The Steel Guitar Forum

This is an interesting conversation, I 've owned 5 Franklin steels & 2 Franklin pedabros. I made money on every one I sold and paid through the nose not to mention my wallet for the one I have now which ironically is the very first one I ever ordered from Paul Sr. I was fortunate to buy it back over ten years later and it asn't changed from the day I sold it. They are fabulous instruments. When they first started selling n the forum they sold in 5 minutes, the last 2 didn't sell and I know one was literally in brand new condition. I love them but I have also layer a JCH Buck Reid set up and t was just as smooth & fast as anything I ever played too. Show Pro's are excellent and the MSA is going to be one of the original 3 again very soon..they do many things fight. Franklins will hold their value until they prove to wear out which so far..they don't...thanks Paul Sr.

hey bob i thought you were going to give the guitar because we are friends. good luck bob and hope you don't regret this move. see you soon.

Richard Delucchi wrote:hey bob i thought you were going to give the guitar because we are friends. good luck bob and hope you don't regret this move. see you soon.

Rich

No worries, I'm just testing the water:)

Hope you are OK?


bob

I guess what I don't understand, if there's still such a demand and a high market for these guitars, and I'm not just talking about Franklins, but why don't Paul Sr and Bruce Zumsteg, commission a very capable experienced builder to continue their legacies? With the way Franklins are designed and Zums are designed, does it really matter who builds them? That would be like Ford Motor company shut down their business years ago because Henry Ford died. Look at Tim Scheerhorn, now granted, he still builds a few guitars, but he had the National company build his standard stock of guitars, and no doubt, getting a very good cut of the profits. Ron Lashley didn't build every Emmons guitar by himself, someone else did the work too, it doesn't make it any less of an Emmons, it's the same with Zum or Franklin. With these prices for used Franklins , Paul Sr could still be making a big wad of dough with someone else building them, or am I to assume that that takes away the supply and demand scenario. I mean, what I'm hearing is that Franklin's are really worth the money not because of the supply and demand, so that tells me if they were still being built, the 10 grand or more would be what customers would still have to pay for one? I'm just saying, for that kind of money, I would absolutely be finding someone that could build my guitars for me.

How about Eddie Fulawka?
I doubt if there will be any more Fulawka guitars.

Dean, I completely agree with you.

Could be one of the reasons Franklins have the value is because Paul Sr. Was the builder and designer of each and every one.Thanks Sr. You did me a good one.

It's the design that's important to me. I mean don't get me wrong, having a Franklin built by Paul Sr is great, but his design is what makes it a Franklin, the research, materials and techniques used to build them, is what makes it a Franklin. Doug Earnest builds Stage One and Encores, for that matter, I built many of the Stage Ones' and Encores, they are still Zumsteel guitars, no different from what Bruce would build when he was building them. I would have no problem playing a Franklin built by another builder commissioned by Paul Sr, that used the same materials and building techniques as Paul Sr. Why kill a great product and legacy. Same goes for Zumsteels and other great guitars no longer being built.

I agree! As long as they were Franklin or ZumSteel designed parts and built accordingly, I would have no problem with buying a new one of either. I know it's a small market for steels as compared to other instruments, but, wouldn't it be nice to have a legacy of great steels continue. Somebody with some smarts and some money could surely do it as long as the original designers were up for it.

Erv Niehaus wrote:How about Eddie Fulawka?
I doubt if there will be any more Fulawka guitars.

I’ve heard that a guy has all of Eddies tooling but I don’t know if he is making anything yet. Another hurtle is that by Eddies own admission, he didn’t have blueprints for anything, it was all in his head. I’m really happy with mine, it made my late 70’s LDG feel like a toy. I’ve also never played a Franklin...

What helps make Franklin's so desirable is because Jr. plays one.

Dean Holman wrote:I guess what I don't understand, if there's still such a demand and a high market for these guitars, and I'm not just talking about Franklins, but why don't Paul Sr and Bruce Zumsteg, commission a very capable experienced builder to continue their legacies? With the way Franklins are designed and Zums are designed, does it really matter who builds them? That would be like Ford Motor company shut down their business years ago because Henry Ford died. Look at Tim Scheerhorn, now granted, he still builds a few guitars, but he had the National company build his standard stock of guitars, and no doubt, getting a very good cut of the profits. Ron Lashley didn't build every Emmons guitar by himself, someone else did the work too, it doesn't make it any less of an Emmons, it's the same with Zum or Franklin. With these prices for used Franklins , Paul Sr could still be making a big wad of dough with someone else building them, or am I to assume that that takes away the supply and demand scenario. I mean, what I'm hearing is that Franklin's are really worth the money not because of the supply and demand, so that tells me if they were still being built, the 10 grand or more would be what customers would still have to pay for one? I'm just saying, for that kind of money, I would absolutely be finding someone that could build my guitars for me.

