The Steel Guitar Forum

Because "good bands" have become musically mature enough to not want to play with a prick who thinks he plays the most difficult instrument in the world to play so he needs to play it so damn loud the guitar players amp is clipping. One of the main reasons I learned steel guitar is so I wouldn't have to share the stage with an ahole steel guitar player.

James Sission wrote:Because "good bands" have become musically mature enough to not want to play with a prick who thinks he plays the most difficult instrument in the world to play so he needs to play it so damn loud the guitar players amp is clipping. One of the main reasons I learned steel guitar is so I wouldn't have to share the stage with an ahole steel guitar player.

Ha!!! Someone said something about calling a spade a spade.

Actually, steel players are some of the kindest musicians I've known, often the most opinionated, on occasion the most nostalgia-plagued.

The bands being disparaged here want steel guitar because they like that sound, that texture, that color. The bands that hire me are not looking for a classic style player, they are looking for someone to pad songs, add some fills, give that color, not the snappy licks...which is good, cuz I'M not that good. They are not real COUNTRY bands. Sometimes they are rock/pop bands. Often they are bands led by singer-songwriters. They are willing to sacrifice pay to have me along for the ride. But I live in the 'burbs WAY outside of Chicago, and any kind of steel player is fairly rare.

I'll take those "crappy" bands. Are we really gonna talk crap about bands that love the sound of a steel guitar and want to include it in their sound?? If so, what the hell are you guys whining about the "death" of steel guitar for? Your arrogance is at fault. These bands keep me playing & learning, and when I'm playing & learning, I'm a happy man.

Chris Walke wrote:

James Sission wrote:Because "good bands" have become musically mature enough to not want to play with a prick who thinks he plays the most difficult instrument in the world to play so he needs to play it so damn loud the guitar players amp is clipping. One of the main reasons I learned steel guitar is so I wouldn't have to share the stage with an ahole steel guitar player.

Ha!!! Someone said something about calling a spade a spade.

Actually, steel players are some of the kindest musicians I've known, often the most opinionated, on occasion the most nostalgia-plagued.

The bands being disparaged here want steel guitar because they like that sound, that texture, that color. The bands that hire me are not looking for a classic style player, they are looking for someone to pad songs, add some fills, give that color, not the snappy licks...which is good, cuz I'M not that good. They are not real COUNTRY bands. Sometimes they are rock/pop bands. Often they are bands led by singer-songwriters. They are willing to sacrifice pay to have me along for the ride. But I live in the 'burbs WAY outside of Chicago, and any kind of steel player is fairly rare.

I'll take those "crappy" bands. Are we really gonna talk crap about bands that love the sound of a steel guitar and want to include it in their sound?? If so, what the hell are you guys whining about the "death" of steel guitar for? Your arrogance is at fault. These bands keep me playing & learning, and when I'm playing & learning, I'm a happy man.

I think you are onto something with the comment 'nostalgia plagued'.



After seeing the 800th thread about Jerry Garcia as a pedal steel guitarist where every comment is just a rehash of the last 799 threads about him I think I have an idea why good new bands aren't looking for steel players.

I like Jerry, I like the Dead, I like that he inspired folks in the 70s that didn't know about country music to pick up the steel but if Teach Your Children is supposed to attract new young steel players forget about it. I like Jerry's playing but if I heard the song 'Teach Your Children' now it would never inspire me to want to learn the instrument.

I think good bands would definitely welcome a forward thinking steel musician I just think the community needs to move forward to the present.

I think that's actually happening, the music that inspired me to take up the steel guitar happened on great Wilco, Smog, Palace/Bonnie Prince Billy, Beach Wood Sparks records. Those are the records that inspired me to learn steel and that was my bridge to Buddy Emmons, Hal Rugg and Jerry Garcia's playing. I like it all but it would have never happened without current steel players.

Chris, my experience with steel players has been good overall. I probably should have toned down my post. Guys like Herb Steiner and Bobby Bowman helped me a lot and Herb still does. But in the same respect our singer likes steel guitar but he had a terrible run trying to hire one with any measurable amount of discipline. One was asked by the singer to turn down during the first set. He packed up and left at the first break. One quit after one gig because he didn't get any instrumentals. A third one decided the front man was an attention hog so he quit too. Then he called me asked me to start a band with him that was strictly steel guitar, no vocals. We play everything from Hank Sr. to Stoney LaRue and none them wanted to learn any new music that might challenge them as players. I guess since steel players are rare where you are and a dime a dozen here, I've been exposed to fair number of players that just want to play OLD country standards and feel everything else is crap.

I bought Winnie Winston's book and learned Bud's Bounce,Streets of Laredo,Shenandoah in addition to Steel Guitar Rag. I can count on one hand the times I played those with a band.Maybe they were crap bands(I didn't think so),but I got gig experience which is kind of a necessity if improvement is the goal.It depends on where you are (location,loca,etc…)you get the point.If you want to play out where you live,especially if you are asked,you give the situation what your skills allow and what those outfits want.Chris Walke is right,certain bands want the sound,tone and color just like CSN did(they were pretty good).Chris pointing out the irony of some complaining is dead on.If traditional country is the only"legitimate" outlet for steel guitar and there is no traditional country then the alternative speaks for itself.Like Chris I live where steel players are rare.So since candor is welcome on this thread,I'll suggest musicians play for the audience they present themselves to and not the approval of forums,this or any other.

One of the things I found amazing in an interview with Cindy Cashdollar published by forumite Andy Volk is how she spent pretty much the whole of the interview talking about learning. And I wonder if some here have lost sight of that part of playing in a band.

