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Topic: Finger pick difficulties |
Jordan Beyer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2016 9:25 pm |
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| I'm just wondering if there is a right or wrong way (by the book) to wear you picks? Fo instance I like to wear my fingerpicks as Paul is wearing them in the picture above with about 1/8in overhang that I strike with, but some other players have them bent so far that there nuckles are parallel to the strings and their finger tips are almost faceing back to them. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 5 Mar 2016 10:07 pm
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Both are right. Whatever gets you clean tone.
I suspect, but can't prove, that Paul's method gets you more power. I bend them all the way over, myself.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Ed Boyd
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 2 May 2016 9:08 am
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| Thanks! |
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Bryan Staddon
From:
Buffalo,New York,
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Posted 2 May 2016 9:12 am Picks
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I just tried getting them real close to the ends of my fingertips as in some of the photos above and I think I like it, thanks , I previously have been bending mine and letting them stick out a little too far I think. On a side note someone on the forum suggested heat shrink around the sides, I tried that and love it.
_________________
You are me as I am you |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 May 2016 3:42 pm
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Dave Magram, that is some impressive work you have done on blade angle.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Since the blade is curving, how do you measure an angle? Even the strike zone is not flat.
Maybe you could draw a picture and post it?
That Paul Franklin video is terrific. The cameraman must be a steel guitar player!
As the most high profile pick blocker, it is interesting to see how he holds his hands and strikes the strings. Other pick blockers (Joe Wright, Jay Dee, etc) tend to hold their hand flat suspended above the strings. Paul has fingers dragging, and the flesh of his hand down on the low strings. At least in this video.
It would seem your pick angle would need to adapt relative to how you hold your hand and how your fingers address the strings. And everyone has different hands and technique.
Nice work everyone.
John |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 5 May 2016 6:39 pm
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John,
Thanks for your nice comments about my “impressive work†measuring fingerpick blade angles. I only decided to trace the angle of my fingerpick blades years ago to make it easier to shape new picks for myself; it's not a research project. 
I simply traced the curve of the fingerpick blade on the blank back page of a book. Any book will do; the book has only to be thicker than about 1/4â€, the width of the fingerpick band (no, comic-books will not work).
A note-card on a small block of wood will work too—but note-cards are easier to lose than books.
After squaring up the pick-band to the edge of the book, I traced the curve of the pick-blade with a sharp pencil on the blank page.
That is how I traced Bobby Black’s actual fingerpicks.
In answer to your question, I use a protractor to measure the angle from the pick-band to the ~3/16†“strike zone†at the very tip of the blade.
I used the same basic method to measure Paul Franklin’s pick-blade angle in the screenshot, as shown below with Paul’s middle fingerpick. Of course, measuring a photograph of a fingerpick is not as precise as measuring the blade-angle of an actual finger-pick, but it does provide a starting point for shaping one’s fingerpicks.
 Paul Franklin’s right hand at 2:48 of “Time Jumpers - Dawn Sears - If you're gonna do me wrong do it right†http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cixiEyfeJSg
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I measured Bobby’s pick-blade angle at 35°, and Paul’s at ~26°.
I am not suggesting that one needs to use the same pick-blade angle as one’s musical idols; there are many different ways to hold one’s hands, as you point out.
But now perhaps newer players have some starting points to think about.
-Dave
Last edited by Dave Magram on 9 May 2016 11:02 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 5 May 2016 6:42 pm
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Those are bent over more than I prefer. But,,,, everybody's different. What works, works. Mine picks are formed to the way my hand addresses the strings.
_________________
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"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 5 May 2016 10:20 pm
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| John Billings wrote: |
| Those are bent over more than I prefer. But,,,, everybody's different. What works, works. Mine picks are formed to the way my hand addresses the strings. |
So are mine...
...with the (main of the dual) tips bent backwards to a little over 90 degrees on the band  |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 5 May 2016 10:55 pm
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Georg!
Pretty close to the way mine are. I have a bit more bend in them, but not much. Short blade on the thumbpick. I've tried bending them more, and it just doesn't work for me. Slows me way down, takes away a lot of power, and messes up my pick blocking.
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 6 May 2016 4:57 am
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John, I switched to these straight picks after having played with regular-shaped, pretty bent, picks for about a decade. Found it hard to avoid a slight "metalic slide" sound with bent picks, and bent picks also favored a more fixed picking-position (close to the PU) than I liked.