I wonder if that would (and how far) bring down the values of the guitars currently in existence? Seems to me that it would.

Richard, my point in all of this is that some of these guys that speak highly of Franklin guitars, claim there are no other guitars like a Franklin. No other guitar plays, sounds or records like a Franklin. To me, that says that the supply and demand is not the reason these guitars are worth the money and that it's actually the guitar itself. So if that be the case, these guys that own Franklins, that didn't pay 10 grand, say that they would've paid 10 grand and are worth the money, tells me that that's what Paul Sr could be building for or have them built for now. Just like Tim Scheerhorn, his used resophonic guitars are going for more than what he sold them for. That's one of the reason's he quit taking orders and started building what he calls his wishlist guitars, he builds a guitar, and uses different types of wood or however he wants to build it, and he calls people on a list that's willing to pay 10 grand or more for it. So, that tells me if I had that kind of product and that kind of demand for it, for that kind of money, I would be finding someone to help build it. I know Paul Sr is up in years and probably not able to put in the time and work involved to build them, but I have to believe that someone capable and experienced could do it, especially if they were bringing in that kind of money. I would want my legacy of a great product to continue. This is my argument about Franklins, they're either worth what they are worth because of what they are and not just because Paul Jr plays them or the supply and demand argument. I'm not trying to be controversial but supportive of a legacy and the demand for a great product. [/quote]

Maybe a good comparison would be the Dumble amp
Scenario, they are limited in numbers but have big name players who like em.

Limited supply in musical instruments doesn’t automatically drive the price
Up, it has to also be a useful or inspirational tool.

Both of those instruments are not magical or play themselves, but they
Seem to deliver the goods for some players.

Greg

Paul Sr. did have an assembly deal with a prominent steel luthier a few years back, but it apparently hasn't come to anything of consequence to the community at large.

Depends on who is hot in Nashville at the time! I can remember no time ago all the bickering over a Zum and an Emmons very well. John went to a Zum and the whole steel community went crazy over them. JMHO

Dean; That's a great question and I've wondered it many times myself, it could still happen if the builders would consider the possibilities. Sho-Bud was continued by Gretsch for a while but Harley-Davidson was made by AMF and we all know how bad that was! Maybe being personally involved & responsible for the ones they could make is simply good enough for them.

"I wonder if that would (and how far) bring down the values of the guitars currently in existence? Seems to me that it would."

It's hard to know for sure, but the guitars would probably get known as "Paul Sr. Era" guitars , similar to "Pre Cbs" Fender or "Sampson era" Matchless amps, which may keep the price up on the originals,

Interesting topic

As for the original question on What my Franklin is worth
"Steel guitars west" has a nice Franklin for sale, D10 .
check it out!

That would be a good comparison , the Dumble's reason for high value is due to the fact nobody knows what capacitors etc. are in the design because he won't put them on the schematic and they're purposely filled in with hot wax or glue etc. so you can't figure it out. These steels can probably be reverse engineered...taken apart, measured tooled exactly by making templates then reassembled, more than likely reproduced like the originals.

When Bob Rains' health problems wouldn't allow him to continue building the Rains guitar, he sold the Company to Gary Carpenter and I don't think the quality has suffered any.

Mike Holder wrote:That would be a good comparison , the Dumble's reason for high value is due to the fact nobody knows what capacitors etc. are in the design because he won't put them on the schematic and they're purposely filled in with hot wax or glue etc. so you can't figure it out. These steels can probably be reverse engineered...taken apart, measured tooled exactly by making templates then reassembled, more than likely reproduced like the originals.

As a builder myself I can tell you Dumbles have long been fully documented. Caps are simple to measure FYI. The amps have been de-gooped to see signal flow. Jelle Welagan builds many

Cheers

The Infinity will be the next Franklin as far as supply/demand driven prices go.
And an exceptionally great guitar, of course....

Olli Haavisto wrote:The Infinity will be the next Franklin as far as supply/demand driven prices go.
And an exceptionally great guitar, of course....

The infinity is hands down the best playing, sounding, and most accurate tuning steel I have ever owned and I have had many.

Thanks setting me straight on that Mike, I was misinformed..then why are Dumble's so expensive?

Greg Derksen wrote:"I wonder if that would (and how far) bring down the values of the guitars currently in existence? Seems to me that it would."

It's hard to know for sure, but the guitars would probably get known as "Paul Sr. Era" guitars , similar to "Pre Cbs" Fender or "Sampson era" Matchless amps, which may keep the price up on the originals,

Interesting topic

As for the original question on What my Franklin is worth
"Steel guitars west" has a nice Franklin for sale, D10 .
check it out!

I did. 11.5K with only 5 knees. Guess that puts my 8/6 @ 12K!