The Steel Guitar Forum

I agree that a craftsman selling a guitar should demonstrate all the modes. Almost all electric guitar makers will do that. Front Both Rear pickups, clean and dirty. Not sure why lap steels don't do that as much other than perhaps having a preconceived idea of what their buyers want to hear.

Interesting what you say about mandolin David M Brown. Mandolin is a secondary instrument for me but I have a lovely sounding one. I was looking at different types of lessons online and eventually realised (indirectly) after listening to Caterina Lichtenberg playing classical mandolin that nearly all the tutorials seemed to be based on bluegrass and that as much as I appreciate that style it wasn't what I wanted to play on mandolin particularly, nor classical mandolin but simply songs that I liked that mandolin works for. I ended up getting a Hal Leonard book which basically teaches you how to play mandolin, not mandolin of any particular genre. I'm still learning from the book but when I am in the mood, I work out the notes for songs like the music from The Godfather film and I've found the Beatles' song Because sounds great on mandolin.

David Famularo wrote: I was looking at different types of lessons online and eventually realised (indirectly) after listening to Caterina Lichtenberg playing classical mandolin that nearly all the tutorials seemed to be based on bluegrass and that as much as I appreciate that style it wasn't what I wanted to play on mandolin particularly, nor classical mandolin but simply songs that I liked that mandolin works for. I ended up getting a Hal Leonard book which basically teaches you how to play mandolin, not mandolin of any particular genre. I'm still learning from the book but when I am in the mood, I work out the notes for songs like the music from The Godfather film and I've found the Beatles' song Because sounds great on mandolin.

Like you I am not a big fan of Bluegrass/folksy mandolin. I appreciate Bill Monroe and some other guys but overall, as it is now, it ain't my thing.

But that is what most all the info on mandolin is about.

For that matter, I "play" Dobro...but more for Hawaiian and jazz than Bluegrass.

I think it's great that you are working on playing whatever you like on mandolin.

Frankly, that's my real lap steel style...play whatever I want.

Sorry to get off topic.

re:
Hal Braun : "Almost all electric guitar makers will do that. Front Both Rear pickups, clean and dirty. Not sure why lap steels don't do that as much other than perhaps having a preconceived idea of what their buyers want to hear."

That may be true. I think a lot of newer players just do not know what else the electric lap steel has done since the 30's.

David M Brown wrote:

Terry VunCannon wrote:It is the Lap Steel Lunatics on facebook...very open to any style of players, and over 4800 members worldwide.

Thanks - whenever I decide to join Facebook, I'll have to check it out.

You don't have to join Facebook to view the Lap Steel Lunatics site on FB. It's public now. Anyone can read it, but only FB members can post there. I check it out occasionally, and I'm not on FB. I notice that the videos posted there are overwhelmingly the distorted, rock-blues-slide type. I can understand why. A beginner can easily tune to a major chord, kick on the distortion and slide from fret to fret playing 3-chord blues.

Doug Beaumier wrote:

David M Brown wrote:

Terry VunCannon wrote:It is the Lap Steel Lunatics on facebook...very open to any style of players, and over 4800 members worldwide.

Thanks - whenever I decide to join Facebook, I'll have to check it out.

You don't have to join Facebook to view the Lap Steel Lunatics site on FB. It's public now. Anyone can read it, but only FB members can post there. I check it out occasionally, and I'm not on FB. I notice that the videos posted there are overwhelmingly the distorted, rock-blues-slide type. I can understand why. A beginner can easily tune to a major chord, kick on the distortion and slide from fret to fret playing 3-chord blues.

I'm off to read the public pages!

Had to chime in on this.

I am not a fan of demoing an instrument covered in distortion. In my opinion its a bit silly.

Especially when people talk about how great the tone is. LOL

In my opinion. If you want to hear the true tone of the instrument try to demo as clean as possible.

Demo with tone rolled up/down. Demo each pickup etc. all clean.

If I wanted to hear a distortion pedal I'd look for demo's from pedal/amp manufacturers that market that with their product. So unless you have built in distortion with your Lap Steel Guitar please don't demo it to me at least.

Hell I don't like reverb or even EQ;s. If I can hear a DI sound/ flat amp sound I get a clearer picture of the "Tone".

Makes you wonder why do people talk about the great tone and then drown it in effects. Hmmm... imagine someone crafting a violin/mandolin/Dobro and saying "listen to the amazing tone" Struuuuuuuum. Distorted. LOL

When my new lap steel is ready for a formal demo, I will be doing one with some clean sounds, and one with some drive on it...to maybe reach both camps. I have learned a lot from watching this thread. Good stuff guys & gals.

Stefan Robertson wrote: I am not a fan of demoing an instrument covered in distortion. In my opinion its a bit silly.

Especially when people talk about how great the tone is. LOL

You should spend some time in the typical electric rock guitar world.

There are things such as you describe:

the endless search for "tone", but it's all just real or synthetic tube overdrive, often "scooped" to sound even less musical

being a "tube amp only" snob....then putting a floor full of SS/digital pedals in front of it.

bragging about "sustain" when anything sustains when plugged into an overdriven amp....and how long do they plan to hold one note anyway?

more care about gear than practicing

I don't mean to indict all rock guitar players ( I'm one) as being in this group, but there are enough of them to make you turn your amp to 11.[/quote]

There are very few people whose opinion on gear I trust. That is not to say that there aren't capable players, but just that my sensibilities and the little particulars that I am looking for are not often represented. Being in NJ, for steels guitars and accessories, I often had to find out on my own by going ahead and buying on my gut because there was no other way. Sometimes it doesn't work out.