I did notice the lack of attack-power with bent picks too, although I had that pretty well under control after that many years of playing.
I trim down the thumb-picks till the side of my thumb can easily touch - mute - the strings while striking successive strings. Use the blue thumb-pick when I want a more "thumping" sound on lower strings, but use the steel thumb-pick most of the time since it is trimmed to create the same attack sound as the finger picks.
My straight finger-picks allow me to angle my hand and pick all strings in the same position - on same frets if you like - anywhere on the neck, which of course affect how the strings sound. I may for instance snap a string between the thumb-pick and any of the finger-picks, when I want that particular attack sound.
Playing with an angled hand - with fingers more parallel to the strings (pointing towards the bar instead of across the strings), also allow me to pick hard (or soft) with the pick-tip(s) and then continue the movement to touch the string lightly with the flesh on side of finger-tip on same finger, as a way to vary the attack-intensity and -sound. The "second pick-tip" then comes into action, meaning I can hit the string with one of the two tips, or both, and/or touch with the flesh, just by varying the angle of my hand slightly.
That's one way to vary between picking soft or hard with picks made of hard steel, which is what you see in those pictures.
Also no problem using straight picks when I angle my hand more "normal", although I can never bend my fingers as much as those who play with bent picks do. Not that I feel the need to either, but I do have to practice quite often to keep the right spring in my fingers for speed picking ... something I haven't kept up well lately.
That I use picks of hard steel and only polish the tips to perfection for my picking styles, is the main reason I still use the same picks after 25 years. I give them a light polish on the tips every few years - using tooth polish and paper, but otherwise those picks just last and last. Haven't had time, or need, to file and shape up my latest batch of steel picks.
All picks with the more regular - softer - alloys I have tested over the years, get scratched up at the edge and become useless within a few hours at most. Probably an indication that I like to hit those strings hard regardless of how I want them to sound.
To have mentioned it: the band sits above the finger nails, and the lower band-edge is rounded slightly to prevent them from biting into the cuticle if they slide down a little. The main tip is barely reaching past the finger tip when I wear them right.
I have never had any problems with them sliding off my fingers since the bands cannot slide past the nails, but they can of course feel a little loose down towards the tips at times and need a "push". |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 6 May 2016 7:14 am
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Dave,
I wear my picks just like you show.
I believe the picks in the picture are Dunlops, my favorite kind.
I like lighter gauge picks also, they're easier to shape and easier on the fingers. |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 9 May 2016 12:04 am
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Erv,
Paul Franklin's fingerpicks in the screenshot that I posted above look to me like "Jeff Newman" fingerpicks--based on the diamond-shaped holes in the pick-bands.
-Dave |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 9 May 2016 12:25 am
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I found this photo or screenshot of Buddy Emmons’ right hand that someone posted on the SGF years ago that I saved.
Using the same measurement method, it appears that Buddy angled his pick-blades around 34°.
-Dave |
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Kristen Bruno
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 9 May 2016 6:12 am
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I use Saddle finger picks for my fingers long fingers and a dunlop plastic thumbpick. I like them because the hold the pick on my finger without it sliding off. When you bend your finger to play the steel there is a natural "bulge" which occurs and that is what is trying to constantly push the pick off your fingers. The Saddle fingerpicks have a slot which comfortably accommodates the "bulge" comfortably. Trade off: They are a little longer and harder than I like (I prefer a softer brass) but I love the fact that I can concentrate more on practicing than constantly adjusting the finger picks as they slide off. I suppose when you get real good you csn adjust them quickly without having to stop your playing but I am just a beginner.
They also make a thumbpick but I don't care for it.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=281099&highlight=finger+picks
 [/img]
_________________
"Technology has given us the ability to repeat all the mistakes we have learned from history, but much faster, deadlier and with much greater accuracy" - KAB |
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 9 May 2016 6:41 am
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Here is the way I wear mine. I like the string to strike on the edge, right next to the tip. Seems I get my best tone that way.
Note, I don't play with my hands up in the air. The photographer just wanted to be able to see both hands.
