two with marginal results !

Steve Spitz wrote:Here in New Orleans, there are so many gigs in small clubs. An army of good sidemen come here for that reason. I couldn’t see not being able to work these rooms and make a living, or even get a second gig.

I guess that quickly weeds out those that don’t understand basic dynamics. Ive never stopped to think how lucky we are. It quickly weeds out anyone who doesn’t “get it”.

I really think the market dictates it. Generally speaking, anyone who consistently plays too loud stops getting gigs.

I should add that most music here is mostly “ traditional “ in some sense. People didn’t play super loud back in the day.

Steve, on a recent trip to New Orleans, my most important mission was to seek out Johnny Vidacovich, who is in my top tier of drummers. Luckily, I saw him play with David Torkanowsky and James Singleton.

But I disagree with the notion that drummers should just keep time unnoticed. My favorite drummers all add character to the music: Jim Keltner, Johnny V., Steve Gadd, etc.

I just read over on a drumming forum (yes some drummers can read AND type!)...
A post about how things were going great in his band until the lead guitar player bought a steel guitar, brings it to gigs , and now he has to play WAAAYYY LOUDER just to get over the awful steel player.

I'm definitely going to have to confront him about his post at rehearsal this afternoon!

Mike Neer wrote:My favorite drummers all add character to the music

Exactly!

They play the song; they play music. Their vehicle may be a drum, but their objective is to be a musician, not merely a drummer.

Mike Beley wrote:I just read over on a drumming forum (yes some drummers can read AND type!)...
A post about how things were going great in his band until the lead guitar player bought a steel guitar, brings it to gigs , and now he has to play WAAAYYY LOUDER just to get over the awful steel player.

I'm definitely going to have to confront him about his post at rehearsal this afternoon!

The four I worked with the most over the last 40 years were all superb "band players", with excellent dynamics and control. All could handle styles from rock to country rock to western swing-ish "jazz" with full sets, sticks or brushes, mic'd or not...

One - who uses a double-bass set - can play full-bore...or at least it *sounds* like it....with sticks, in a room with 4 unmic'd acoustic players and *never* be too loud.

And all are *really* good time wise.

I've found that "problem drummers" seem to fall into the following categories (solutions follow):

1. He(or she - assume either below) is the bandleader (quit)

2. He's somebody's brother/uncle/cousin (tough. Fire him. Or quit)

3. He's the only one that drives a vehicle large enough to carry drums ( see #2 and/or buy a new car yourself)

4. He's somebody's boyfriend/girlfriend (see #2)

5. He owns the PA (see #2 and learn how to budget)

6. He works at GC and gets everyone discounts (see #2 and #5).

7. Hes' a hired hand and sucks - and you're a hired hand (quit)

I've never seen a situation - in 50 years of gigging, managing bands, running sound, whatever - where there was a "problem drummer" situation that could not be solved.

Because if HE is really the problem you get rid of him.

But if he's crappy and locked into the band for some reason he's not the problem, you are - because you are staying in the wrong band.


Why?

Tony I guess you didn't read my post through. I was talking about the late 70's early 80's. As I said, things are different now. There were some great drummers still around who came through the old "chitlin' circuit" back then but, they were older and had solid gigs (mostly with beach music bands) and weren't available to kids in their late teens and twenties just starting out (we hadn't proved ourselves yet). and I never said Jon Bonham was bad - just that we weren't playing Zep, or any kind of hard rock. Southern rock and hard rock had descended upon us and that is not what we were doing. It was very hard to find a drummer in our stratosphere who had any idea what we we doing here in the 70's and 80's. we must have gone through 50 auditions and finally "settled" with a punk rock drummer who could fake swing a little if he had to. A yr later we canned him and hired a 17 yr old we shaped, who was better than any of the others and still has a rep around the old school CLT musicians of being a baddass. I guess I should have been more PC.

The drummer in my band is the best in Tampa Bay, but he's a bit of a nozzle. The bass player is his son & also the best in Tampa Bay. Funny thing is, they can both swap instruments & play equally well on the others, but rarely do because the drummer is left handed.

The problem I have in this town is bass players. They mostly suck & can't play country to save their lives. They have zero idea of what "in the pocket" means.

but he's a bit of a nozzle.

A...errr....what? "Nozzle"????

That's a completely new one on me. Please enlighten me - I like the sound of it!

Jim Sliff wrote:

but he's a bit of a nozzle.

A...errr....what? "Nozzle"????

That's a completely new one on me. Please enlighten me - I like the sound of it!

Maybe someone could pm the full phrase to you. It’s a good one to have in the epithetiary arsenal.

Bobby Nelson wrote:Tony I guess you didn't read my post through. I was talking about the late 70's early 80's.

Not arguing, but many of us have been playing Traditional Country since the 60's, with a drummer !

While there are many musicians who don't do Country well, there are just as many that "do". Is it easy to find them ? Probably not. And thats still true today.

But the other side of the coin is that there is just as many guitar players thinking they can just play relaxed blues licks and play in a country band. Actually more.

A very good guitar playing friend of mine said to me just last week that a reasonably good Steel player will play signature intro's and turn-arounds to classic songs and he is tired of Steel players who always say "you go ahead and play the intro's and turns, I'll just play fills".

Unfortunately, he's right. As Steel guitar players with the desire to play in a Traditional Country band, the intro's and turns are equally as important to the song as the lyrics, actually more important , as it sets-up the song to the listening audience. How many of us are doing this ? It doesn't make us great players, it makes us prepared players.

Ok, back to drummers who can't play Country again...

Its so hard to put in fills when there is so much clutter and too much drum fits into that category. At least in country, but there is an excellent local progressive blues based band that has a drummer that plays "behind that band" I love to listen to.

Maybe someone could pm the full phrase to you.

You could just do it yourself, you know.

Sheesh, there are 4 or 5 uses in the Urban Dictionary but none that make sense in that context. I'm hoping someone could specifically put it in "drummer context", since in thousands of gigs, sessions, rehearsals etc I've *never* heard it used.

Maybe it's a regional thing?

Roland!

Jerry Korkki wrote:I've been lucky as I've played with some really good drummers,bass players, singers as well. My Dad always told me "if your smart, you'll hang out with guys smarter than you and that's how you will learn". I guess I've been lucky to be the weak link in some bands because I'm not great but I'm better than I would be without some of the other players around me. Good drummers let the band roll. I like to think I'm still rolling. Slower, but still rolling.

Oh yes. Somehow, I've managed to surround myself with much better players than myself, drummers included, and I've learned a ton from all of them. I don't know how I've become so fortunate to be in this musical circle, but I'm staying till they run me out. I think as long as I keep learning & progressing, they'll let me stay.

Are there any Drummers that know how to play with a band?

I dunno. It's pure speculation on my part, but I suspect that despite there being many more drummers out there than pedal steelers, that the drummers find it easier to land a gig.

Mike,
You done good seeing those guys. We take great sidemen for granted sometimes. I agree as well about wanting more than a timekeeper. As a steel player partial to swing, you appreciate the great ones. The whole dynamics/volume thing is a given.

To be able to call someone who is legendary to play a job is really special.

Mike,You might appreciate this. Once in the 90s we hired Johnny V. For some gigs. He said:
“Everybody thinks I’m so busy, they don’t call me . I’m not that busy, CALL ME! “

Ive been really fortunate. A nobody playing with some unbelievable sidemen. To me,that’s a hell of a thrill. Plenty of great drummers in this city.