The Steel Guitar Forum

David Mason wrote:I do have the impression it is the E9th tuning ONLY that is held to benefit from tuning...

From tuning? Surely you don't mean... nah. Couldn't mean that...

No Comment, but I can assure you I am an American, and have served for her.

Sorry, I was only trying to answer Darrell's question. It wasn't on the exact subject, but so far I have had six people ask for the copies. I'll try and keep on the subject from now on, so we're not foreigners. We just all be perfect.

Charlie McDonald wrote:

Jim Reynolds wrote:I don't think the strings on a piano are tuned straight up either, but not sure, never tried to tune one.

If 'straight up' means all strings are tuned with the needle pointing to zero on an electronic tuner, then it's straight up,
referred to as Equal Temperament--the notes are equally spaced out from one another, unlike deviations from 440 with Just Intonation.

Pedal steel is a 'special needs' instrument. Hi F# will work with some chords; another solution may be necessary for others.
Pedal steel probably is the most personalized of all instruments when it comes to tuning.
Thus the persistence of best ways to do it, unlike piano tuning, where ET is a necessary standard, not an option.

However, none of this should be a way to avoid practicing. It comes down to the bar. I'll bet Karen is satisfied with her tuning.

Have you checked this out ? In my experience piano tuners do not tune straight up. What is referred to a stretch tuning is more common.

Piano tuners do stretch the tuning, to compensate for the effects of pitch in the extremes of the compass.
So my temperament octave is 1202 or 1203 cents wide (favoring strong 5ths).
That amount of stretch will be replicated in the octaves above and below, increasing in width by the amount set in the temperament.
Thus the higher and lower notes sound more in tune (for reasons of physics I think) than if the instrument were tuned without stretch.

So I think technically you're right, compared to an electronic tuner. It's a unique case of equal temperament.

As I wrote, in my statement. I didn't think they were tuned straight up. Meaning they are not tuned at 440, which would be my understanding of the tuning on the steel. And the piano has normally two string be hammer, then allowing for the harmonics. I have NO true understanding of the piano, because I never tried to tune, only read about it. Thanks.

Jim,
My post about piano tuning was not directed at you. Your posts all come from personal experience and are therefore very valuable.

While pianos are tuned using stretch tuning, and thus not strictly ET, they are not tuned with the attempt to get beatless major thirds, which is the big obsession among steel players. The reason being that it is impossible for every major third on the piano to be beatless--and you need them all. And each only exists at one place, i.e. one pair of piano keys.

On steel you only need (if beatless thirds is what you want) to tune a few major thirds beatless--the ones found on the open strings and the pedal changes only, without using the bar. For the rest of the major thirds you "fret" up the neck with the bar, moving the same relationships among the strings up to other pitches.

But even on E9 steel if you want to make use of intervals and chords using other than the standard string groupings and pedal changes, too much adherence to the beatless ideal creates problems with some of those other harmonies.

I'm actually friends with two steely people I consider to be almost "parallel-universe" musicians - Mike Perlowin and Dave Easley. I can consider people like Paul Franklin, Jim Cohen to be at the pinnacle of what can be done through the absolute best pursuit of the right way to do it - but Easley, NOBODY cops those licks, they're from ELSEWHERE. And Mike claims it's studio tricks but NOBODY else has ever done them... and I could ask them how they tune, and it wouldn't help. PLAY in tune, it's what works best I think. So they say. Or they would, if I asked them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tm0Li41ZY0

David, your story here, reminds me of a story I read by Tom Bradshaw about a player. I can't remember his name of hand. He played years ago, and I think he is still living. He had been playing for years, and Tom wanted to do a story on him. Him and Wynn Stewart were place, close in CA, so tom went. He asked him what his tuning was, and he said he didn't know, Tom thought he misunderstood him, so he ask again, and again he said he didn't know. Tom then checked it and found what his tuning was. I was amazed. He was one of our older players. I'll get the magazine out later and post it. In was in the Steel Guitarist, that was out years ago. You may remember it. I sure enjoyed. Tom is a great man.

His name was Ralph Mooney.