_________________
AUTHORIZED PEAVEY, George L's, Goodrich dealer. I have 2 steels and several amps. My current rig of choice is 1993 Emmons LeGrande w/ 108 pups (Jack Strayhorn built for me), Goodrich OMNI Volume Pedal, George L's cables and Peavey Nashville-Session 112 or 115. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 9 May 2016 7:54 am
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Dave,
I believe you're right. |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 9 May 2016 10:06 am
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| Jordan Beyer wrote: |
| I'm just wondering if there is a right or wrong way (by the book) to wear you picks? Fo instance I like to wear my fingerpicks as Paul is wearing them in the picture above with about 1/8in overhang that I strike with, but some other players have them bent so far that there nuckles are parallel to the strings and their finger tips are almost faceing back to them. |
Hi Jordan,
I believe the differences in pick-blade curve you have noticed are the result of how the player approaches "blocking" of the strings to mute them after striking them.
Keep in mind that Paul Franklin uses pick-blocking exclusively. I learned how to pick-block from Joe Wright's instructional material, and in Joe's approach, many of the notes are blocked with the pads of one's index and middle fingertips.
With Joe's approach to pick-blocking, I realized that there needs to be a very precisely aligned gap between the pick-blade and one's fingertip to allow this blocking action to take place. Assuming that Paul pick-blocks the same way as Joe, this would explain the narrower pick-blade angle that Paul uses.
However, if you watch videos of Buddy Emmons, you will see that he held his hand much higher above the strings than Paul does, and did a lot of blocking with the tip of his right hand ring-finger. (Buddy confirmed this blocking technique in a long-ago column he wrote in Guitar Player magazine.)
This might explain why Buddy's pick-blade angle is wider than Paul's.
I couldn't find a closeup of how Doug Jernigan shapes his fingerpicks, but judging from how he flattens his hand and keeps it very close to the strings, I suspect that he curls his pick-blades around his fingertips, as you describe. From what I've heard, Doug spent a lot of time perfecting his unique style of blocking to be able to play as fast as he does.
-Dave
Last edited by Dave Magram on 9 Sep 2016 9:23 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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Matthew Walton
From:
Fort Worth, Texas
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Posted 19 May 2016 9:32 pm
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I'm a bit of a weirdo in this regard. I get acrylic overlays (not tips) done at a nail salon. I started doing this when I took classical guitar lessons, and I love it. I use a thumbpick for my thumb, which I can keep a couple of in my pocket. That way I'm always prepared!
James Taylor has a video with instructions for a different method/material than what I use, but a similar end result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BqISqpMRo8
_________________
If something I wrote can be interpreted two ways, and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, I meant the other one.
1981 MSA "The Universal" Bb6 S-12 9/5 | 2024 Excel Robostar Bb6 S-12 8/5 | 2009 MSA SuperSlide C6 S-12 | Peavey Nashville 112 |
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Jonathan Parrish
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2016 3:55 am
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A couple of photos in this post show finger picks that have little diamond shaped holes in them, as opposed to the round holes you normally see in a Dunlop style finger pick.
Does anyone know the brand of the picks that have the diamond shapped holes? Herb Remington gave me some years ago and those were the only picks I use. But now I can't seem to find them anywhere. Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Jonathan |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 7 Sep 2016 4:19 am
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These the ones? JF's. Available from www.jeffran.com
I've used these for about 30 yrs and this is an old photo with an old address on the pkg. These are nickel silver. At one time, they offered these w/chrome plating, but not for several years now. |
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 9 Sep 2016 4:48 pm
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This song by Dawn Sears is beautiful. So sorry we lost her. Paul Franklin was very good on his part, but just for difference, if you really want to hear this played, try and get Jeff Newman's Woodshed Workshop of it. I can assure you there is none better.
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2016 4:49 pm Jf Picks
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| I have been using the JF picks for years. They are the best for tone. I am teaching a couple guys right now and they don't like the picks either. I told them to buckle down and force themselves to use the JF picks I got for them. They will never get themselves a signature tone without the picks........ My finger picks bend around the tip of my fingers. Good for speed picking also. |
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 9 Sep 2016 5:22 pm
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Kevin, where did you get the JF pick? Did Fran start having them made? I would love to have some more, the close as I can come is National. Dunlaps are out
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 9 Sep 2016 11:17 pm
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The JF picks are great sounding - you can even get them over here (Gerry Hogan imports them). I got some to go with the Right Hand Alpha video, although I've since discovered Nationals which I find stay on better. But remember everyone's fingers are different and this is truly what-works-for-you territory. I used 0.0225" Dunlops when I started out (they were all I could find) and they got me going just fine.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 10 Sep 2016 9:30 am
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I was thinking of the Newman thumb pick. The JF can still be gotten from Fran Newman, but the thumb pick you can't. I really like them, they were the best I ever used. I now use Nationals.
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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