I play lead guitar & steel guitar, but I’m primarily a lead guitarist. I’m fortunate to play in bands that I think are made up of musicians who are better than me. That’s the best – being in the situation where I have to step up my game, stay on my toes, or fall on my face. It’s exciting to be included and humbling to be the potential weak link.

I also play with musicians who I feel are perfectly matched to me, skills-wise. That’s great fun, we try to push one another out of our comfort zones and raise our game together. I find the most camaraderie at this level.

I’ve also played with bands that make me feel like I’m the most skilled player of the bunch. Sometimes I don’t even like the music they cover or write all that much. And you know what? I love playing with those bands too. Not as an ego boost, but because it affords me more opportunity to experiment with my playing in a more forgiving scenario. And it offers me the potential to inspire them with what I can do - maybe they can learn something from me.

Whether the musicians I play with are better, the same, or worse than me, whether the music is what I like & choose to listen to or not, there is ALWAYS something to learn. I have my preferences regarding music, but I’ve played some of what I might consider the shallowest, predictable, bottom feeder music I’ve ever heard and still, there’s always a nugget to mine out of it, something worth learning, even if it’s just a lick in the bridge that makes me do something I’ve never done before. That goes for pretty much every song. And if the material is in fact too easy, I ask myself how I can make it more challenging and interesting to me. In my opinion, if you feel something is beneath you, you’ve stopped being open to learning in any situation you may find yourself in. And I think that’s a sad place to be as a musician. Obviously, this doesn’t necessarily apply to the real deal studio & touring pros, but the rest of us – beginner thru advanced players – should be able to find something to learn in any situation - even with the "crappy" bands.

I think the key is to stop thinking any band or music is beneath you. Those of you who think a typical lead guitarists’ ego is too big should maybe check your own.

Well now THAT was worth reading a second time! (For me, at least)

Some of my experience has been competition ....that is all the other players fighting with me rather than allowing me to fit in....maybe there is some intimidation with the steel...I don't know....you play a lick ...the guitar player feels some need to play over you or do his lick at light speed....there is no complimentary playing ....all this under the guise of playing country......the good news is it does'nt happen all the time.....but when it does...all the good memories fly out the door.....as you all know there is an art form to playing country music.....not all musicians come with the right paints.....

James Sission wrote:Because "good bands" have become musically mature enough to not want to play with a prick who thinks he plays the most difficult instrument in the world to play so he needs to play it so damn loud the guitar players amp is clipping. One of the main reasons I learned steel guitar is so I wouldn't have to share the stage with an ahole steel guitar player.

And then you became that steel guitar player! Ha! Hey, come one, you walked right into that one.

James Sission wrote:But in the same respect our singer likes steel guitar but he had a terrible run trying to hire one with any measurable amount of discipline. One was asked by the singer to turn down during the first set. He packed up and left at the first break. One quit after one gig because he didn't get any instrumentals. A third one decided the front man was an attention hog so he quit too.

See I don't know, James... I am always hesitant to nod to stories like that. I don't know your singer of course, but you just told of three run-ins, and the common element there is that singer (plus, he's a singer, and stereotypes exist for a reason).

I haven't had any of those kinds of personality problems with the people I've played with, where you had guys walking out and whatever — people have gotten along almost always. My issue has to do with an obvious correlation between people who seek out steel players, and not being able to do what I'd call a successful execution of a song even.

As much as we are told that the most important things are to be humble, respectful, accommodating, non-judgmental, open-minded, blah blah blah...we're not in kindergarten here, and you just don't get any points for kidding yourself when things sound embarrassingly bad. I'm not calling myself a genius on my instrument, but I don't think it makes me arrogant that I don't enjoy playing with people who are perfectly comfortable hacking it all the way through.

Why crappy bands want steel and good ones don't?
Because the steel is pigeonholed in the minds of most into twangy old fart country or dreamy hawaiian music. Both great styles, but not "current".

[quote="Duane Reese] I'm not calling myself a genius on my instrument, but I don't think it makes me arrogant that I don't enjoy playing with people who are perfectly comfortable hacking it all the way through.[/quote]

I guess the question is are they perfectly comfortable hacking their way thru, or are they simply still learning how to get thru? No one's born good at their chosen instrument or born knowing how to play in a band - we all need guidance. From more experienced players.

Chris Walke wrote:I guess the question is are they perfectly comfortable hacking their way thru, or are they simply still learning how to get thru?

I guess that depends on how long they've been at it, but when someone perpetually stays in the still-learning phase for years and doesn't really get any better, it's a good bet that they are just a hack. Some of the people I've played with have been at this for decades, and they sound like they are just starting out, I guess because they've made it through all this time and figure that they're as good as they need to be to get by (maybe they're right, in a sense). You'll have bands that always blow the same part of a song, players who muddle through songs they've muddled through a dozen times before, and nothing ever improves.

I think that with some of them, they think that the number of years played is proportional to how good they are, hence how entitled they are to be in a performing band, and fail to realize that even after 20 years, they still suck.

Chris Walke wrote:No one's born good at their chosen instrument or born knowing how to play in a band - we all need guidance. From more experienced players.

No, you need to be good enough to play out before you try to play out. The time and place for learning how to play an instrument is in the wood shed; or if you need guidance form more experience players, you can have that too — they're called music teachers. I agree that playing with a band is also something learned, and that's what open jams are for.

The kind of bands I'm talking about are not charitable engagements, where you bring people together and teach them how to play, like the Monkees — they are fully-functional entertainment groups, where no one needs help to get the job done. You know, the open road, not the driver's ed range.