With instruments and amps, it's my voice. I feel very lucky to have found instruments and amps compatible with my needs. Old Rickenbachers were the standard for tone for me, and in some sense everything was measured against my experiences with the FryPan and wartime B-6 I had. The richness of tone made them suitable in almost in any setting.

I love to use distortion and fuzz and cranked amps, too, though. It's good to hear how a guitar interacts in those settings, too. But I have to hear the player's hands first. If the touch isn't there, the tone will not be accurately represented.

With regard to pedals, this is an area where I am frequently disappointed, because often the demonstrator will play the same way with or without the pedal. With some pedals, like a ring modulator, you need to play according to the sounds generated. Drives me nuts.

Just a few thoughts.

"If the touch isn't there, the tone will not be accurately represented."

So true! It's all in the touch with the lap steel.

And as much as I love musical instruments for their own intrinsic beauty and interest, I do think it is much easier to buy instrument after instrument than to actually put all the time in you need to be good on an instrument. If one put a dollar value on every hour spent practicing/playing it would make the price of a instrument look like a few cents in comparison. Sometimes I think being focused on instruments is a bit of a distraction and an unconscious attempt to find a short cut to being great on an instrument. I also agree that there is a bit of luck/fate in finding the right instrument right for you.

David Famularo wrote: I do think it is much easier to buy instrument after instrument than to actually put all the time in you need to be good on an instrument. If one put a dollar value on every hour spent practicing/playing it would make the price of a instrument look like a few cents in comparison. Sometimes I think being focused on instruments is a bit of a distraction and an unconscious attempt to find a short cut to being great on an instrument. .

On another forum I saw this comment:

"The best upgrade for your gear is practice".

David M Brown wrote:

David Famularo wrote: I do think it is much easier to buy instrument after instrument than to actually put all the time in you need to be good on an instrument. If one put a dollar value on every hour spent practicing/playing it would make the price of a instrument look like a few cents in comparison. Sometimes I think being focused on instruments is a bit of a distraction and an unconscious attempt to find a short cut to being great on an instrument. .

On another forum I saw this comment:

"The best upgrade for your gear is practice".

Oooo that quote is SOOOOOO true. If I recorded doug jernigan on a cheap or expensive Lap Steel Guitar you would still say. Man oh man.Amazing. Maybe not a cheap pedal steel as if the pedals/levers go wrong it'd sound bad regardless.

Had to chime in on this.

I am not a fan of demoing an instrument covered in distortion. In my opinion its a bit silly.

Especially when people talk about how great the tone is. LOL

In my opinion. If you want to hear the true tone of the instrument try to demo as clean as possible.

Demo with tone rolled up/down. Demo each pickup etc. all clean.

If I wanted to hear a distortion pedal I'd look for demo's from pedal/amp manufacturers that market that with their product. So unless you have built in distortion with your Lap Steel Guitar please don't demo it to me at least.

Hell I don't like reverb or even EQ;s. If I can hear a DI sound/ flat amp sound I get a clearer picture of the "Tone".

Makes you wonder why do people talk about the great tone and then drown it in effects. Hmmm... imagine someone crafting a violin/mandolin/Dobro and saying "listen to the amazing tone" Struuuuuuuum. Distorted. LOL Laughing
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Stefan,

Everyone has their preferences and that's as it should be. However, there are times when the context in which you are playing lap steel can change the demands of the tone you're going for. Or to put it another way, one size doesn't always fit all.

A few weeks back I went to a blues jam session and wound up plugging my lap steels into the hosts amplifier, since I didn't bring my own rig. I don't recall what the amplifier was but it was squeaky clean and the combination of that amp and my lap steels (Oahu Diana and Ricky B6) was definitely not a winning combination for that particular setting. I made the best out of it, but playing through that rig in a blues jam with bass, drums, electric guitars and keyboards is not something that I would want to do again.
At the same time that doesn't mean that I like the tone of every lap steeler who plays blues music through an overdriven tube amplifier and/or overdrive pedals. Some players are definitely better than others! And while no amount of effects and/or overdrive can make up for poor technique and playing with bad tone, in certain musical contexts playing lap steel through a overdriven tube amplifier and/or overdrive pedals can be - IMO - be just the ticket to complement that style of music, Again, assuming that the player in question plays with solid technique, good tone, is tasteful, etc. I guess I just want to challenge the idea that ALL players who play blues music through an overdriven tube amplifier and/or overdrive pedals are not legitimate members of the lap steel community. Hopefully there's room under the big tent for us?

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Hey Rob

I use effects on recordings where desired/requested.

So I'm not disagreeing or disliking effects.

My point was to demo the "Tone" of the instrument that many manufacturers/stores do mistakenly is add effects.

If you really want to hear the "tone" of the wood and its range/problems etc. clean is the only way I can tell that gives you a true image about the instrument.

Effects will always colour the sound. and digital effects even more so.

Stefan,

Sorry, I guess I misinterpreted your post. Thanks for your reply . Makes sense now

No worries Rob. its all good.